Trump fucks up again. Ukraine negotiation goes sideways

[MajorRewrite]

At least it’s obvious to everyone now that Trump and Vance orchestrated the Oval Office fight with Zelenskyy to give them a reason to cut off support for Ukraine.

Anyone pretending otherwise is truly a gullible MAGA sheep.

 

[ChloeTzang]

At least it’s obvious to everyone now that Trump and Vance orchestrated the Oval Office fight with Zelenskyy to give them a reason to cut off support for Ukraine.

Anyone pretending otherwise is truly a gullible MAGA sheep.

The sad thing is, many are happy this happened and applaud what Trump and Vance did. We have some on this board.

When one looks at what they are doing, neither of them are in any way genuine about "peace." What they want is Ukranian capitulation and Putin's victory. THat's becoming clearer and clearer as they string Zelensky along. He has to play ball as long as possible - that US military aid is very helpful - but as the headlines today read, its seems now that mere signing of that agreement is no longer enough to get US military aid flowing again. Now, it's conditional on Trump "seeing Zelensky's support for negotiations with Russia." Trump is toying with him. I doubt we will see that flow of US military aid restored, because Trump is intent on forcing Ukraine to capitulate, which won't happen.

The more I watch this going down, the more I think it's possible that Trump really is deeply pro-Putin. Is he compromised? Don't know, but to's hard to arge that everything he is doing here is against Ukraine's interests. It would appear he has a very different view of what America's foreign policy should be, and I think at some point Ukraine and Europe are going to have to say "this relationship is over."

CIA Chief: US Halts Arms and Intel to Ukraine After Oval Office Clash
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/48316

WSJ: Suspension of US aid to Ukraine will last until Trump sees Zelenskyy’s support for talks with Russia
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/03/5/7501383/

Trump and Russia - the KISS rule - Trump admires Putin
https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/investigated-trump-why-pro-putin-sex-tape-3566497?ITO=newsnow

 

[Neanderthal247]

https://media4.giphy.com/media/cYa8BWcyEWxZFLa6q6/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952cz0h43brlmdms38guj2ie2efdsg2tt8etjjxqlaq&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[ChloeTzang]

Also:

We. Told. Them. So.

Mea culpa. You were right. I was wrong.

I literally would never have believed Trump could betray Ukraine the way he has.

 

[ChloeTzang]

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

View attachment 2507053

Indeed. The evidence is becoming more real than circumstantial. When will it be enough for the idiots in congress to understand?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Indeed. The evidence is becoming more real than circumstantial. When will it be enough for the idiots in congress to understand?

Took Chloe a long enough time...think Republicans in Congress are any smarter?

 

[ChloeTzang]

One of the biggest Ukrainian Telegram channels today after Trump cuts off intelligence sharing, stating the increasingly popular sentiment that the US has joined Russia.

Everything Trump is doing now will result in thousands of Ukrainian deaths. Ukraine was once the most pro-American nation in Europe.

I think with this, and with Trump halting military aid and playing cat and mouse with Zelemsky over "negotiations," it's more than obvious that Trump has allied himself with Putin. All his bullshit about "peace" is simply playing with words while he attempts to coerce Ukraine inti capitulation on behalf of Putin.

 

[ll74]

One of the biggest Ukrainian Telegram channels today after Trump cuts off intelligence sharing, stating the increasingly popular sentiment that the US has joined Russia.

Everything Trump is doing now will result in thousands of Ukrainian deaths. Ukraine was once the most pro-American nation in Europe.

I think with this, and with Trump halting military aid and playing cat and mouse with Zelemsky over "negotiations," it's more than obvious that Trump has allied himself with Putin. All his bullshit about "peace" is simply playing with words while he attempts to coerce Ukraine inti capitulation on behalf of Putin.

View attachment 2507066

Anyone who thinks that 47 isn't aligning the US with Russia is a fucking idiot.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

One of the biggest Ukrainian Telegram channels today after Trump cuts off intelligence sharing, stating the increasingly popular sentiment that the US has joined Russia.

Everything Trump is doing now will result in thousands of Ukrainian deaths. Ukraine was once the most pro-American nation in Europe.

I think with this, and with Trump halting military aid and playing cat and mouse with Zelemsky over "negotiations," it's more than obvious that Trump has allied himself with Putin. All his bullshit about "peace" is simply playing with words while he attempts to coerce Ukraine inti capitulation on behalf of Putin.

View attachment 2507066

How can the American congress sit idly by? So much for peace.

 

[ChloeTzang]

How Trump Is Killing the U.S. Defense Industry​

It turns out that abandoning allies and tossing out security guarantees is bad for business.​

It may seem obvious that governments should think through their policies before implementing them; if they don’t, they risk encountering the dreaded law of unintended consequences. That’s exactly what’s happening in the United States’ defense-industrial policy. While U.S. defense stocks are slumping, European defense stocks are rising quickly because the markets have concluded that those governments will be spending lots more on defense. And every government around the world knows what happened to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week in the Oval Office.

The conclusion that many leaders will draw from the altercation that U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance had with Zelensky is that U.S. security guarantees—a key reason why countries tend to buy U.S. weapons—are not going to be a convincing argument anymore. So far, Trump’s efforts to “make America great again” have been miserable for that all-important U.S. power pillar: the defense industry. Ouch. Since Trump’s inauguration, shares in the six biggest U.S. defense companies have fallen by an average of 4 percent. Meanwhile, shares of Europe’s largest defense groups—including Germany’s Rheinmetall—“have surged” by almost 40 percent in the same period, the Financial Times reported on Feb. 25.

The market is, as those in the business like to say, always right. And crucially, the market is not ideological. In recent days and weeks, the markets have been watching the announcements from Washington and unsurprisingly concluded that the Trump administration wants to slash the defense budget. European countries, meanwhile, are getting serious about growing their armed forces. At the summit in London hosted by British Prime Minister Keir Starmer in support of Zelensky, the leaders agreed to provide more military support for Ukraine and create a “coalition of the willing” to help defend the country in its war against Russia.

Because European governments can’t assume that the United States has their backs anymore, they will certainly do their best to buy European. And these days, European buyers have to consider the risk of Washington blocking use of U.S.-made arms against Russia. That also means adopting knowledge from the Russia-Ukraine war. Many Ukrainian defense companies—until recently not top performers on the global arms market—possess priceless knowledge, given that Ukraine has the continent’s most battle-tested military. U.S. defense manufacturers would have that ability, too. Except - Trump has not cut intelligence-sharing with Ukraine, and it's like that Ukraine will recipricate give the uncertainty around US intentions. Who knows - we can no longer rule out Trump deciding to attack Ukraine.

But the markets believe that they know where things are headed: Since late January, Lockheed Martin’s share price has dropped from nearly $500 to just under $450.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/03/04/trump-zelensky-vance-ukraine-defense-arms/

 

[ChloeTzang]

I asked Grok too, just to see.....



Assessing the likelihood that Donald Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, based on publicly available information from 1980 onward, requires analyzing a mix of financial ties, personal interactions, political behavior, and circumstantial evidence. This isn’t about definitive proof—none exists in the public domain—but about estimating probability based on patterns. Trump’s consistent refusal to criticize Putin, even when pressed (e.g., the 2018 Helsinki summit where he sided with Putin over U.S. intelligence), alongside his frequent attacks on allies like NATO members, is a key behavioral signal. Let’s break it down.

Historical and Financial Ties

Trump’s connections to Russia date back to at least 1987, when he visited Moscow at the invitation of Soviet officials. Former KGB agent Yuri Shvets has claimed Trump was targeted then due to his ego and financial vulnerabilities—traits Russian intelligence exploits. Public records show Trump’s businesses relied heavily on Russian money over decades. In 2008, Donald Jr. said, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” and in 2014, Eric Trump reportedly told a golf writer, “We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” Deals with figures like Felix Sater (tied to Russian organized crime) and the Bayrock Group, plus property sales to oligarchs like Dmitry Rybolovlev (who bought a Trump property for $95 million in 2008), suggest a dependency that could create leverage. Deutsche Bank, which loaned Trump hundreds of millions when U.S. banks wouldn’t, was also laundering Russian money during that period.

Intelligence and Investigations

The 2017 U.S. Intelligence Community assessment concluded Putin authorized interference in the 2016 election to favor Trump. The Mueller Report documented over 100 Trump campaign-Russia contacts but didn’t prove criminal conspiracy—partly because key figures like Paul Manafort (who shared polling data with a Russian operative) didn’t cooperate. The unverified Steele Dossier alleges kompromat from Trump’s 2013 Moscow trip, a claim echoed by speculation about earlier visits. Leaked Kremlin papers reported by The Guardian in 2021 suggest Putin approved a 2016 operation to back Trump, viewing him as exploitable. A classified binder of Russia intelligence went missing after Trump’s term, per Reuters in 2023, raising questions about what he might be hiding.

Behavioral Evidence

Trump’s refusal to criticize Putin stands out. He’s called him “highly respected,” avoided condemning actions like the 2020 Navalny poisoning, and in 2024, per Bob Woodward’s book War, reportedly spoke to Putin secretly multiple times post-presidency. Contrast this with his attacks on NATO, calling it “obsolete,” or his criticisms of allies like Germany and Canada. This pattern aligns with Russian interests—weakening Western alliances—while he’s never once directly challenged Putin, even when it would’ve been politically advantageous.

Counterarguments

Alternative explanations exist: Trump’s pro-Russia stance could stem from ideological alignment (admiration for “strongmen”), naivety, or a desire to reset U.S.-Russia relations, as Obama once attempted. His business ties might reflect opportunism, not compromise. The lack of a public “smoking gun”—like a recorded order from Putin—means we’re dealing with inference, not certainty.

Estimation

Weighing this, the evidence tilts heavily toward compromise. The financial ties are long, deep, and opaque; intelligence suggests Russian intent; and Trump’s behavior—never criticizing Putin while attacking allies—is too consistent to dismiss. The “useful idiot” scenario, where he’s unwittingly pliable due to ego and debts, fits as well as a witting asset theory. Adjusting for uncertainty (no hard proof, possible innocent motives), I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end (85%) due to the cumulative weight of historical patterns, financial incentives, and behavioral anomalies. This leaves a 15-25% chance he’s not, reflecting the gap in conclusive evidence. On a 1-100 scale, I’d peg it at 85.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

How Trump Is Killing the U.S. Defense Industry​

It turns out that abandoning allies and tossing out security guarantees is bad for business.​

It may seem obvious that governments should think through their policies before implementing them; if they don’t, they risk encountering the dreaded law of unintended consequences. That’s exactly what’s happening in the United States’ defense-industrial policy. While U.S. defense stocks are slumping, European defense stocks are rising quickly because the markets have concluded that those governments will be spending lots more on defense. And every government around the world knows what happened to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky last week in the Oval Office.

The conclusion that many leaders will draw from the altercation that U.S. President Donald Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance had with Zelensky is that U.S. security guarantees—a key reason why countries tend to buy U.S. weapons—are not going to be a convincing argument anymore. So far, Trump’s efforts to “make America great again” have been miserable for that all-important U.S. power pillar: the defense industry. Ouch. Since Trump’s inauguration, shares in the six biggest U.S. defense companies have fallen by an average of 4 percent. Meanwhile, shares of Europe’s largest defense groups—including Germany’s Rheinmetall—“have surged” by almost 40 percent in the same period, the Financial Times reported on Feb. 25.

The market is, as those in the business like to say, always right. And crucially, the market is not ideological. In recent days and weeks, the markets have been watching the announcements from Washington and unsurprisingly concluded that the Trump administration wants to slash the defense budget. European countries, meanwhile, are getting serious about growing their armed forces. At the summit in London hosted by British Prime Minister Keir Starmer in support of Zelensky, the leaders agreed to provide more military support for Ukraine and create a “coalition of the willing” to help defend the country in its war against Russia.

Because European governments can’t assume that the United States has their backs anymore, they will certainly do their best to buy European. And these days, European buyers have to consider the risk of Washington blocking use of U.S.-made arms against Russia. That also means adopting knowledge from the Russia-Ukraine war. Many Ukrainian defense companies—until recently not top performers on the global arms market—possess priceless knowledge, given that Ukraine has the continent’s most battle-tested military. U.S. defense manufacturers would have that ability, too. Except - Trump has not cut intelligence-sharing with Ukraine, and it's like that Ukraine will recipricate give the uncertainty around US intentions. Who knows - we can no longer rule out Trump deciding to attack Ukraine.

But the markets believe that they know where things are headed: Since late January, Lockheed Martin’s share price has dropped from nearly $500 to just under $450.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/03/04/trump-zelensky-vance-ukraine-defense-arms/

It goes beyond defense contractors. Farmers get screwed. Small businesses get screwed. Hourly workers get screwed. Every family gets screwed. Stay tuned, more to come as we roll into America's "golden age". Uh huh.

 

[ChloeTzang]

It goes beyond defense contractors. Farmers get screwed. Small businesses get screwed. Hourly workers get screwed. Every family gets screwed. Stay tuned, more to come as we roll into America's "golden age". Uh huh.

It's wild. I'm trying to think what else he could do if he wanted to screw over the economy and I can't think of much. It all just seems like random screwing around

The cutting the Feds and deportations I'm onboard with, but everything else is just random insanity.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

I asked Grok too, just to see.....

View attachment 2507191

Assessing the likelihood that Donald Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, based on publicly available information from 1980 onward, requires analyzing a mix of financial ties, personal interactions, political behavior, and circumstantial evidence. This isn’t about definitive proof—none exists in the public domain—but about estimating probability based on patterns. Trump’s consistent refusal to criticize Putin, even when pressed (e.g., the 2018 Helsinki summit where he sided with Putin over U.S. intelligence), alongside his frequent attacks on allies like NATO members, is a key behavioral signal. Let’s break it down.

Historical and Financial Ties

Trump’s connections to Russia date back to at least 1987, when he visited Moscow at the invitation of Soviet officials. Former KGB agent Yuri Shvets has claimed Trump was targeted then due to his ego and financial vulnerabilities—traits Russian intelligence exploits. Public records show Trump’s businesses relied heavily on Russian money over decades. In 2008, Donald Jr. said, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” and in 2014, Eric Trump reportedly told a golf writer, “We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” Deals with figures like Felix Sater (tied to Russian organized crime) and the Bayrock Group, plus property sales to oligarchs like Dmitry Rybolovlev (who bought a Trump property for $95 million in 2008), suggest a dependency that could create leverage. Deutsche Bank, which loaned Trump hundreds of millions when U.S. banks wouldn’t, was also laundering Russian money during that period.

Intelligence and Investigations

The 2017 U.S. Intelligence Community assessment concluded Putin authorized interference in the 2016 election to favor Trump. The Mueller Report documented over 100 Trump campaign-Russia contacts but didn’t prove criminal conspiracy—partly because key figures like Paul Manafort (who shared polling data with a Russian operative) didn’t cooperate. The unverified Steele Dossier alleges kompromat from Trump’s 2013 Moscow trip, a claim echoed by speculation about earlier visits. Leaked Kremlin papers reported by The Guardian in 2021 suggest Putin approved a 2016 operation to back Trump, viewing him as exploitable. A classified binder of Russia intelligence went missing after Trump’s term, per Reuters in 2023, raising questions about what he might be hiding.

Behavioral Evidence

Trump’s refusal to criticize Putin stands out. He’s called him “highly respected,” avoided condemning actions like the 2020 Navalny poisoning, and in 2024, per Bob Woodward’s book War, reportedly spoke to Putin secretly multiple times post-presidency. Contrast this with his attacks on NATO, calling it “obsolete,” or his criticisms of allies like Germany and Canada. This pattern aligns with Russian interests—weakening Western alliances—while he’s never once directly challenged Putin, even when it would’ve been politically advantageous.

Counterarguments

Alternative explanations exist: Trump’s pro-Russia stance could stem from ideological alignment (admiration for “strongmen”), naivety, or a desire to reset U.S.-Russia relations, as Obama once attempted. His business ties might reflect opportunism, not compromise. The lack of a public “smoking gun”—like a recorded order from Putin—means we’re dealing with inference, not certainty.

Estimation

Weighing this, the evidence tilts heavily toward compromise. The financial ties are long, deep, and opaque; intelligence suggests Russian intent; and Trump’s behavior—never criticizing Putin while attacking allies—is too consistent to dismiss. The “useful idiot” scenario, where he’s unwittingly pliable due to ego and debts, fits as well as a witting asset theory. Adjusting for uncertainty (no hard proof, possible innocent motives), I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end (85%) due to the cumulative weight of historical patterns, financial incentives, and behavioral anomalies. This leaves a 15-25% chance he’s not, reflecting the gap in conclusive evidence. On a 1-100 scale, I’d peg it at 85.

Starting to understand that maybe the Steele document wasn't all that far fetched?

Yeah yeah yeah, sure he did. Another left wing fantasy, like the Steele Dossier.....

What I find truly fascinating is the alternate reality many on the left live in. Like denying the Biden's are criminals or believing Trump is Hitler. Really weird.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

It's wild. I'm trying to think what else he could do if he wanted to screw over the economy and I can't think of much. It all just seems like random screwing around

The cutting the Feds and deportations I'm onboard with, but everything else is just random insanity.

What other stupid pet tricks could he do? Privatize most of the services provided by government. Private equity would love to get their greedy hands on social security, Medicare (getting there slowly with part c), va, and a few more agencies that manage funds. And look how well private equity has done for some businesses. The focus is on return, not providing services.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The cutting the Feds and deportations I'm onboard with, but everything else is just random insanity.

And your wrong on both of these files too.

Of course tightening illegal immigration is a problem for the US, but Trump killed the bipartisan bill that would have fixed a lot of issue. Now, you're actually deporting less than Biden did. Every single illegal is now hiding.

Cutting the Federal Employees is always a good exercise to take. But you, like Clinton, study the roles get reports, and then figure which jobs are no longer necessary. You don't go firing people on day two.


Who knows, maybe you'll see the light of reality, maybe not.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Did anyone think this through? Some two-thirds of European defense procurement is currently spent on American weapons. If the U.S. indeed switched off the targeting of HIMARS in Ukraine — a country fighting a war that not just Kyiv, but most of Europe, consider existential — buying any American technology will soon be considered a security risk. Europe is about to rearm with European weapons. You don't buy weapons from the bad guys.

And by allying the USA with Putin and Russia, Trump is fast turning the USA into the other bad guy. I guess we now have Oceania, Eurasia and Eastasia.....

 

[icanhelp1]

I asked Grok too, just to see.....

View attachment 2507191

Assessing the likelihood that Donald Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, based on publicly available information from 1980 onward, requires analyzing a mix of financial ties, personal interactions, political behavior, and circumstantial evidence. This isn’t about definitive proof—none exists in the public domain—but about estimating probability based on patterns. Trump’s consistent refusal to criticize Putin, even when pressed (e.g., the 2018 Helsinki summit where he sided with Putin over U.S. intelligence), alongside his frequent attacks on allies like NATO members, is a key behavioral signal. Let’s break it down.

Historical and Financial Ties

Trump’s connections to Russia date back to at least 1987, when he visited Moscow at the invitation of Soviet officials. Former KGB agent Yuri Shvets has claimed Trump was targeted then due to his ego and financial vulnerabilities—traits Russian intelligence exploits. Public records show Trump’s businesses relied heavily on Russian money over decades. In 2008, Donald Jr. said, “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,” and in 2014, Eric Trump reportedly told a golf writer, “We have all the funding we need out of Russia.” Deals with figures like Felix Sater (tied to Russian organized crime) and the Bayrock Group, plus property sales to oligarchs like Dmitry Rybolovlev (who bought a Trump property for $95 million in 2008), suggest a dependency that could create leverage. Deutsche Bank, which loaned Trump hundreds of millions when U.S. banks wouldn’t, was also laundering Russian money during that period.

Intelligence and Investigations

The 2017 U.S. Intelligence Community assessment concluded Putin authorized interference in the 2016 election to favor Trump. The Mueller Report documented over 100 Trump campaign-Russia contacts but didn’t prove criminal conspiracy—partly because key figures like Paul Manafort (who shared polling data with a Russian operative) didn’t cooperate. The unverified Steele Dossier alleges kompromat from Trump’s 2013 Moscow trip, a claim echoed by speculation about earlier visits. Leaked Kremlin papers reported by The Guardian in 2021 suggest Putin approved a 2016 operation to back Trump, viewing him as exploitable. A classified binder of Russia intelligence went missing after Trump’s term, per Reuters in 2023, raising questions about what he might be hiding.

Behavioral Evidence

Trump’s refusal to criticize Putin stands out. He’s called him “highly respected,” avoided condemning actions like the 2020 Navalny poisoning, and in 2024, per Bob Woodward’s book War, reportedly spoke to Putin secretly multiple times post-presidency. Contrast this with his attacks on NATO, calling it “obsolete,” or his criticisms of allies like Germany and Canada. This pattern aligns with Russian interests—weakening Western alliances—while he’s never once directly challenged Putin, even when it would’ve been politically advantageous.

Counterarguments

Alternative explanations exist: Trump’s pro-Russia stance could stem from ideological alignment (admiration for “strongmen”), naivety, or a desire to reset U.S.-Russia relations, as Obama once attempted. His business ties might reflect opportunism, not compromise. The lack of a public “smoking gun”—like a recorded order from Putin—means we’re dealing with inference, not certainty.

Estimation

Weighing this, the evidence tilts heavily toward compromise. The financial ties are long, deep, and opaque; intelligence suggests Russian intent; and Trump’s behavior—never criticizing Putin while attacking allies—is too consistent to dismiss. The “useful idiot” scenario, where he’s unwittingly pliable due to ego and debts, fits as well as a witting asset theory. Adjusting for uncertainty (no hard proof, possible innocent motives), I estimate a 75-85% likelihood Trump is a Putin-compromised asset, leaning toward the higher end (85%) due to the cumulative weight of historical patterns, financial incentives, and behavioral anomalies. This leaves a 15-25% chance he’s not, reflecting the gap in conclusive evidence. On a 1-100 scale, I’d peg it at 85.

You could use the same metric for Biden and China, plus, the Biden crime family was actually involved in Ukraine corruption.

 

[icanhelp1]

And your wrong on both of these files too.

Of course tightening illegal immigration is a problem for the US, but Trump killed the bipartisan bill that would have fixed a lot of issue. Now, you're actually deporting less than Biden did. Every single illegal is now hiding.

Cutting the Federal Employees is always a good exercise to take. But you, like Clinton, study the roles get reports, and then figure which jobs are no longer necessary. You don't go firing people on day two.


Who knows, maybe you'll see the light of reality, maybe not.

The senate bill would have codified more of the same.

HR-1 was a better bill but democrat propagandist went with promoting the senate bill and wouldn't even debate the house bill.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

You could use the same metric for Biden and China, plus, the Biden crime family was actually involved in Ukraine corruption.

Well, why don't you do it.See what Grok comes back with. Too lazy?, too dumb to know how?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

The senate bill would have codified more of the same.

Nothing passed, because Trump said no....if it had passed half his campaign to get elected would have disappeared. He killed the bill to help himself, not the country.

 

[icanhelp1]

Nothing passed, because Trump said no....if it had passed half his campaign to get elected would have disappeared. He killed the bill to help himself, not the country.

Biden was an incompetent president. Trump secured the border where Biden said give him the authority and he'll do it. Biden has been a liar since his days as a junior senator.

 

[Politruk]

Biden was an incompetent president. Trump secured the border where Biden said give him the authority and he'll do it. Biden has been a liar since his days as a junior senator.

Biden was an incomparably better and more honest POTUS than Trump -- and his senile mind is still sharper than Trump's. You know I'm right.

The border did not need securing. Immigration is a non-problem and that includes illegal immigration.