Troll Poll

[Technodivinitas]

Just curious- I bet it's way less than 90%...

 

[Ms_Black]

You know, last night this issue came up at our local munch. We were talking about how the shrink on love line always tells people involved in BDSM them they were abused and should seek help.

After quite a bit of discussion we decided that maybe there was just a hell of a lot of people who had been abused in the world and that some of those people just happened to dig BDSM.

I would say that probably 80% of the worlds' population has been abused in some way (don't freak here, remember that most of the worlds population is NOT in the US and live in countries where strange things go on). But probably we could all agree that not that many people were involved in BDSM

Ms. B

 

[Bandit58]

I have been emotionally abused, but now I realise I had sub tendencies before I married at 19.....he wasn't a Dom but he was controlling I believe because of his low self esteem

 

[Etoile]

the shrink on love line always tells people involved in BDSM them they were abused and should seek help.

Really? I haven't listened to Loveline since I was in high school (so it's been at least 7 years) but I would have thought Dr. Drew would be more open-minded than that. I can't actually find on his website what his degree is, but I always figured that an "addiction medicine specialist" was more than just a shrink, but had some medical training as well.

 

[FungiUg]

Just curious- I bet it's way less than 90%...

Less than 90% yes, but still way too high for my liking.

Not that I think abuse victims are particularly prevalent in BDSM, but rather that they are too prevalent in our society as a whole for my liking.

I was abused as a child -- not sexually, but physically, emotionally and spiritually. Sad to say my sisters also copped sexual abuse. I have, of course, sought help to deal with this and other issues, and I'm not shy about going to counselling when I need to.

In fact, when I started getting into BDSM seriously, my lover and I sought counselling to help deal with the fact that we were headed in a direction that my lover didn't wish to go, and she was extremely reluctant to get involved. At the same time neither of us wished to break up (I considered it very carefully, as my lover is NOT submissive, but... I wanted to have my cake and eat it too.)

It turned out that much of the problem was around education and understanding. (I'm sure that like most relationship issues, communication is always up there!) She had gone out and read up on BDSM and what was involved, and didn't want to get into what amounted to a "fetishist" lifestyle. You know, the leather, the whips, the chains, the feather dusters...

Anyway, suffice to say that the counsellor was neutral, neither pro no against, and didn't seem to think the issue was as insurmountable as we felt. He did say that "it wasn't going to go away, so ignoring it wasn't a viable option." Which made my lover think hard.

What he didn't say was "you are sick, and you need help. It's all due to abuse."

In fact, a lot of the hard thinking I did when I got into it was around the abuse issue. I didn't want to perpetuate something that I felt was very wrong. I have experienced abuse, and BDSM play is NOT abuse. Sure, people in BDSM can be abusive, but so can people in non-BDSM (and in fact, I have personally found more abuse there.)

So abuse is a very important issue with me, and if I felt that BDSM perpetuated abuse, I wouldn't be here. From what I have seen, it pushes towards the opposite of abuse: channeling anger and sadism and masochism and control into a constructive expression. Abuse on the other hand is destructive.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Re: Troll Poll

Less than 90% yes, but still way too high for my liking.

Not that I think abuse victims are particularly prevalent in BDSM, but rather that they are too prevalent in our society as a whole for my liking.

I was abused as a child -- not sexually, but physically, emotionally and spiritually. Sad to say my sisters also copped sexual abuse. I have, of course, sought help to deal with this and other issues, and I'm not shy about going to counselling when I need to.

In fact, when I started getting into BDSM seriously, my lover and I sought counselling to help deal with the fact that we were headed in a direction that my lover didn't wish to go, and she was extremely reluctant to get involved. At the same time neither of us wished to break up (I considered it very carefully, as my lover is NOT submissive, but... I wanted to have my cake and eat it too.)

It turned out that much of the problem was around education and understanding. (I'm sure that like most relationship issues, communication is always up there!) She had gone out and read up on BDSM and what was involved, and didn't want to get into what amounted to a "fetishist" lifestyle. You know, the leather, the whips, the chains, the feather dusters...

Anyway, suffice to say that the counsellor was neutral, neither pro no against, and didn't seem to think the issue was as insurmountable as we felt. He did say that "it wasn't going to go away, so ignoring it wasn't a viable option." Which made my lover think hard.

What he didn't say was "you are sick, and you need help. It's all due to abuse."

In fact, a lot of the hard thinking I did when I got into it was around the abuse issue. I didn't want to perpetuate something that I felt was very wrong. I have experienced abuse, and BDSM play is NOT abuse. Sure, people in BDSM can be abusive, but so can people in non-BDSM (and in fact, I have personally found more abuse there.)

So abuse is a very important issue with me, and if I felt that BDSM perpetuated abuse, I wouldn't be here. From what I have seen, it pushes towards the opposite of abuse: channeling anger and sadism and masochism and control into a constructive expression. Abuse on the other hand is destructive.

That last paragraph is soooooooooo true for me that it gave me goosebumps. I...in my lifetime have put myself in abusive situations on purpose to have those maso needs met. Piece by piece i wa destroying myself not to mention putting myself in real danger, physically and emotionally. I had to be taught that this way was safer and better...could take me to better places then the way i knew.

 

[MissTaken]

I have been emotionally abused, but now I realise I had sub tendencies before I married at 19.....he wasn't a Dom but he was controlling I believe because of his low self esteem

Is it possible that some submissives find themselves in relationships with control freaks and domestically violent partners as they seek that control that would be afforded by a Dominant?

Not knowing what they need or where to find it, perhaps they end up in controlling relationships that are destructive and never based on their needs or interests.

Or is it not possible?

 

[FungiUg]

Actually, my own theories run similarly. I mean, why else do people STAY in abusive relationships? As a kid, it's different -- you can't exactly up and leave. But as an adult, why stay?

So yeah, I think there is something in the theory that they stay because they need control of some sort.

 

[Bandit58]

I have been emotionally abused, but now I realise I had sub tendencies before I married at 19.....he wasn't a Dom but he was controlling I believe because of his low self esteem

I posted this on another thread but I'm quoting it here because it is relevant:

I had more abuse in my "normal" 'nilla marriage than I have in our D/s relationship......now I have respect both from Him and for myself.......I have the right to say "stop" at any time and know that He will do so immediately......I am not emotionally pressured into doing anything I do not want to do....

When I was first reading about this lifestyle (before I met Master) I talked to a sub friend of mine. I was worried about the abusive connotations associated with it (ok I was ignorant, but having been through emotional abuse I was wary about exploring it even though it had been a fantasy of mine for as long as I could remember). She explained about how the sub was in control, and about Safe, Sane and Consensual, about limits both soft and hard.

Master and I have talked about our D/s life, both before and after we got together. He is taking things slowly, both because of His health and because of my past. I trust Him both to push my limits and, if I ever need to use my safe word, that it will be acted upon immediately and that we will talk about what happened and why. So far I haven't needed to use it. I feel safer with Him than I have with any partner I've had before......

 

[Bandit58]

Is it possible that some submissives find themselves in relationships with control freaks and domestically violent partners as they seek that control that would be afforded by a Dominant?

Not knowing what they need or where to find it, perhaps they end up in controlling relationships that are destructive and never based on their needs or interests.

Or is it not possible?

I stayed in that relationship for many reasons, but mostly it was fear.....of being alone, of not being able to cope, of having to leave my children (he would never have allowed me to take them when they were small). He controlled me with emotional blackmail mostly, and the silent treatment (he could sulk for days if he didn't get his own way).

I also have a deep seated need in me to serve, not just sexually. It makes me happy to make others happy, to do things to make their lives easier. That's what screwed me in the end - I tried to make everyone happy except myself I thought if I did what he wanted, including having sex whenever he wanted it, that he would care about me and love me...... All it did was make me feel desperately unhappy, and I ended up physically ill with a stress related stomach ulcer.

Since I've been out of that and done heaps of reading I realise what happened to me. I am a sub, always have been. I allowed my ex to control me and when I realised how bad it was, it took a supreme effort to make the break, because he had "brainwashed" me into thinking I couldn't cope alone. I have proved him and everyone else wrong. I am stronger now than I have been for years and Master is helping me build on that strength. I submit now because it's what I want and need to do, with Him no one else........

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

My vote

abused: sexually, physically, emotionally.

And yes, I discovered my need to maintain control (as a Dominant) and to have pain in direct correlation to my early life experience. For me, it keeps me sane, makes me happy and lets me feel as if I am fucntioning normally.

(As I have discussed this extensively in other threads, I did not think it would be needed for me to do so again)

Luna

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Actually, my own theories run similarly. I mean, why else do people STAY in abusive relationships? As a kid, it's different -- you can't exactly up and leave. But as an adult, why stay?

So yeah, I think there is something in the theory that they stay because they need control of some sort.

Probably depends on the person. but I think the ones who stay (who are more likely either vanillas or subbies, not budding dommies, right?) mostly do so for the same reasons that subby people stay in non-abusive, vanilla relationships that don't satisfy them. Because they are passive, subby folk who are more likely to try to fix things, to serve better, than to leave.

i know you didn't mean it that way but -- it can be a bit like blaming someone for not being strong. I mean my inability to climb a rope when I was a kid was purely physical, not psychological. And what a wonderful thing, in mid-life, to finally have what it takes. And that's something that visible and tangible. It's that much harder to see what you lack and how to get it when it's invisible.
There were those who made out my lack of upper body strength to say more about me, to have a deeper meaning, than a mere lack of physical development that required strength training. If sheer will could have levitated me up that damned rope, I'da been there in seconds. Yet, what I was told was 'you're not Trying.' (And there was a sneaky, niggling little finger of doubt in me all these years later -- until I took an intense, yearlong weightlifting class and made the most of my muscles. NOW I know there was no way I could have Tried harder up that rope.

Don't you think psychological strength is similar? You need to be either gifted or well-trained? Those who aren't naturally gifted, and don't get the training, tend to blame themselves and to get blamed by those who are stronger but dont' realize they have natural strength that others lack. Something to consider.

 

[FungiUg]

I mean my inability to climb a rope [...]

Trust you to get the conversation around to rope!