Trapped...Confused

[Joshuajj]

I am in a long relationship with my wife, and have a wonderful family, but I have found that while I love my wife, I am no longer in love with her, and I no longer desire her sexually. She has recently disclosed to me that her sexual desires are very different from my own. While I do not judge or have a problem with the fact that she has these desires, I do not share them. The problem I face is the fact that simply the knowledge she has these desires has made me not wish to be with her sexually any longer. I have tried to combat this, but I cannot get past it. I love her, but I no longer wish to have a physical relationship with her. I wish to stay together for the children, and I feel I owe her for her many years of staying by my side...but I am empty inside and I do not know how to reconcile my head with my heart. There are so many compassionate, good people on this board...and I suppose I already know what the right answer is intellectually, but opinions and insight from this group would be very much appreciated and welcome. I have definitely lost my way...I am looking for some light.

Please be gentle with me. This is my first post. Thank you...all of you in advance.

 

[monteJ]

boy thats a tough position to be in, you have to appreciate the fact that you're wife is open and honest with you, how long have you been married? have you sought out any professional counsel? i would imagine if the marriage meant that much to the both of you two you would at least find a way to reach a middle ground, marriage is all about compromise right? i think you know the best solution for now is to get outside help and see if you can work on things from that angle.

 

[rawritscarl]

Before you do anything drastic.. what i do when i'm in similar situations ... is dig deep.. REAL deep and think about all the memories and events that have bound you 2 together, what made your relationship happy in the past and what now troubles you. . . Sometimes its more misscomunication and when you feel like its a lost cause you need to think about what made it a cause to begin with.

 

[SweetErika]

I agree with Monte: Perhaps you can find a middle ground, but this really sounds like an issue you (and your wife, ideally) need to seek professional help with. Are you willing to see a good therapist? Is your wife?

Would you mind elaborating on these sexual desires that flipped your switch off? It's hard to get a sense of the situation and make suggestions when there are so many possibilities and vague terms.

Also, what is that 'right answer' that you know intellectually, and what kind of help/answers are you looking for? Again, I'm stumped by the lack of specifics.

 

[PassionatePair]

How long do you think a sexless marriage will work for either one of you? Before one or both of you go find another sexual partner? Abstinence is the most inexplicable sexual perversion.

If you found out she had another sexual partner, how would it affect you?

If she found out you had a different sexual partner, how would it affect her?

"The truth will out" --- William Shakespeare. Willie knew you can only keep a secret for a short period of time.

So if one of you is not good with the other having sex outside the marriage, how will this affect the kids. Trust me, they WILL know about it.

Either get therapy or get out. Everyone will be better off for it.

My two cents.

 

[Submission13]

Either get therapy or get out. Everyone will be better off for it.

My two cents.

I agree! A sexless marriage might last decades but would either of you be happy? Get professional help or a divorce!

 

[simpleman911]

private

I sent you a Pm private. Its not meant to hurt or insult you only to encourage you. We all need encouragement no matter whats going on
Peace man
Ray

 

[BertrandRussell]

"She has recently disclosed to me that her sexual desires are very different from my own. While I do not judge or have a problem with the fact that she has these desires, I do not share them. The problem I face is the fact that simply the knowledge she has these desires has made me not wish to be with her sexually any longer. I have tried to combat this, but I cannot get past it."

What exactly is it that she wants? And what do you want? Details, man, details!

 

[sunandshadow]

Wow, I feel so bad for her - confess your deepest desires and merely speaking them loses you the love of your husband?

Having a failure of imagination trying to think of any desire someone could describe to me that would make me not love them any more. I mean there are things I'm not into, some of the more extreme ones I'd consider mildly gross, but I just can't imagine why knowing what a person's fetish was would really change my opinion of a person that much. It would be more likely I'd feel guilty if I found myself in the position of just being too uncomfortable with a lover's fantasy to even attempt to play along with it.

 

[LocaChica]

I have a friend who is recently divorced. She was married for 120 years to a man who she didn't love, and hadn't had sex with for the last 17 years of the marriage. She also remained abstinent for those 17 years, as she was afraid of meeting someone who would deter her from her course. She didn't want her children growing up in a broken home like she did, so she lived this way all for the sake of the children. Would she do it again? No. Those 15 years are gone forever she can not get them back. Children are resilent, they manage, they adapt quickly. Her children even told her after she was divorced that they knew she was unhappy and could not comprehend why she stayed with their father. She kicks herself everyday for what she terms 'the wasted years'. She is now all alone as her children are away in school and have their own lives. Life is short enough. Why spend it being with someone you don't love and brings you no happiness. You deserve better!

 

[Eilan]

From someone whose parents stayed together "for the sake of the children," please, please don't do this.

 

[Joshuajj]

Interesting insights, but I feel some of you, while very well meaning in your responses, are missing the key issue I am struggling with. I LOVE my wife, dearly and completely. Her revelations have not and will not change that. She is into somewhat extreme forms of sexual expression (from my perspective). To be specific, she is into BDSM. I not only have no interest in BDSM, I generally find it revolting (I am not being judgmental...just my personal tastes). I am, it has turned out, rather 'Vanilla' so to speak. I cannot provide her an outlet for her fantasies, nor do I wish to. I know this is not coming off too well, and I do not feel anything I will say will make me sound better, but I am very much of the opinion that the sexual aspect of a relationship is just as important as the non-sexual aspect, and if they are not synchronized with one another, the relationship will suffer. While I can accept this side of her, had I known it existed when I originally married her, I likely would not have married her. This is clearly my hangup, but I simply do not find her sexually attractive anymore knowing that she would rather tie somebody up, whip them, cause them pain, etc. I simply do not wish to be with a woman whose sexual appetites and tastes are so different from my own that we do not even relate on that level...and we simply do not.

As I write this, it sounds superficial, but I truly have been and continue to struggle with this. I do not wish to leave her, but I feel I have lost an important aspect of our relationship that I dearly miss. Sexual intimacy is so important to me, yet every time I think about it with her, I lose complete interest.

We have not tried the counseling thing yet, and I am certain she would be willing, but I am very uncertain as to how much that will help. I will not find her desires more desirable to me. I do not wish to explore them with her. I am actually beginning to come to the conclusion that I should let her simply explore them on her own with my blessing within the confines of our marriage so she has an outlet for what she desires most, but I am not certain how I would deal with that yet. While I would seek permission to do the same in that case, I am not sure I could for fear of losing control of my emotions and finding new love in a sex partner better or totally aligned with me sexually. I would fear the same would happen with her. That would certainly make things more complicated, and worse, and truly, what is the point of the primary relationship when both have separate relationships outside of the marriage?

A shell is all that would remain...and then only for the children. And yes, I hear all of the time that children are very resilient and would be fine, but I cannot bear a life of simply seeing them every other weekend and on holidays. While I agree they would be fine, I simply feel they are better with an intact marriage in place, as long as it is not incredibly unhealthy, which ours is not. We are good friends living together. We are simply no longer lovers.

I appreciate the thoughtful answers so far, and I welcome more. Sweet Erika, to answer your question specifically, I truly feel that the marriage probably needs to, and eventually will end. My head tells me that every day. My heart fights against it. How can I leave my friend? How can I leave my family? When I got married, I made promises. When I had children, I made a large commitment to them. I would feel less of a man and hate myself more than I already do if I turned my back on all of that. I am guilty in the knowledge, however, that I am certain I would be happier.

This is difficult for me to articulate in the right way, but I hope at least someone here understands my point.

I ramble, I know. I will stop.

 

[sunandshadow]

It's possible to have an amicable divorce and remain as neighbors so you could see the kinds all the time...?

 

[SweetErika]

I LOVE my wife, dearly and completely. Her revelations have not and will not change that.

You loved her completely when you thought she was vanilla.

Now that she says she's into something you're not, and someone you aren't attracted to, you don't love her sexually and you want to leave the marriage.

How is that loving someone completely, for who they truly are?

She is into somewhat extreme forms of sexual expression (from my perspective). To be specific, she is into BDSM. I not only have no interest in BDSM, I generally find it revolting (I am not being judgmental...just my personal tastes). I am, it has turned out, rather 'Vanilla' so to speak. I cannot provide her an outlet for her fantasies, nor do I wish to.

Sorry, but you are being judgmental, IMO. You're judging your wife and her personal tastes based on your tastes and views. If you weren't, you'd probably be thinking more along the lines of, 'her kinks aren't my kinks, but that's okay, and it certainly doesn't mean there's anything wrong with who she is or what she likes.'

Anyway, have you considered exploring yourself and your own views? I'd imagine this would best be done by communicating with your wife and a nonjudgmental, kink-aware therapist.

While I can accept this side of her, had I known it existed when I originally married her, I likely would not have married her.

I don't get this. It doesn't sound like you accept who she is at all, at least not in terms of her being your wife. How is 'your make-up and tastes are revolting to me' acceptance? How is, 'I'm not sexually attracted to you at all because you have some different tastes than I do,' acceptance?

As I write this, it sounds superficial, but I truly have been and continue to struggle with this. I do not wish to leave her, but I feel I have lost an important aspect of our relationship that I dearly miss. Sexual intimacy is so important to me, yet every time I think about it with her, I lose complete interest.

I find it really interesting that you've lost all interest in vanilla sex with your wife. I mean, she's always been kinky, so what's the difference between then and now, other than the fact that she's been open, honest, and communicated with you?

I guess that seems like a foreign reaction to me because honesty and communication have gotten us everywhere in our marriage. There's very little I can think of that would turn me off the sex we have. If he said he wasn't attracted to me or was gay, into children or harming people, or had a fetish that he had to incorporate into sex and I found repulsive (e.g. scat), I'm sure my attraction would go by the wayside, but if he was just into something I wasn't and wanted to continue doing the things we both like, I'm sure we'd figure it out and become closer in the process.

We have not tried the counseling thing yet, and I am certain she would be willing, but I am very uncertain as to how much that will help. I will not find her desires more desirable to me. I do not wish to explore them with her.

Okay, but isn't it possible--likely, even--that therapy might help you figure out where you should go from here? That could involve reaching a compromise on the sex issue, learning some important things about yourselves and/or figuring out how to end the marriage in the most amicable way with the fewest negative consequences for yourselves and your kids.

I am actually beginning to come to the conclusion that I should let her simply explore them on her own with my blessing within the confines of our marriage so she has an outlet for what she desires most, but I am not certain how I would deal with that yet.

Think of it this way: If you don't want her, what's the harm in supporting her in being with those who do?

While I would seek permission to do the same in that case, I am not sure I could for fear of losing control of my emotions and finding new love in a sex partner better or totally aligned with me sexually.

If you go this route, I'd suggest unlinking what the two of you might do. If you support her in getting her needs met, do so because you care about her and want her to be as happy as possible. Don't hold back on that because you have issues with finding your own new partner(s).

The possibility of loving others is something you should discuss with your wife. How realistic is it for each of you to stay married as friends and love other people? Will there be jealousy issues? Are you both willing and able to confirm your intentions and have cordial relationships with each others' partners? How will it impact your family, kids and potential partners?

I'm not sure if you find polyamory as distasteful as BDSM, but even if you do, hopefully you'll research it to learn about the issues, potential pitfalls and what you should be considering and talking about. That is, if you decide to stay together and have other relationships. Keep a very open mind, take what you need, and leave the rest.

I would fear the same would happen with her. That would certainly make things more complicated, and worse, and truly, what is the point of the primary relationship when both have separate relationships outside of the marriage?

Um, having needs and wants met, and being the happiest individuals you can be?

For instance, I'm bisexual. I need to have the option to have loving relationships with other women (casual sex doesn't work for me, so it can't be limited to that). My husband understands this and supports me in fulfilling this need. That makes me happier in general, and happier with him specifically. It doesn't hurt our marriage, it helps it because we're both happier, more honest and loving with each other.

Closer to your home, I enjoy things in the realm of BDSM that he doesn't. It doesn't hurt him or our relationship to support me in doing these activities with others. In fact, it helps because we both focus on what we're really good at and enjoy doing together, rather than waste energy on the fairytale notion (to us) of being that one perfect person who fulfills every possible need and want ideally.

But we're married because we're best friends with a ton of similarities and great partners in the vast majority of ways. We love each other and have what it takes to spend our lives together quite happily. Doing things we enjoy with other people doesn't negatively impact those realities of our relationship.

Will that help you in your situation? Probably not, since it seems like you've pretty much made up your mind in favor of divorce. However, hopefully it'll open your mind to different possibilities, ways of working things out and styles of marriages.

A shell is all that would remain...and then only for the children. And yes, I hear all of the time that children are very resilient and would be fine, but I cannot bear a life of simply seeing them every other weekend and on holidays. While I agree they would be fine, I simply feel they are better with an intact marriage in place, as long as it is not incredibly unhealthy, which ours is not. We are good friends living together. We are simply no longer lovers.

Do you have a great friendship, or a shell of a relationship? I don't think you can have both - a deep friendship is substance, whereas a shell of a marriage is not.

If you're not modeling a healthy, loving relationship, you're not doing your kids any favors. How are they going to see affection and how couples relate to each other on multiple levels if you're friendly parents who are staying married for convenience, but nothing more?

And who's saying you couldn't have 50/50 custody, or damn close to it? If your split is friendly and you're both committed to acting in the best interest of the kids, you have tons of options! Some couples keep the kids in the primary home and rotate themselves between it and a smaller home or apartment. Others create two comfortable homes nearby and share custody equally, have family dinners and events together, etc. Some divorce and stay together in a home with separate spaces. The possibilities are really only limited to what you and your wife are willing and able to do for your kids.

I truly feel that the marriage probably needs to, and eventually will end. My head tells me that every day. My heart fights against it. How can I leave my friend? How can I leave my family? When I got married, I made promises. When I had children, I made a large commitment to them. I would feel less of a man and hate myself more than I already do if I tuned my back on all of that. I am guilty in the knowledge, however, that I am certain I would be happier.

Why do you think leaving the marriage is turning your back on your history and children? Really, it only is if you want it to be and choose to walk away instead of facing it and finding ways to make the best out of an unfortunate situation. You're not even leaving if you insist on staying involved and changing your current situation into a new, better situation for everyone.

And again, I'd encourage you to work really hard on why this is bringing up so much guilt, feelings of being less of a man and self-hatred. I'm willing to bet there's something within you that you're not okay with, and you're going to need to deal with that to avoid repeating the past and move on as a happy, healthy person.

I don't know if it's true for you or not, but it seems like a lot of people have these feelings when their upbringing makes working problems out difficult. For example, a friend of mine went through a lot of turmoil when many signs were pointing toward his need to be more open regarding sex and relationships, but his very religious and conservative upbringing was holding him back. I've felt it when my needs conflicted with societal ideals and norms, too.

 

[JerseySithlord]

As always Erika hits every point perfectly

I can fully understand how you and you wife could have different desires but the fact that you say that if you knew she was into that before you would not have married her. I really think that the both of you should seek counseling ASAP and maybe you should on your own as well.

To me it doesn't sound like you really do love her...because if you did you would love everything about her...regardless of if it is something you are into or not.

If you are unwilling to accept that part of her, let her go completely and find someone who can and will love her as a whole...in the long run it will be easier on all of you (kids included)

 

[VelvetDarkness]

You're whining about being offended by your wife's sexual tastes but you seem to have given no thought to how much your total rejection of her and even the sex you used to share must be hurting her. Why should she be penalised like this for opening up to you and trusting you with the darkest corner of her heart? You read like a petulant child who won't play at all unless you get exactly what you want, which isn't possible. You're not going to win by default here, you're going to lose. Good, loyal, honest, trusting women are rare and precious things.

You should be ashamed of yourself. How would you feel if it was you who harboured a sexual fantasy and she tried to divorce you just for mentioning it? You're a sexist asshole who can't handle the fact that his woman might want to try more than he's willing to. You've had your pride dented and you're prepared to wreck a family for it. For sexual compatibility? Presumably you've had compatibility for years and you still could have what you always did if you hadn't withdrawn all intimacy and thrown your toys out the pram.

She deserves far better than you and a good deal more loyalty than this.

 

[SweetErika]

You're whining about being offended by your wife's sexual tastes but you seem to have given no thought to how much your total rejection of her and even the sex you used to share must be hurting her. Why should she be penalised like this for opening up to you and trusting you with the darkest corner of her heart? You read like a petulant child who won't play at all unless you get exactly what you want, which isn't possible. You're not going to win by default here, you're going to lose. Good, loyal, honest, trusting women are rare and precious things.

You should be ashamed of yourself. How would you feel if it was you who harboured a sexual fantasy and she tried to divorce you just for mentioning it? You're a sexist asshole who can't handle the fact that his woman might want to try more than he's willing to. You've had your pride dented and you're prepared to wreck a family for it. For sexual compatibility? Presumably you've had compatibility for years and you still could have what you always did if you hadn't withdrawn all intimacy and thrown your toys out the pram.

She deserves far better than you and a good deal more loyalty than this.

I don't disagree with a lot of this personally, but it's pretty harsh and presumptuous, no?

I guess I'm trying to look at it from the side of someone who was taught WIITWD and anything but vanilla is disgusting and wrong. Perhaps they still have a church, family and friends who reinforce the depravity of our kinks on a regular basis. And in that regard, I can kind of see how a person could flip out if they learned their spouse was that kind of person, into those sick things. After all, some people do equate our kinks to the things we consider seriously hard limits and completely repugnant.

I don't know how much, if any, of this applies to the OP, but people usually don't judge and go off the deep end like he has without a lot of indoctrination against differences and kinks. Perhaps he just had the misfortune of being in an intolerant environment and hasn't figured a way out of it yet.

At any rate, I don't think berating and insulting him for his beliefs will help him open up or be more tolerant of his wife or anyone else.

 

[Eilan]

I can't help thinking about that recent thread where the OP wanted to know how to get his wife to share her past experiences and current fantasies with him. It's no wonder people are reluctant to share if something like this can be the end result.

Damn.

 

[human_male]

.....

 

[monteJ]

I can't help thinking about that recent thread where the OP wanted to know how to get his wife to share her past experiences and current fantasies with him. It's no wonder people are reluctant to share if something like this can be the end result.

Damn.

hey easy there, that was me and i was not trying to force my wife to do anything, my way of wording the question was poor, once that was established i got alot of usefull opinoins that has since led to me and the wife communicating about sexual fantasies in a whole new (and woderfull) way.
now back on topic, i'm not a huge fan of bdsm either however my wife at one point in our marriage wanted to experiment with it, i wasn't all that excited about it but i love her and i want her to be able to say she's tried it, so i did some reading internet reaserching and we tried a few things, turned out it wasn't all she thought it would be, we did learn a few new things about each other and neither of us regret try'n it, and hey we dicovered sex swings, we don't use ours in a bdsm kind of way but boy have we had some good times on that badboy, i guess what i'm try'n to say is.... don't be so closed minded if you love her you will at least agree to experiment you two will learn a few things about eachother and possibly find a new toy that you both will love.

 

[CutieMouse]

Interesting insights, but I feel some of you, while very well meaning in your responses, are missing the key issue I am struggling with. I LOVE my wife, dearly and completely. Her revelations have not and will not change that. She is into somewhat extreme forms of sexual expression (from my perspective). To be specific, she is into BDSM. I not only have no interest in BDSM, I generally find it revolting (I am not being judgmental...just my personal tastes). I am, it has turned out, rather 'Vanilla' so to speak. I cannot provide her an outlet for her fantasies, nor do I wish to. I know this is not coming off too well, and I do not feel anything I will say will make me sound better, but I am very much of the opinion that the sexual aspect of a relationship is just as important as the non-sexual aspect, and if they are not synchronized with one another, the relationship will suffer. While I can accept this side of her, had I known it existed when I originally married her, I likely would not have married her. This is clearly my hangup, but I simply do not find her sexually attractive anymore knowing that she would rather tie somebody up, whip them, cause them pain, etc. I simply do not wish to be with a woman whose sexual appetites and tastes are so different from my own that we do not even relate on that level...and we simply do not.

Curious question -

Do you know *specifically* that her interest in BDSM is the bolded bit above?

Not everyone interested in BDSM is into bondage.
Not everyone interested in BDSM is into sadism.
Not everyone interested BDSM is into masochism.
Etc, etc, etc.

Has either one of you in a fit of passion [while making love] held/pinned the other down? Scratched a back? Nibbled? Spoken authoritatively while in bed?

On some level, that is playing with power... and playing with power is the barest bones of BDSM.

 

[Eilan]

hey easy there, that was me and i was not trying to force my wife to do anything, my way of wording the question was poor, once that was established i got alot of usefull opinoins that has since led to me and the wife communicating about sexual fantasies in a whole new (and woderfull) way.

Hey, easy there. I was referring to your thread, not to you.

 

[monteJ]

Hey, easy there. I was referring to your thread, not to you.

haha... some people really took it the wrong way didn't they?

 

[biker75]

Hi – just an opinion, but you should try marriage counseling to see if you can come up with some solution or middle ground.

In the future, if you completely ignore your wife's physical needs your marriage will end eventually - and probably under very painful circumstances. Counseling would help you determine if there's a way forward or not.

 

[bakedbeams]

Im sorry but I just cant get my head around the part where your wife shares a fantasy/desire with you and because you dont agree with said fantasy/desire you are now talking about divorce.

You love your wife, but not enough to stay with her because of her not quite vanilla thoughts. Im really serious here, you would divorce someone you love, refuse to have sex with them again, because they voiced an idea you dont like??

Go and see a marriage counsellor, you dont have to like her 'idea', you dont have to partake of her 'idea', you dont even have to respect her 'idea'. But if you love her, and if you want your marriage to work you do need to come to a place of acceptance of her 'idea'.