trangendered

[tribbles]

So let me ask you this. What makes a person truly a female? Is it having a pussy and breasts? Is it wearing dresses and makeup? Is it using the women's restroom in public places? What are your criteria for someone being "truly a female" ?

For many it is very simple. Change, or die.

I can see living as the opposite gender/sex. Even treatments and surgery- but I also see that nothing is gonna change a XY to XX or XX to XY so if there were DNA at a crime scene, would they look for a male or female?

Maybe there is a better way to word the question? Or maybe it's a question that has to be answered from a personal standpoint not a genetic or even really a physical one? What will make each person the most in tune mentally/emotionally and physically?

 

[Etoile]

nothing is gonna change a XY to XX or XX to XY so if there were DNA at a crime scene, would they look for a male or female?

An interesting point! Does anybody have the number for the writers of CSI? I think we have a new episode of their show here...

 

[Wolfman1982]

An interesting point! Does anybody have the number for the writers of CSI? I think we have a new episode of their show here...

Already been done, where one of the victims was a TS. And in another episode. There the killer (and judge) was a FTM transsexual.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

Already been done, where one of the victims was a TS. And in another edpisode. There the killer (and judge) was a FTM transsexual.

CSI seems to like to take small subsections of society, and then present them ad nausium in a single episode.

 

[Tymeless]

while yeah its fake its the closest thing we will probably get in our lifetimes so we have to decide if its right for us or not. its important enough decision to have to think many years on for most of us but for some its a simple yes or no. its up to each individual transman or transwoman whether they want it or not.

 

[StrixVaria]

"Real", "Not Real". "XX", XY" - Damn, you people love to split hairs. What about women who are XY but who are not responsive to Testesterone? They develop just like "real" women... are they not real? What about men who are XXY? Now, THAT is fairly common....are they "fake" as well?

Maybe there is a better way to word the question? Or maybe it's a question that has to be answered from a personal standpoint not a genetic or even really a physical one? What will make each person the most in tune mentally/emotionally and physically?

Thank You Tribbles.

The real goal is to allow a person - male or female - to be able to function as normally as possible in a society so hung up on plumbing and misguided religious stygma that they would not be able to without the surgery.

The thing that pisses me off here is that even after spending thousands of dollars to make everyone else feel comfortable, some idiots still want to lable these folk as "fake". What the Fuck is that supposed to mean? That because of accident of birth, you're still better?

In my book, the application of the label of "real" and "fake" in these circumatances simply lables you as an asshat.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

In my book, the application of the label of "real" and "fake" in these circumatances simply lables you as an asshat.

What about the labells "male" and "female"? Feel better about those?

 

[Tymeless]

i'm perfectly comfortable with the labels male and female i'm just not comfortable with the stereotypes that come with them.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

i'm perfectly comfortable with the labels male and female i'm just not comfortable with the stereotypes that come with them.

Same here; I hate when people try to attach personality types to boy configurations.

 

[MyFriend27]

I think it doesnt even matters what other people accept you as or not. Your sex is determined by whats inside your mind and not by what form your body actually takes. The surgery just matches hopefully both up, but even thats not necessary, hence you can be a man without having the surgery to give you a penis, or become a women without breast implants.

Etoile, I think you are wasting your breath on MyFriend27 he obviously has set his mind with his own definition of what a man or a woman is, and wont try to understand the info or opinions he has been given.

Despite what you think i am learning a bundle of knowledge and understand more so i thank all you

 

[MyFriend27]

And as far as definitions go I suggest you check the dictionary. Start with teh following:
1. male
2. female
3. transsexual

 

[naughtyinsilk]

And as far as definitions go I suggest you check the dictionary. Start with teh following:
1. male
2. female
3. transsexual

We are talking about real people, with real bodies, emotions and feelings not dictionary definitions.

Try looking up
1.insensitive,
2.obtuse
3. offensive.

 

[MyFriend27]

Naughty i always liked you and respect you

but that is not fair. Not fair at all. I understand as i have stated before that its a difficult decision and it comes with alot of pain and if a person is happy that is what matters. Whatever a person's definition of man and women who the hell cares its the heart how you feel inside and the person that you are.
None of those words you stated describe me and insulting people is disrespectful and a level i wont stoop to

 

[naughtyinsilk]

but that is not fair. Not fair at all. I understand as i have stated before that its a difficult decision and it comes with alot of pain and if a person is happy that is what matters. Whatever a person's definition of man and women who the hell cares its the heart how you feel inside and the person that you are.
None of those words you stated describe me and insulting people is disrespectful and a level i wont stoop to

I wasnt describing you, I dont like throwing insults around.
What I am trying to point out to you is how your comments are coming across.
Transgendered people have a tough enough time as it is, just because you arent intentionally trying to hurt them doesnt mean that you are not.
I think the best thing for you to do is to accept that this is all going nowhere and that people are just going to get upset and its really not worth it. Respect is the greatest thing that you can both give & receive, and stepping back from this conversation and just giving your support & love to people regardless of any minor points of view you may differ on, would be a great place to start. We dont all have to agree, but we all do have to take other peoples feelings into consideration.
Lets all kiss & makeup, and concentrate on important stuff like shoes

 

[Etoile]

Already been done, where one of the victims was a TS. And in another episode. There the killer (and judge) was a FTM transsexual.

Yes, I've seen those episodes, but I mean one where the DNA evidence points to a man but the person is actually transgender and living as a woman.

 

[Tymeless]

look i hold no ill will towards anyone on this board at all i just want everyone to see how their comments and terms that they may not realize are offensive to us are i in no means want to start fights i just want to inform. I'm thicker skinned then most but you see people continually pop up and call us shemales and it eventually starts to hurt and get taken a bit personal even when its not. The reason shemale bothers us is because it emphasizes the male aspect of our lives that we are trying to leave behind. even using male to female doesn't hurt because it emphasizes the FEMALE which is what we are becoming. to me the transgenderism is totally about my body image and how i feel inside. Even once i'm a lady i'll still be very tomboyish, i like sports, i like video games, i like anime, but i also enjoy stuff that is typically female i don't let those traits define me, but reguardless of how well i fit into male society and believe me i do my body isn't right i feel more woman then man and i want to right that ship, i've tried the just accept i'm male and live with it and i couldn't. so this is the next step!

 

[StrixVaria]

I think what we are driving at is an illustration of the fact that in evolution, life tries many combinations of elements. Limiting the categories to "Male and Female" simply does not cover all of the possibilities. There are an infinate range of states of being, just as no on is all White, all Black, all Asian.... limiting the choices is artificial and, well, just a little simpleminded.

 

[tribbles]

Did you have in mind the, I think it's 16 sexes of Heinlein?

Gotta go to work or I'd look it up online.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

even using male to female doesn't hurt because it emphasizes the FEMALE which is what we are becoming.

The thing is, though, you're really not becoming female. Hormones, surgery, SRS.... these are that are designed to make you look more like a biological woman; they don't actually change who you are.

 

[Tymeless]

i'm not trying to change who i am. i'm trying to change my body. its completely cosmetic. but the hormones do change you to an extent and anyone that tells you otherwise is lying, estrogen makes you more emotional you experience higher highs and lower lows. Testosterone makes you more aggressive and generally more violent but not in all cases. estrogen kills our sexdrive doesn't eliminate it but reduces it big time, testosterone increases sexual desire. so in the end the hormones do effect who you are and how you behave. i'm not doing the hormones or anything for that matter to change me the person i'm doing it to change my body.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

That's true. What I meant by not changing who you are is that it doesn't make you a woman or man; it just makes you look like one.

If you're trying to change your body to correspond with your personality, doesn't using a method that changes your personality seem kind of self-defeating?

 

[Tymeless]

yeah it does but i don't intend on changing who i am other then the increased emotions i'll be feeling, the way i dress, thats about it.

 

[KABUKISTAR]

Ideally, you would learn to accept yourself as you are, but I suppose I can't convince you of that.

At the very least though, try to be honest, in your future endevors; don't do what so many others do, and try to convince people that you're biologically a sex which you aren't.

 

[Tymeless]

i will convince people i am what i am a woman, genetically i am male yes, but in emotional and mental levels i am a woman. I've tried to accept my male body i have and while its easy for you to say just accept it you don't seem to understand the biology behind it either. We were exposed to hormones during pregnancy that made us mentally diffrent then our physical bodies, nature isn't perfect just like humans aren't perfect, but the fact remains we have an effective way of fixing the body enough to correct the chromosomes, since we can't reprogram the brain, and who would want their brain reprogrammed anyway i know i wouldn't. If i have to i'll pull up the research behind this on a scientific level. Yes ideally i could take the easy route live the lie and accept my body, but then i'll live a sad unhealthy life of self destruction. Its easy for you to pass your judgement and your views about us but the thing is you can never understand it if you haven't lived in our shoes.

 

[Etoile]

At the very least though, try to be honest, in your future endevors; don't do what so many others do, and try to convince people that you're biologically a sex which you aren't.

I don't understand this. Do you mean that trans people shouldn't try to pass as their post-transition gender? I have only heard of one trans person in the world who deliberately did not want to pass, that would be Alexis Arquette. She says she doesn't want people to think she is a woman, she wants people to think she is a transwoman. But most trans people I know would like to pass where possible.