Trade wars with Russia & Iran = good, tariffs = bad

[renard_ruse]

The media claims that tariffs, which are nothing more than a tax, would amount to "declaring a "trade war"" with China, Mexico, and other countries that have been screwing us with unfair trade policies for years.

Yet the same media is all for politically motivated sanctions, which are literally trade wars, against other countries like Russia and Iran, which just want to be friends and trade with us at all.

If the media is really concerned about "trade wars" why doesn't it oppose sanctions against countries that cost our businesses economic opportunies and unnaturally restrict trade.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I recommend Bastiat's Sophisms of the Protectionists for anyone who think any trade barrier is a good idea. Those who do it against us enjoy short term gain, but in the long run, suffer loss...



... i.e., in the short term, it may harm us, but in the long run, we prevail.

In strategy it is important to keep a distanced view of near things and a near view of distanced things.
Shinman Miyamoto Musashi

 

[KingOrfeo]

I don't know about "trade war," but under present economic conditions, raising tariffs would be pointless, at least for protectionist purposes. In the 19th Century a high tariff was good for protecting the growing American industrial sector from competition with countries who had gotten an earlier start on industrializing. That consideration no longer applies.

 

[someoneyouknow]

Sanctions are designed to punish a person or country for their actions. In the case of Russia, for its theft of the Crimea, its continuing attack on Ukraine and its support of terrorists within Ukraine.

For Iran, its support of terrorism and its fake nuclear weapons program.

Sanctions can easily be lifted once the people or country stops doing whatever it is put the sanctions in place.

A trade war refers to two or more states raising or creating tariffs or other trade barriers on each other in retaliation for other trade barriers. Increased protection causes both nations' output compositions to move towards their autarky position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_war

In other words, if China subsidizes its steel industry so its steel is significantly less than American steel, we could impose higher tariffs on Chinese steel coming into this country to make up for the perceived subsidies so American steel producers would be able to compete on equal terms.

The key difference between sanctions and a trade war is sanctions cut off trade. Without the ability to do business with other countries, the country under sanctions faces economic difficulties to sustain their actions.

During a trade war, countries continue to do business with each other but the object is to make the trading more equal for one or both parties.

As always, you make the false assumption Russia has anything the U.S. wants to trade for other than AK-47s.

 

[KingOrfeo]

As always, you make the false assumption Russia has anything the U.S. wants to trade for other than AK-47s.

And vodka, oil and gas.

 

[HisArpy]

I don't know about "trade war," but under present economic conditions, raising tariffs would be pointless, at least for protectionist purposes. In the 19th Century a high tariff was good for protecting the growing American industrial sector from competition with countries who had gotten an earlier start on industrializing. That consideration no longer applies.

Again, you make it seem so logical until someone actually looks at events and thinks about what you said.

America is currently undergoing a manufacturing sea change. In order to do this and succeed, tariffs are going to be a necessary component to prevent unfair competition by foreign government subsidized trade.

So your statement of "[t]hat consideration no longer applies" is incorrect based on factors evident in the real world instead of socialistic fantasy.

Real life is not a textbook cliff note, or a google search result, or a ideology driven agenda. Your biggest failure is not understanding that concept. It is why you sit and post trivia and crap on a porn forum all day regardless of whatever skills and training you posses which would (theoretically) allow you to do otherwise and succeed.

 

[Wrong Element]

Again, you make it seem so logical until someone actually looks at events and thinks about what you said.

America is currently undergoing a manufacturing sea change. In order to do this and succeed, tariffs are going to be a necessary component to prevent unfair competition by foreign government subsidized trade.

So your statement of "[t]hat consideration no longer applies" is incorrect based on factors evident in the real world instead of socialistic fantasy.

Real life is not a textbook cliff note, or a google search result, or a ideology driven agenda. Your biggest failure is not understanding that concept. It is why you sit and post trivia and crap on a porn forum all day regardless of whatever skills and training you posses which would (theoretically) allow you to do otherwise and succeed.

An argument against tariffs is socialism?

 

[KingOrfeo]

America is currently undergoing a manufacturing sea change. In order to do this and succeed, tariffs are going to be a necessary component to prevent unfair competition by foreign government subsidized trade.

The sea change is purely technological, and the only thing to worry about in connection with it is technological unemployment. Foreign competition won't much matter, subsidized or not; no nation is ahead of the U.S. technologically.

 

[HisArpy]

The sea change is purely technological, and the only thing to worry about in connection with it is technological unemployment. Foreign competition won't much matter, subsidized or not; no nation is ahead of the U.S. technologically.

More spewed bullshit.

Cars are not tech. Home appliances are not tech. Aerospace is not tech. Factory workers aren't tech. They USE tech, but they are not tech. Nor are their jobs.

GM, Ford, Carrier, Lockheed-Martin, are not silicon valley companies. When questioned, the CEO's of these companies say that the jobs they are creating are market driven.

IOW's, the ECONOMY is projected to be strong because consumer confidence is up because of the belief that Trump will turn things around. In order to do that, Trump needs to implement policies to protect American products against unfair foreign competition.

 

[KingOrfeo]

More spewed bullshit.

Cars are not tech. Home appliances are not tech. Aerospace is not tech.

Of course they're tech. They're machines. "Technology" encompasses a great deal besides digital technology.

 

[someoneyouknow]

And vodka, oil and gas.

Funny, I don't see stores running out of vodka, nor do I see us having an issue with oil or gas since we're told America is energy sufficient. It's why we ship oil and gas overseas.

 

[HisArpy]

Of course they're tech. They're machines. "Technology" encompasses a great deal besides digital technology.

What a cute generic statement that has NOTHING of value or consequence anywhere in it. You must be so proud of yourself for thinking it up.

Jobs are not "machines". "Machines" are the product of people with jobs who manufacture the machines. When they enter the market "machines" are called "products". By imposing trade tariffs on foreign built "products", domestic "products" have a fighting chance to grow and stabilize.

This is called industrialization. Currently undergoing a revitalization in America.

 

[KingOrfeo]

This is called industrialization. Currently undergoing a revitalization in America.

Well, if anything is holding it back, it does not seem to be foreign competition.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Funny, I don't see stores running out of vodka . . .

But there's a snob-market for the authentic stuff from Russia.

. . . nor do I see us having an issue with oil or gas since we're told America is energy sufficient. It's why we ship oil and gas overseas.

For now, perhaps, but we can all remember when America was dangerously dependent on imported oil, and there's no reason why it can't happen again.

 

[HisArpy]

Well, if anything is holding it back, it does not seem to be foreign competition.

Low priced goods from foreign nations flood our markets. Domestic products cannot compete against child labor, currency manipulation, and subsidized manufacturing.

To most economists, these points are valid constraints. Tariffs to offset these unfair practices are necessary only as long as they continue.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Low priced goods from foreign nations flood our markets. Domestic products cannot compete against child labor, currency manipulation, and subsidized manufacturing.

If that is true, then raising tariffs will prove politically impossible no matter how loudly Trump screams for it; the Pubs in Congress are a lot more beholden to the corporations who profit from outsourcing and importing than they are to Trump.

 

[Liar]

Sanctions != trade war

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Again, you make it seem so logical until someone actually looks at events and thinks about what you said.

America is currently undergoing a manufacturing sea change. In order to do this and succeed, tariffs are going to be a necessary component to prevent unfair competition by foreign government subsidized trade.

So your statement of "[t]hat consideration no longer applies" is incorrect based on factors evident in the real world instead of socialistic fantasy.

Real life is not a textbook cliff note, or a google search result, or a ideology driven agenda. Your biggest failure is not understanding that concept. It is why you sit and post trivia and crap on a porn forum all day regardless of whatever skills and training you posses which would (theoretically) allow you to do otherwise and succeed.

Soon the people we complain about now will be complaining about the edge that robotics are giving us.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Low priced goods from foreign nations flood our markets. Domestic products cannot compete against child labor, currency manipulation, and subsidized manufacturing.

To most economists, these points are valid constraints. Tariffs to offset these unfair practices are necessary only as long as they continue.

And this is good for the American consumer.

What they save on things they need leaves them more discretionary income to spend, a portion of which will go into entertainment, dining, etc. whereas with tariffs and the raising on consumer goods, you force the consumer to spend more on necessities and less on leisure activities.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Additionally, their goods are often going to be of inferior quality, so the domestic manufacturer who maintains quality will always enjoy a market, plus, we make the machines that make the goods somewhere else.