"Top Secret"

[Chobham]

Years ago I was working on a 'Star Wars' project. The where and what is unimportant. The heart of the project was based on a discovery made by a prominent Russian Physicist. His writings were posted on a cork bulletin board prominently displayed in the work area available to, maybe, 100 other researchers, all over stamped with "TOP SECRET". The reason for the display was a joke and we all laughed our asses off about it. You see that paper was a research paper presented at CERN the year before. It was all publicly available to anyone that cared to read it, and now download it. All you need is an interest and to know where to look.

The point is that our government classifies the most outrageous things. Information that they truly have no control over, but there is a group, somewhere, that as a matter of proving that they're on the ball breaks out their rubber stamp and stamps a classification on information.

That is not to say that there isn't information that shouldn't be classified. Merely to say that when you classify everything then the entire exercise becomes a joke. Just as making everything against the law does nothing more that create a nation of criminals.

I find it interesting that so many of those "classified" folders seized at Mar a Lago were empty. Just for the yucks of it I did a search online for folders of just that sort only to find that they're readily available. Maybe pricey for the likes of you or me, but for Trump it would be chump change. And as a point of interest those folders have no external indication of what the contents may be, purposely so and that means that the DOJ has NO idea as to what the contents of those empty folders were.

I also can't help but wonder if Trump, or someone in his organization, didn't purposely 'salt' those boxes of documentation with those empty folders. And if so, that would imply that the 'insider' was known and purposely led to believe that there was information there, or was a double agent? Either way if they did 'salt' those boxes with empty folders it was a brilliant move. And if they DID make such a move it would explain a few things, like why the DOJ is playing defense, why Trump is demanding it all be made public, and why the DOJ is fighting against that public exposure.

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK, if the government bought a complicated piece of equipment from a manufacturer with an extensive manual, they would copy the manual hundreds of times and classify it as 'Restricted'. If the manufacturer complained he would be prosecuted under the Official Secrets act for obtaining a classified document...

 

[Chobham]

In the UK, if the government bought a complicated piece of equipment from a manufacturer with an extensive manual, they would copy the manual hundreds of times and classify it as 'Restricted'. If the manufacturer complained he would be prosecuted under the Official Secrets act for obtaining a classified document...

It's comforting, I think, to know we aren't the only nation with an obsessive government.

 

[oggbashan]

I started work in a Defence establishment and had a high security clearance.

Later I moved to a non-defence role but I retained my security clearance. No one else in the whole department, not even the Director, had any security clearance at all.


When any classified document was received by the department, I, a junior manager, was summoned to the director's office and asked to look at the document and if I thought appropriate, give the director an edited summary of the contents. 9 times out of 10, there had been no need to send the classified document and I returned it. The tenth time? The director didn't really need to know.

 

[JohnEBbad]

There's just no there there with this story.

It is a bit humorous to think of those against triumphantly walking out with empty folders though.
High political comedy -- The New and Improved Keystone FBI Political Wing.

 

[JohnEBbad]

Remember your story lines: "Maybe pricey for the likes of you or me, but for Trump it would be chump change."

The story line is that he's lying about having two nickels to rub together.
(For you youngsters, that's a wooden nickel joke.)

 

[LupusDei]

Context matters.

Aggregate of open information may be classified, and sometimes legitimately so. Yes, I said "sometimes."

The example with the research paper, the paper may be public knowledge, but the fact that the secret project in question had special interest in that particular paper was protected information, therefore the copy of the paper in possession of the project was stamped. Ridiculous? Taken out of context, sure, it is.

The point be, to not let unauthorized people to see the paper in context of other material that in aggregate could lead to conclusions about the nature of the project. Or in the example of the manual of equipment, if it's supposed restricted information that a particular government entity possess a particular piece of equipment, of course the manual in possession of that entity would be exposing that information, thus had to be restricted.

Extrapolating it to all copies of particular document outside of that context is obsessive and clearly counterproductive, and while there could and certainly are cases of such abuse... well, I'm perhaps too optimistic.

I think quite some of these practices and procedures suffer from being hopelessly outdated, but in the minds of those paid to be obsessively paranoid it all makes sense, and they're trained to err on the side of caution. With, in aggregate, can defy the purpose.

None of which change the fact trump apparently mishandled some papers that had been marked with context of some of the best kept secrets in the world, and that anyone else in that situation would be in very, very, very deep shit. And so must he, regardless of anything else.

 

[JohnEBbad]

You're referring to the FBI coverup of Hunter's laptop, I'm assuming...

 

[zipman]

Neither Trump nor anyone in his employ are even borderline intelligent, let alone brilliant.

And I don't think the DOJ is playing defense at all.

 

[jomar]

Nice OP thought exercise in defense of trump. His taking government property is indefensible, however, no matter how much y’all continue to believe his ongoing lies.

 

[John_von_Neumann]

Looks like Assmeal and AJ finally got their talking points together. As usual, they only succeed in showing off their shit for brains.

 

[Dribble]

Making excuses for your Fascist traitor? Why not post your name...address...contact information and social security number here? Totally worthless information because everyone knows you have nothing to take.

 

[schism666]

Years ago I was working on a 'Star Wars' project. The where and what is unimportant. The heart of the project was based on a discovery made by a prominent Russian Physicist. His writings were posted on a cork bulletin board prominently displayed in the work area available to, maybe, 100 other researchers, all over stamped with "TOP SECRET". The reason for the display was a joke and we all laughed our asses off about it. You see that paper was a research paper presented at CERN the year before. It was all publicly available to anyone that cared to read it, and now download it. All you need is an interest and to know where to look.

The point is that our government classifies the most outrageous things. Information that they truly have no control over, but there is a group, somewhere, that as a matter of proving that they're on the ball breaks out their rubber stamp and stamps a classification on information.

That is not to say that there isn't information that shouldn't be classified. Merely to say that when you classify everything then the entire exercise becomes a joke. Just as making everything against the law does nothing more that create a nation of criminals.

I find it interesting that so many of those "classified" folders seized at Mar a Lago were empty. Just for the yucks of it I did a search online for folders of just that sort only to find that they're readily available. Maybe pricey for the likes of you or me, but for Trump it would be chump change. And as a point of interest those folders have no external indication of what the contents may be, purposely so and that means that the DOJ has NO idea as to what the contents of those empty folders were.

I also can't help but wonder if Trump, or someone in his organization, didn't purposely 'salt' those boxes of documentation with those empty folders. And if so, that would imply that the 'insider' was known and purposely led to believe that there was information there, or was a double agent? Either way if they did 'salt' those boxes with empty folders it was a brilliant move. And if they DID make such a move it would explain a few things, like why the DOJ is playing defense, why Trump is demanding it all be made public, and why the DOJ is fighting against that public exposure.

if you actually worked on anything worthy of being stamped "top secret", then you would know why this is a problem for a civilian to have "top secret" material.

but you didn't so you don't.

and if they were not "top secret" materials then why did drumpf blame the FBI for planting said "top secret but not really" materials?

 

[oggbashan]

In the UK many civilians have security clearances for classified material but we are all covered by the Office Secrets act so revealing classified information is a sackable and potentially criminal offence.

For example, my father was a civilian helping from 1943 onwards to prepare for D-Day. He was classed as a Bigot - one of the few people who knew a year in advance that Normandy was the destination.

He took the security designation for the D-Day preparations so seriously that until the day he died he would NEVER speak about what he had done for that operation.


Edited for PS: I would never have known that he was a 'bigot' except that his elder brother once mentioned it.

 

[Comshaw]

Years ago I was working on a 'Star Wars' project. The where and what is unimportant. The heart of the project was based on a discovery made by a prominent Russian Physicist. His writings were posted on a cork bulletin board prominently displayed in the work area available to, maybe, 100 other researchers, all over stamped with "TOP SECRET". The reason for the display was a joke and we all laughed our asses off about it. You see that paper was a research paper presented at CERN the year before. It was all publicly available to anyone that cared to read it, and now download it. All you need is an interest and to know where to look.

The point is that our government classifies the most outrageous things. Information that they truly have no control over, but there is a group, somewhere, that as a matter of proving that they're on the ball breaks out their rubber stamp and stamps a classification on information.

That is not to say that there isn't information that shouldn't be classified. Merely to say that when you classify everything then the entire exercise becomes a joke. Just as making everything against the law does nothing more that create a nation of criminals.

I find it interesting that so many of those "classified" folders seized at Mar a Lago were empty. Just for the yucks of it I did a search online for folders of just that sort only to find that they're readily available. Maybe pricey for the likes of you or me, but for Trump it would be chump change. And as a point of interest those folders have no external indication of what the contents may be, purposely so and that means that the DOJ has NO idea as to what the contents of those empty folders were.

I also can't help but wonder if Trump, or someone in his organization, didn't purposely 'salt' those boxes of documentation with those empty folders. And if so, that would imply that the 'insider' was known and purposely led to believe that there was information there, or was a double agent? Either way if they did 'salt' those boxes with empty folders it was a brilliant move. And if they DID make such a move it would explain a few things, like why the DOJ is playing defense, why Trump is demanding it all be made public, and why the DOJ is fighting against that public exposure.

Let's look at your post and claims for what the donald and associates did shall we?

As far as "salting" the boxes with empty folders, why? The donald and associates have never demonstrated a penchant for that kind of humor. In fact I don't think any of them have ever exhibited anything close to humor, so it can't be that. Additionally, to be effective it would hinge on someone finding those folders. Because of the egos involved I do not believe that any of them, especially the donald, would think anyone would ever see them without his permission, so it would be a complete failure as a joke.

As a red herring? Again it would hinge on someone finding the empty folders. I do not believe that the donald's ego would ever allow him to think that a seizure, such as was undertaken, would ever happen, so the red herring theory is DOI (dead on inception).

Let us consider the principle of parsimony, that the simplest explanation is the correct one, that the folders had files in them when taken but now they are empty.
The question then becomes, What happened to the files? Anyone with even a modicum of gray matter should feel trepidation at what that implies.

As far as the DOJ playing defense, they are far from it. The donald has demanded they release this or that, and to date they have complied (for the most part, with appropriate redactions in place). Each time they have, it has looked worse and worse for him. As far as DOJ fighting against the public exposure of everything, again anyone with even part of a brain understands that in an investigation, some things (like confidential informants) can not be made public. Additionally, since this whole thing involves documents considered to be sensitive that part also needs to be keep under wraps. There very well could be documents that detail the bowel movements of those in congress, but there also could be documents that would harm our nation's defensive capabilities. If I had to put money on it, I'd bet on the latter and I would with confidence bet a lot.

Your speculation, your attempt to deflect attention from the reality of the situation by pontificating on such a theory is entertaining (in a Benny Hill sort of way) but also ridiculous.

Comshaw

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Years ago I was working on a 'Star Wars' project. The where and what is unimportant. The heart of the project was based on a discovery made by a prominent Russian Physicist. His writings were posted on a cork bulletin board prominently displayed in the work area available to, maybe, 100 other researchers, all over stamped with "TOP SECRET". The reason for the display was a joke and we all laughed our asses off about it. You see that paper was a research paper presented at CERN the year before. It was all publicly available to anyone that cared to read it, and now download it. All you need is an interest and to know where to look.

The point is that our government classifies the most outrageous things. Information that they truly have no control over, but there is a group, somewhere, that as a matter of proving that they're on the ball breaks out their rubber stamp and stamps a classification on information.

That is not to say that there isn't information that shouldn't be classified. Merely to say that when you classify everything then the entire exercise becomes a joke. Just as making everything against the law does nothing more that create a nation of criminals.

I find it interesting that so many of those "classified" folders seized at Mar a Lago were empty. Just for the yucks of it I did a search online for folders of just that sort only to find that they're readily available. Maybe pricey for the likes of you or me, but for Trump it would be chump change. And as a point of interest those folders have no external indication of what the contents may be, purposely so and that means that the DOJ has NO idea as to what the contents of those empty folders were.

I also can't help but wonder if Trump, or someone in his organization, didn't purposely 'salt' those boxes of documentation with those empty folders. And if so, that would imply that the 'insider' was known and purposely led to believe that there was information there, or was a double agent? Either way if they did 'salt' those boxes with empty folders it was a brilliant move. And if they DID make such a move it would explain a few things, like why the DOJ is playing defense, why Trump is demanding it all be made public, and why the DOJ is fighting against that public exposure.

If Trump wanted to go public he could always openly testify in court. That would show ‘em….

 

[windar]

The simple fact is that Trump had a bunch of stuff that by law didn't belong to him. That's stealing. He was asked to return it, but didn't. Eventually his minions swore that all of it was returned, but they lied. That's perjury and obstruction. The FBI finally STOPPED THE STEAL, though we can't be sure there isn't more stuff hidden somewhere like in Bedminster, Trump Tower, Moscow or who knows where.

That the material is classified is certainly bad, but the crimes that underlie the search warrant don't require that they be.

When I left jobs, I took personal effects-family photos, my coffee mug, my radio. If I walked out with company manuals and shit like that, I would have expected a knock at the door.

 

[icanhelp1]

Nice OP thought exercise in defense of trump. His taking government property is indefensible, however, no matter how much y’all continue to believe his ongoing lies.

And then there’s Hillary!

 

[windar]

And then there’s Hillary!

There's a big difference between being in a job and taking work home and keeping stuff after you leave. I'm sure Trump took documents to Mar-A-Lago when he was in office and no one made a fuss about that, nor should they have. But the moment he left office he lost that right. I wonder if you've ever held a job, since you need to have that explained to you.

Anyway, whataboutism is the most idiotic defense ever. "OK, I robbed a bank, but so did other people!" Try that one in court....

 

[icanhelp1]

There's a big difference between being in a job and taking work home and keeping stuff after you leave. I'm sure Trump took documents to Mar-A-Lago when he was in office and no one made a fuss about that, nor should they have. But the moment he left office he lost that right. I wonder if you've ever held a job, since you need to have that explained to you.

Anyway, whataboutism is the most idiotic defense ever. "OK, I robbed a bank, but so did other people!" Try that one in court....

My point is equal application of the law not whataboutism. Hillary was in clear violation of [18 U.S. CODE 1924 & 798 ] I would suggest you read the statutes and understand the implications of not following the laws and regulation. She was hacked on her private unsecured server and shit got loose. To add insult to injury Obama was aware. She's a lawyer, the first lady and a senator to boot. She knew the protocol involved with handling classified material.

Then there's the issue of obstruction of congress, ignoring congressional subpoenas and bleach bit servers and taking a hammer to tech devices.

The Trump case is yet to be defined. Did the DOJ overreact using strong armed tactics will be decided in a court of law. I'm content to wait and see.

 

[LittleDixie]

I'm guessing that the material that the FBI wanted controlled (seized) was information on their Crossfire Hurricane project. I think that the FBI didn't want that information to go public and they were irked that Trump had it.

The President of the United States has the highest security clearance. There aren't levels of classification that can be legally withheld from the President. The President also has the power to declassify documents. He did this with the Crossfire Hurricane documents.

It is most likely that the FBI wanted to Hoover up (lol) everything that they could get their hands on to prevent Trump from using the documents he had against the FBI and to try and find something that they could use to either blackmail him or criminally prosecute him. The FBI is back to the bad old days of J. Edgar Hoover.

 

[JohnEBbad]

The simple fact is that Trump had a bunch of stuff that by law didn't belong to him. That's stealing. He was asked to return it, but didn't. Eventually his minions swore that all of it was returned, but they lied. That's perjury and obstruction. The FBI finally STOPPED THE STEAL, though we can't be sure there isn't more stuff hidden somewhere like in Bedminster, Trump Tower, Moscow or who knows where.

That the material is classified is certainly bad, but the crimes that underlie the search warrant don't require that they be.

When I left jobs, I took personal effects-family photos, my coffee mug, my radio. If I walked out with company manuals and shit like that, I would have expected a knock at the door.

You don't know that, but you have jumped to a conclusion.

This is the exact converse of the FBI claiming that Hunter's laptop was Russian, Russian, Russian disinformation in order to cover the Clinton Family-type corruption of the Biden Crime Syndicate.

To follow up, I have two ancillary points:

1. President Biden, faithful, blue-collar (never worked a day in his life) servant of the people became a multi-millionaire on minimal salary and no one on the Left (and in the press they control) has once cried out, show us the tax returns, unleash the IRS! Send 87,000 new agents to destroy his family and search al their belongings making sure to sniff Jill's panties.

2. Why is he not being held to the Hillary Clinton standard where the destruction of 33,000 public government records on a bathroom server were allowed to be erased and hard ware allowed to be physically destroyed with a ho-hum and the plaintiff wail, at this point, What Does It Matter? It was no more than some guys out on a walk?


I, and everyone else knows what is going on here and why it meets with some approval; Democrats are so insecure about their party platform and the shallowness of their bench and this outlandish action is their only path to victory -- they fear the Trump. Unless they can turn the Republicans into Fascists and Trump into Hitler reincarnate, they don't stand a chance running on things like annual Covid lockdowns and an economy hampered (like WWI reparations hampered Germany) because the American Left wants to now emulate Germany's (RED) Green energy policies.

 

[Chobham]

If the DOJ were so sure of themselves they wouldn't be leaking like sieve's and making public statements.

 

[JohnEBbad]

They have to drive the MSM echo chamber in the drive for a California-style one-party rule.

Conservatism must be criminalized in the celebration of diversity in everything but thought.

Rainbow Fish thinking. Red Green "watermelon" thinking.

 

[Chobham]

Speaking of the MSM, it'll be interesting to see what results the purge at CNN yields.