Top/Bottom vs. Dom/me/Sub

[MsWorthy]

I posted on another thread what my understanding of a Top/Bottom was and how it differed from a Dom/me/Sub. I am curious how others feel about these identifiers.

This is my understanding of the definitions of these terms:

Top = someone who controls/directs sexual activity; egalitarian outside of the bedroom.

Bottom = someone who enjoys being directed/controlled during sexual activity; egalitarian outside of the bedroom.

Dom/me = someone who controls/directs her/his partner in day-to-day life; accepts the personal power of her/his partner in some/many/all areas of life. (May or may not be sexually dominant; a Top)

Submissive = someone who accepts/craves/needs to be directed/controlled in some or all aspects of day-to-day life; gives up personal power in some/many/all areas of life. (May or may not be sexually submissive, a bottom)

Do you have a preference in which label you chose to describe yourself? If so, why do you have that preference? Do you feel there is some advantage in chosing one label over another? (For example, identifying as a submissive rather than a bottom.)

 

[Persephone36]

I'll go first -- this is actually a very easy one for me if I use your definitions...

I'd be a bottom rather than a sub. I'm only interested in being directed or controlled sexually -- have no need or desire to be under anyone else's control, other than my own, (and I keep trying not to even do that so much, lol) within the rest of the scope of my life.

For me -- that part's pretty straight forward.

Now, defining personally what that direction or control is going to be sexually -- that's a *whole* other ball of wax.

But, I do know that in some instances people who are solely interested in being sexually submissive or bottoms, still refer to themselves as subs -- they just say they're sexual subs. Since my sexual activities have hardly been solely 'nilla -- but haven't ever been in the strictest sense -- D/s -- it's all new territory for me.

To me, I know that it's all an exploration period -- so I'm willing to give myself lots of latitude. At the same time, I certainly don't want to misrepresent myself, to anyone I would be getting involved with. Or for that matter -- members of this board, since we're all here basically with an attitude to share information and support one another.


P.

 

[zipman]

Great topic!

I have always struggled with this topic, so I am really looking forward to reading what is posted here.

I always associated sub with sexual activity, and possibly more submissive activity outside the bedroom, but not necessarily so. A slave would be a 24/7 type of committment. That is not to say that I think this is correct, just the way I have always thought about it.

I have always thought (pehaps mistakenly so) that Top and Dom were interchangeable as were bottom and sub.

I would love to hear from a Dom/bottom or a sub/Top and get their take on this.

 

[Desdemona]

Re: Great topic!

I have always struggled with this topic, so I am really looking forward to reading what is posted here.

I always associated sub with sexual activity, and possibly more submissive activity outside the bedroom, but not necessarily so. A slave would be a 24/7 type of committment. That is not to say that I think this is correct, just the way I have always thought about it.

I have always thought (pehaps mistakenly so) that Top and Dom were interchangeable as were bottom and sub.

I would love to hear from a Dom/bottom or a sub/Top and get their take on this.

What he said. I'm happy with bottom or sub as a label.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Interesting distinction. I kinda like it. I would say I still fall in the switch category, but at least now it's more the switch between top and bottom, instead of switch between Dom/sub. There are some parts of my life I would give up control over, but the majority I would not. Nor would I want total control over someone. So the Dom/sub distinctions don't seem to fit me very well. The top/bottom does however. Which I am all changes day to day I guess.

Thanks for the post MsWorthy.

- PBW

 

[Justina123]

Fascinating definitions....

Yes, an interesting topic, and your definitions seem about what I have understood, Ms. Worthy.

I definitely call myself a submissive, both in and out of the bedroom. In my case, because of family responsibilities and other considerations, I see my Dominant one or two weekends a month and during those times crave and thrive on submitting my will and control of my behavior, body, and self to Him. Between times when we are able to be together, I have to be a strong willed, independent, single mother and professional.

In a perfect world, I would be able to be in a 24/7 relationship, and I can imagine it would be a fascinating experience learning to juggle job, home, and a d/s relationship....ahh...fantasy time here.....but it's pleasant to dream about.

- justina

 

[A Desert Rose]

~~~~~~~~~~Well, what a great topic. Based on those definitions, I am a bottom (or sexual submissive.) There are just certain areas of my day to day life that I cannot relinquish to someone else. However, in not giving up those areas of my life, I would not be able to be dominate to my partner, either. Like PB, I definately have no desire to completely dominate another. That is just not how I am made up.

Rose

 

[WriterDom]

To me, Top and bottom has a connotation of two people playing with very little emotional involvement.

 

[morninggirl5]

I'm submissive. 24/7 seems a bit much for me at this point, but it's not something that i'm willing to say, "no, that's definitely not for me." There are areas of my life that are mine to deal with, but some direction or suggestion in those areas is always welcomed.

 

[artful]

I tend to side with Sis on the issue of labels.
"Labels Shmabels,...I just am who I am".

It pleases me to have Dream refer to me as Master, but other than that,I don't REALLY care what label others may wish to attach to me. (Well,...EXCEPT for being labeled a *Milquetoast*.)-LMAO

 

[A Desert Rose]

To me, Top and bottom has a connotation of two people playing with very little emotional involvement.

~~~~~~~I respect your opinion but I don't agree with it. I am trying to phrase this so it's not personal and I am having a hard time doing that. I know you are not making a sweeping statement about people like me, but at the same time, it feels like you are.
Okay, well, I can't find the right way to say it so, I won't. Suffice it to say that I don't view this the same way you do. And that's fine, because at the end of the typing here, it does not matter if we do or not (view it the same way.) LOL

Rose

 

[redelicious]

To me, Top and bottom has a connotation of two people playing with very little emotional involvement.

This is my first serious post on this board.

I am very new to BDSM with extremely limited rl experience and very little online play (just to clarify)

From everything I have read and can gather I am probably a bottom rather then a sub. I am dominate in my marriage in virtualy all respects. I can not see myself giving up that control.

However, sexually I consider myself submissive. I desire to please my partner and more then willing to submit to him - whatever he needs (though I am not really into S&M as much as bondage).

My issue with WD's statement is that while I can see a Top/bottom relationship being about play I don't think that it is devoid of emotional attachment. The need to please my sexual partner IS an emotional one. In fact I think even BDSM play, just by its more intense nature, is more emotional then your basic vanilla casual sex. But maybe that is just me - I know everyone has different needs.

If I could ever introduce my husband to BDSM as a sexual practice - would that not be an example of an emotional involvement?

 

[~Dream~]

Who I am..

I am a submissive sexual slave..I belong to Artful..why I choose to say sub and NOT BOTTOM IS I'm not at the bottom of anybody or anything..I KNOW my Master needs my submissiveness and deserves it just as much as I NEED His Control and it IS 24/7 with me..tho we are once again,far apart I find myself ever-craving,ever yearning for His Control over me..I wear the collar always as a constant reminder to me ..WHO I BELONG to..I seek to please Him ,I LIVE to make Him happy ..it IS my DESIRE to do so.. ~

 

[artful]

Deli

This is my first serious post on this board.

I am very new to BDSM with extremely limited rl experience and very little online play (just to clarify)

From everything I have read and can gather I am probably a bottom rather then a sub. I am dominate in my marriage in virtualy all respects. I can not see myself giving up that control.

However, sexually I consider myself submissive. I desire to please my partner and more then willing to submit to him - whatever he needs (though I am not really into S&M as much as bondage).

My issue with WD's statement is that while I can see a Top/bottom relationship being about play I don't think that it is devoid of emotional attachment. The need to please my sexual partner IS an emotional one. In fact I think even BDSM play, just by its more intense nature, is more emotional then your basic vanilla casual sex. But maybe that is just me - I know everyone has different needs.

If I could ever introduce my husband to BDSM as a sexual practice - would that not be an example of an emotional involvement?

Glad to see you posting in our Forum.

 

[WillowPuss]

Thats a good question MsWorthy.

I consider myself to be submissive.

I am submissive to Robuck in and out of the bedroom. I have offered him control over my life.

That doesn't mean He controls every second of every day - that would be impossible for Him - we are apart during the working day.

 

[lasavane]

Ok, i'm a sub, but i have a little bit of a different view of top and bottom as i know a married couple that identify themselves this way. He is the top, she is the bottom, but she pretty much controls everything in the marriage, bedroom, even buys the toys she wants used on her, etc. In this case, and i have seen it defined this way in one of the books i have - but i can't remember which one at the moment and i'm too lazy to go find out - the top is the one giving the sensation (not necessarily controling it) and the bottom is the one recieving the sensation. Generally, i think these terms are not associated with a power exchange, but are instead a discription of who is doing what in a purly s/m sort of way without the D/s.

Personally, i am a sub through and through. My husband is a switch, which i absolutly hate. However, when he switches at least within our relationship which is the only time he switches, but it might be different if he went out side to a real Domme, he is more of a bottom and i am a top. In fact, he often actually tells me what to do, and certainly tells me if he doesn't like something. He is recieving the sensation and i am giving it, but i don't really dominate him, because i really, umm, i guess can't. i mean maybe i could, but it is just soooo unnatural for me. Oh, and he doesn't switch often because he knows just how much i hate it.

lasavane

 

[Hecate]

....
In fact, he often actually tells me what to do, and certainly tells me if he doesn't like something. He is recieving the sensation and i am giving it, but i don't really dominate him, because i really, umm, i guess can't. i mean maybe i could, but it is just soooo unnatural for me. Oh, and he doesn't switch often because he knows just how much i hate it.

lasavane

You mention something I have bene wondering about for a long time: would it be easier for you to not see yourself as topping /domming but instead just serving a specific need of your Dom?

It sounds like the "switching" business was more a bedroom thing - but I may have misread that ... so by giving him the sensation he wants, and him directing you, aren't you basically just serving in another style?

 

[lasavane]

Hecate, yes, the switching is confined to the bedroom and only occurs maybe once a month or less, and i am submissive pretty much all the time. So, the primary aspect of our relationship is him as Dom and me as sub. And, yes, i do like to think of it as serving one of his needs in a different way, but i'm not sure he likes to think of it that way - lol. i really don't know. i *think* he would like me to take a more dominant role when we switch, but i find it very difficult to do so, and i think though he doesn't readily admit it that he finds it difficult not to continue to Dominate me. It would probably be easier for him to go elsewhere for his switch needs, but we have always been monogomous, and i for one don't want to change that.

lasavane

 

[zipman]

You mention something I have bene wondering about for a long time: would it be easier for you to not see yourself as topping /domming but instead just serving a specific need of your Dom?

It sounds like the "switching" business was more a bedroom thing - but I may have misread that ... so by giving him the sensation he wants, and him directing you, aren't you basically just serving in another style?

I hate to interrupt a great thread with a tangential thought, but Hecate - I am fascinated with your AV. I have never seen one that is so mesmerizing! Btw, belated happy Birthday!!

 

[redelicious]

Re: Deli

Glad to see you posting in our Forum.

Thank you Artful. I was starting to wonder if anyone had noticed.

 

[Verypowerful]

I posted on another thread what my understanding of a Top/Bottom was and how it differed from a Dom/me/Sub. I am curious how others feel about these identifiers.

This is my understanding of the definitions of these terms:

....
....

Dom/me = someone who controls/directs her/his partner in day-to-day life; accepts the personal power of her/his partner in some/many/all areas of life. (May or may not be sexually dominant; a Top)

....

Do you have a preference in which label you chose to describe yourself? If so, why do you have that preference? Do you feel there is some advantage in chosing one label over another? (For example, identifying as a submissive rather than a bottom.)

I am and call myself a Domme. My "ideal" is to be in a Power Exchange relationship that covers all bases; physical and mental, 24/7. One of the uses I have for labelling myself this, when I choose to, is simple; I (hopefully) won't need to get into a more lengthy explanation of myself.
This said I am in general not into labels as I find them more limiting than inspiring. Still there are some purposes that they serve, for instance as seen here on Lit when discussing different aspects of BDSM relationships. Other than that labels can also be a security signifying that one "belongs to a group"...
What I find really important though is not to attach values such as "being a sub is better than being a bottom".


my 2 cents

VP

 

[Ebonyfire]

Re: Re: Top/Bottom vs. Dom/me/Sub

I am and call myself a Domme. My "ideal" is to be in a Power Exchange relationship that covers all bases; physical and mental, 24/7. One of the uses I have for labelling myself this, when I choose to, is simple; I (hopefully) won't need to get into a more lengthy explanation of myself.
This said I am in general not into labels as I find them more limiting than inspiring. Still there are some purposes that they serve, for instance as seen here on Lit when discussing different aspects of BDSM relationships. Other than that labels can also be a security signifying that one "belongs to a group"...
What I find really important though is not to attach values such as "being a sub is better than being a bottom".


my 2 cents

VP

VP, I agree with you. I am not big on labels cause there are so many interpretations about. I sometimes opt for female dominant or service oriented Domme. but that is too limiting.

Ebony

 

[luvsubbbbb]

I posted on another thread what my understanding of a Top/Bottom was and how it differed from a Dom/me/Sub. I am curious how others feel about these identifiers.

This is my understanding of the definitions of these terms:

Top = someone who controls/directs sexual activity; egalitarian outside of the bedroom.

Bottom = someone who enjoys being directed/controlled during sexual activity; egalitarian outside of the bedroom.

Dom/me = someone who controls/directs her/his partner in day-to-day life; accepts the personal power of her/his partner in some/many/all areas of life. (May or may not be sexually dominant; a Top)

Submissive = someone who accepts/craves/needs to be directed/controlled in some or all aspects of day-to-day life; gives up personal power in some/many/all areas of life. (May or may not be sexually submissive, a bottom)

Do you have a preference in which label you chose to describe yourself? If so, why do you have that preference? Do you feel there is some advantage in chosing one label over another? (For example, identifying as a submissive rather than a bottom.)

since i posted on the last thread of MsWorthy relating to this subject (noted above), i will do so here as well........

what i will relay to You is from personal experience, and is how it was described to me by the Mistress i served during most of the summer of 2000 in NYC..........She was NOT a switch nor a submissive, but, as She explained it, bottomed to a male Top on occassion, usually every 3 or 4 months........this bottoming was done in order to create a catharsis in Her and served to energize Her tremendously...........even in respect of the bottoming, She was in control throughout, in terms of what was to transpire during the scene etc.......

so......what i am saying is, that one may bottom in the bedroom, but that does NOT necessarily mean that one is sexually submitting..........particularly if one controls the scene during which his/her bottoming takes place.........so, in effect, the egalitarian relationship takes place BOTH in and out of the bedroom.....the Top, in this case, is merely the provider to the needs of the bottom, and does not get the right to direct the scene, altho may derive much satisfaction from "flailing away" upon the flesh of the bottom!!

i, personally, do NOT like labels, as they tend to pigeonhole someone in terms of their own BDSM definition. and, as we all know: "one person's submissive is another person's bottom"...... (no pun intended)........and i will NOT judge one classification to be better than another.........different strokes for different folks!!

but.......having said that, i consider myself to be a service submissive with a strong inclination towards an intense power exchange.....

 

[Shadowsdream]

My label sticks

Domme

 

[WillowPuss]

My label sticks

Domme

As it most certainly should!




My label stays too ... I am submissive.