Top 3 Baseball Players Of The Modern Era
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Wave_Rider
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Cateogories that need to be met:
Baseball, is still a passion for me. I was one of the lucky "ones" to be drafted as a pitcher in high school. Unfortunately, being a "leftie" with a fastball that moved wasn't enough and I knew it. I pitched 2 years in college then was faced with what became known as the Tommy John surgery...........anyway:
To be considered as the best ever, in my opinion, any ballplayer has to be a 5 point player:
1) Hit for average
2) Hit with power
3) Have a gun for an arm
4) A great defensive ballplayer
5) SPEED,..........the only part that can't be "taught"
Under those parameters my three choices are:
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Roberto Clemente
Baseball, is still a passion for me. I was one of the lucky "ones" to be drafted as a pitcher in high school. Unfortunately, being a "leftie" with a fastball that moved wasn't enough and I knew it. I pitched 2 years in college then was faced with what became known as the Tommy John surgery...........anyway:
To be considered as the best ever, in my opinion, any ballplayer has to be a 5 point player:
1) Hit for average
2) Hit with power
3) Have a gun for an arm
4) A great defensive ballplayer
5) SPEED,..........the only part that can't be "taught"
Under those parameters my three choices are:
Willie Mays
Mickey Mantle
Roberto Clemente
Alright, I'm going to bore you all with my selections. I'm using my modern era cutoff as 1920. Why? Because that's the big change in the game. That's when the game changed from Ty Cobb's baseball to Babe Ruths baseball, which is pretty much the baseball we have today. A couple of points about players mentioned.
Pete Rose: I've mentioned this before but I don't think Pete was a very good player. That could be me. I wouldn't rank him in my top fifty players of the modern era. DCL said, in defense of Rose, that getting on base was important. That's true, it is. But Joe Morgan was better at getting on base than Rose. Morgan hit for more power, was better defensively and was faster. Joe MOrgan was 10 times the player Pete Rose was. He played on winning teams as much as Pete.
Hank Aaron: Is an overrated ballplayer. If I had to choose a slugger from any era, Aaron would not be high on my list. The guys who I'd rather have hitting homeruns for me include guys who hit about half as many homers as Hank. When he was getting on in years his team moved into a park that helped a right handed slugger immensely
Joe Dimaggio: Was a great ballplayer. Two points: His teammates didn't like him they way Bonds' teammates don't like him and secondly Mantle was a better player. I'd pick the complete package that Mantle had.
Roberto Clemente: A great ballplayer. Just fantastic but under Wave Rider's five point criteria I'd like to point a few things out. First, Clemente didn't hit for an overwhelming amount of power. His career high in homers was 29. Second, hitting for average is not as important as on-base percentage. Roberto didn't like to take walks. If you really look at their numbers, side by side, you'll find that Clemente doesn't belong in a class with Mays, Mantle and Ruth and more in a class with a contemporary like Al Kaline.
So my choices are:
Ruth: Not even close. Even if you wanted to debate that he wasn't the best hitter of all time(you'd be wrong) you still have to balance the fact that he was one of the five best hitters of all time and he had the makings of a hall of fame pitcher. The true complete package. Not as an athlete, but as a ballplayer.
Mantle: What's not to like? He was a career .300 hitter(Give or take a few meaningless points) hit with power, had tremendous speed(If he played in the 90's he'd be our first 50-50 man) , played good defense and played through pain. But you know what isn't talked about much with Mickey Mantle? He was the unquestioned, follow-you-into hell leader of the most successful team in baseball history. Anyone who read Ball Four knows that the Yankees of the fifties were Mickeys team. and in a 13 year stretch he took them to Eleven World Series. Think about that for a while.
Joe Morgan: A lot of people are fooled by his statistics. For the first half of his career he played in the worst ballpark a hitter could play in and at a point in time when the rules were so stacked against hitters that leagues were hitting .230. When he gets to the Reds we see the kind of ball player he is. If he had hit leadoff, he'd be a better leadoff man then Henderson. If he'd hit cleanup, I'd have no complaints. Plus, let's not forget that being a great defensive second baseman is a little more valuable than being a great defensive outfielder.
My top ten is rounded out thusly
4) Stan musial
5) Willie Mays
6) Mike Schmidt
7) Rickey henderson
8) Joe Dimaggio
9) Lou Gehrig
10) Barry Bonds
Two closing remarks. First, Yogi Berra, in addition to being funny remains the best catcher in baseball history. Second extend this list back to 1900 and Cobb is on the list, sure, but Honus Wagner leapfrogs everyone but Ruth. He was the greatest player of the dead ball era.
Pete Rose: I've mentioned this before but I don't think Pete was a very good player. That could be me. I wouldn't rank him in my top fifty players of the modern era. DCL said, in defense of Rose, that getting on base was important. That's true, it is. But Joe Morgan was better at getting on base than Rose. Morgan hit for more power, was better defensively and was faster. Joe MOrgan was 10 times the player Pete Rose was. He played on winning teams as much as Pete.
Hank Aaron: Is an overrated ballplayer. If I had to choose a slugger from any era, Aaron would not be high on my list. The guys who I'd rather have hitting homeruns for me include guys who hit about half as many homers as Hank. When he was getting on in years his team moved into a park that helped a right handed slugger immensely
Joe Dimaggio: Was a great ballplayer. Two points: His teammates didn't like him they way Bonds' teammates don't like him and secondly Mantle was a better player. I'd pick the complete package that Mantle had.
Roberto Clemente: A great ballplayer. Just fantastic but under Wave Rider's five point criteria I'd like to point a few things out. First, Clemente didn't hit for an overwhelming amount of power. His career high in homers was 29. Second, hitting for average is not as important as on-base percentage. Roberto didn't like to take walks. If you really look at their numbers, side by side, you'll find that Clemente doesn't belong in a class with Mays, Mantle and Ruth and more in a class with a contemporary like Al Kaline.
So my choices are:
Ruth: Not even close. Even if you wanted to debate that he wasn't the best hitter of all time(you'd be wrong) you still have to balance the fact that he was one of the five best hitters of all time and he had the makings of a hall of fame pitcher. The true complete package. Not as an athlete, but as a ballplayer.
Mantle: What's not to like? He was a career .300 hitter(Give or take a few meaningless points) hit with power, had tremendous speed(If he played in the 90's he'd be our first 50-50 man) , played good defense and played through pain. But you know what isn't talked about much with Mickey Mantle? He was the unquestioned, follow-you-into hell leader of the most successful team in baseball history. Anyone who read Ball Four knows that the Yankees of the fifties were Mickeys team. and in a 13 year stretch he took them to Eleven World Series. Think about that for a while.
Joe Morgan: A lot of people are fooled by his statistics. For the first half of his career he played in the worst ballpark a hitter could play in and at a point in time when the rules were so stacked against hitters that leagues were hitting .230. When he gets to the Reds we see the kind of ball player he is. If he had hit leadoff, he'd be a better leadoff man then Henderson. If he'd hit cleanup, I'd have no complaints. Plus, let's not forget that being a great defensive second baseman is a little more valuable than being a great defensive outfielder.
My top ten is rounded out thusly
4) Stan musial
5) Willie Mays
6) Mike Schmidt
7) Rickey henderson
8) Joe Dimaggio
9) Lou Gehrig
10) Barry Bonds
Two closing remarks. First, Yogi Berra, in addition to being funny remains the best catcher in baseball history. Second extend this list back to 1900 and Cobb is on the list, sure, but Honus Wagner leapfrogs everyone but Ruth. He was the greatest player of the dead ball era.
man..........i love baseball and to just pick three guys is damn near impossible but what the hell, here are my picks (1) ted williams- an under rated fielder and an super hitter, if you check all of his hitting stats,just think of where he'd rate if he hadn't given up 5 seasons in his prime, as a marine pilot...also last man to hit .400 and he homered in his last ab. (2) babe ruth-hit for power and average aannnnnnnnnd for the longest time held the scoreless innings pitched in the world series record......this guy could do it all..........ok, he did run like my grampa.(3)very tough choice but i'm going to go with bonds.....that was the name i drew from my hat.......of about 10 3rd choices.
Trivia?
I don't know the answer to this one so it's not really a trivia question.
"Whose all-time home-run record did Babe Ruth beat?"
Sure, before Ruth not many people hit home-runs, nevertheless they did hit them...
I'm thinking it's Frank 'Homerun' Baker, but I think that's just a tad too convienent.
I don't know the answer to this one so it's not really a trivia question.
"Whose all-time home-run record did Babe Ruth beat?"
Sure, before Ruth not many people hit home-runs, nevertheless they did hit them...
I'm thinking it's Frank 'Homerun' Baker, but I think that's just a tad too convienent.
Irishdragon
Really Experienced
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3 best (not pitchers)
1) Ruth 2) Ted Williams---who knows what he would have done if not for WW2 3) Schmidt...Non better at the hot corner
---If you wanna talk pitchers I think Kofax, Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, and Nolan Ryan all have to be up there somewhere.
1) Ruth 2) Ted Williams---who knows what he would have done if not for WW2 3) Schmidt...Non better at the hot corner
---If you wanna talk pitchers I think Kofax, Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton, and Nolan Ryan all have to be up there somewhere.
Marxist
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Irishdragon said:
I agree with your choices. It's a really hard thing to choose just 3. Schmidt is the best at 3rd in the last 30 years, but I'm not sure if that's enough to put him in the top 3 all-time.
Pitchers are impossible. You'd have to divide it among starters and relievers and the permutations just go on and on. Is it the lowest ERA or the most strikeouts or the most wins? No way to figure it really.
Starters: Gibson, Koufax, Martinez?
Relievers: Lee Smith, Rollie Fingers, Eck?
rick_j21
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If you dive into the realm of pitchers how can you not put the following in the pool of best: the Big Train (Walter Johnson), Christy Mathewson, Warren Spahn, Satchel Paige, and I often have heard and read of Cool Papa Bell who again was a negro league player who if had been in the Majors what would his numbers have been.
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