Thoughts on the Loving Wives Genre

[BillandKate]

I've noticed, and correct me if I'm wrong, that few of the active participants to this 'Authors' Hangout' are LW authors. I've seen sbrooks here on occasion, but few others.

Kate and I have been publishing most of our stories there, and I used to enjoy reading many of the better authors in that genre. But it seems things have changed. It appears that Loving Wives, which is defined as "Married extra-marital fun: swinging, sharing & more." has been taken over by a mob of misogynistic 'burn-the-bitch' witch hunters.

We're constantly amazed by the number of vile comments we receive whenever any of our couples engage in mutually agreed upon extra-marital activities.

We've had stories where the wife is tempted to stray, but doesn't, and the comments are how even being tempted is an affront to the marriage contract. Not to mention how many of the readers get deranged if the husband forgives a wife who strays. Where are these people from - Iran?

The genre used to be fun and the authors had talent. Now, it's rare to find a decent story. In the past 30 days, only four stories are rated higher than 4.5, which tells me the better authors are giving up.

What amazes me is that some of the illiterate crap that, if the offending wife does get badly burned, the story receives a score in the 4's.

One of the comments to a recent story suggested that it's time to split LW. A genre for the original intent of LW (see above) and another for the BTB crowd who can take their flame torches and have fun over there.

I guess I have to say I agree. The owners of Literotica are free to do as they please - it's their site after all, so this is just my two-cents agreeing with the person who left that comment - split LW in two.

Thanks for letting me rant.

 

[SimonDoom]

Your "rant" isn't a rant at all. It's a perfectly reasonable observation that many of us have been making for a long time.

I enjoy "hot wife" stories. I've read many and I've written a few. Loving Wives was meant to be the category for these stories, and its readership is so large and enthusiastic (second only to Incest/Taboo) that it's still the place to publish these stories if you want to maximize the number of your readers. But you need a thick skin, because the place is full of hate, and you're going to get 1-bombed, and your story's score will suffer. There is no group of readers at Literotica that is so implacably hostile to people with different kinks from their own than the "BTB" crowd.

I think it would make sense to split the category, but on the other hand I'm not sure it would take care of the problem.

An alternative, if you want to publish stories like these but avoid the grief, is to publish them in different categories. My "hot wife" stories tend to feature exhibitionism, so I publish them in that category. I think the audience is a little smaller, but it's more appreciative. But if maximizing your readership is the goal, then it's best to bite the bullet, brace yourself, and publish in Loving Wives.

 

[KeithD]

I wouldn't equate ratings with good/bad writing on Literotica, especially in the Loving Wives category, which is a bloody battleground on criteria other than writing or storytelling ability. There indeed is a large vocal readership for that category that is ignoring the category explanation given by Literotica. That's not likely to change. The readership is entrenched and Literotica rarely makes structural changes. Giving more categories/subcategories for jilted husbands to bleed all over doesn't seem to be a constructive fix for this.

When I have had a story I thought belonged there (and I did, under a previous account and do under other active accounts), I put it there and just whack any comments I think are irrelevant or unfair to the story I've written that I believe belongs in that category. I received an editor's pick mark for one under the sr71plt account, which doesn't rate high, but between the editor who defined the category and some guy whose wife walked out on him, I'm content with favorable response from the editor.

 

[tomlitilia]

I write LW stories and frequent this forum. You can check out my stories if you like. They are the ones with the low vote scores

 

[LexxRuthless]

I doubt splitting the category would help anyway. The BTB trolls would be unlikely to leave, since they get their kicks from trashing stories that rightfully belong in that category. Several authors who regularly comment here have stated that they submit all their LW stories on alternate accounts, and they usually recommend other authors do the same. Angry trolls from that category have been known to vengefully down-vote every submission by authors who submit a LW story that offends them.

 

[mcato]

I wrote a loving wife story and was startled by many of the comments. I wound up just deleting them. Most of the commentators were anonymous, so they already knew that they were unwilling to stand by what they were saying.

I am penning the sequel now, undeterred. I think many of us on here are of a mind, which makes it a nice community, but there is also a lot of noise - which is the unfortunate and inescapable tax of being on the internet.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've noticed, and correct me if I'm wrong, that few of the active participants to this 'Authors' Hangout' are LW authors. I've seen sbrooks here on occasion, but few others.

You have spotted the great divide. There are a few cross-pollinators, but not many.

 

[Imstillfun]

Hot wives

I write a lot of hot wife cuckold stories in LW. Truthfully I write a lot just because they anger a very small group of people. You just have to be prepared for 1* bombers and keep a thick skin. I follow the favorites more than the scores as I can see when my stories get 1* bombed.

I have over 5300 followers. That’s a score they can’t change. i mention it here because it Angers them to read it and know they can’t change it.

I’ll have a story at a score for months. The story will have over 1000 votes. Then one day it drops .08 in score. These people follow me around and 1* bomb me. They target my hall of fame and stories over 4.5.

The BTB crowd is small, but vocal. They’ve all lost women and blame others rather than see that the obsessive behavior they display here is probably what drove their women away in the first place or they are closet Cuck’s and hate themselves for it.

 

[BillandKate]

Such great support here from the authors - we've asked questions in the past (how to get italics formatted, etc.) and always received kind responses. Thanks!

To SimonDoom - yes, we recently published a four part series in Exh/Voy (our first there) and received high marks for all four stories. As an experiment, we took those four stories, combined them into one story of four chapters and published in LW. Wow! What a difference. Three of the four received HOT labels in E/V. Yet in LW, the story didn't get above 3.5. We expected a lower rating, but not that low - the lowest we've ever received of our 40+ entries. The biggest surprise? One day after the story appeared in LW, the ratings of those four in E/V dropped by 0.2 points. Which suggests to us, although we can't prove it - that the trolls actually went to the original stories in E/V and one-bombed them there. Oh well.

tomlitilia - we'll look for your stories in LW. Thanks.

LexxRuthless - given our recent experience, we think you're probably correct. The one-bombers would just drop by the new Hotwife genre and paste their vile comments before one-bombing. Pretty sick.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

 

[BillandKate]

I write a lot of hot wife cuckold stories in LW. Truthfully I write a lot just because they anger a very small group of people. You just have to be prepared for 1* bombers and keep a thick skin. I follow the favorites more than the scores as I can see when my stories get 1* bombed.

I’ll have a story at a score for months. The story will have over 1000 votes. Then one day it drops .08 in score. These people follow me around and 1* bomb me. They target my hall of fame and stories over 4.5.

Imstillfun - we've read your stories and enjoy them - keep on writing, please.

As many times as we try to forget the 1* bombers, it's tough sometimes. But, you're right, having followers in the quadruples (we recently passed 1000, 4000 is going to take a lot more years) gives us a great deal of pleasure.

 

[gordo12]

I write in LW too.

I know I go against the grain here but I love the tussle of writing in that genre. Yes, I've complained about the one bombers and the dumb comments but overall, I'd rather get the response and feedback than write a story and get one comment and a handful of votes.

I took that as far as throwing my Christmas Offering into LW. It was actually a romance. No sex at all. I've thought about deleting it and re-submit it into Romance just to compare results.

 

[yukonnights]

There's also the option on each story to simply disable voting. If all I was going to write was to be crafted for the LW genre, that's what I'd do. Then you've taken back the control, you can watch your followers grow in numbers — imagine the angst if the author drops in to comment; "Wow! Thanks to the many who have started following me and the many private messages saying how much this story meant to them and their marriage."

IMO, this is a category that is truly suited for a specific 'author account' for LW only.

I know this sounds rather brutal, but war is war and better them than me

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

One of the first things I learned from this group once i started publishing in LIT was "avoid posting in LW" Sad but true.

 

[gordo12]

One of the first things I learned from this group once i started publishing in LIT was "avoid posting in LW" Sad but true.

Never listen to groupthink. Go get your own experience.

Sadly so many of the comments you hear in AH about LW are from authors that DON'T post in it. You know, my uncle's third cousin once heard from his barber that the plumber...

 

[ElectricBlue]

Never listen to groupthink. Go get your own experience.

Sadly so many of the comments you hear in AH about LW are from authors that DON'T post in it. You know, my uncle's third cousin once heard from his barber that the plumber...

Many of the comments from authors in AH are from people who have read the stories and commentary that goes on there, and decided they want no part of it. Don't mock a judgement made by people reading the material presented, and making their own minds up. You choose to write there, others don't. So what? I don't read or write non-con, either, because it doesn't interest me. What's sad about that?

 

[Zeb_Carter]

BillandKate I too write in LW. I have read some of your stories and really liked them. I have written both BTB and RAAC and a lot of just couples having fun together with others.

Most comments from the BTB crowd I just laugh at. Others are sometimes insightful and complementing.

You can find mine at the link in my sig.

 

[gordo12]

Many of the comments from authors in AH are from people who have read the stories and commentary that goes on there, and decided they want no part of it. Don't mock a judgement made by people reading the material presented, and making their own minds up. You choose to write there, others don't. So what? I don't read or write non-con, either, because it doesn't interest me. What's sad about that?

What's sad about it EB is that so many offer opinions that aren't backed up by reading or writing in the category. You're assuming they are. There's no evidence they are or aren't. We'd need to start asking people what their actual experience is when they post. And there are so few in here that it wouldn't form a reliable pool of data anyway.

This was his comment: "One of the first things I learned from this group once i started publishing in LIT was "avoid posting in LW" Notice the LEARNED from this group. His/her expectations were already formed before he/she read, wrote or ???

That's what bugs me. I don't write or post in Incest or Non-consent. But I don't sit in AH and disparage the genres. I would point out that one of the rules in these forums is to be kind to everybody's kinks. A lot of the posts in AH over LW ignore that. Not that I'm crying in my beer over that. My skin is much thicker than that.

 

[RejectReality]

Unless outrageous abuse in text form is your sexual kink, it has nothing to do with that.

Most of the advice comes in the form of suggestions to expect low scores and nasty commentary if you post in LW. Secondarily there's a suggestion of creating an alt specifically for those stories, to avoid the blowback on your other work ( which there is more than enough accumulated anecdotal evidence to support. I've had three "runs" on mine over the years where a nasty comment on a LW story started a string of nearly identical comments and low scoring through my entire list ) Finally, there's a suggestion to select another important element of your story and categorize it that way to avoid the shark tank that is LW altogether.

There's no kink shaming going on. It's the exact opposite. We're informing people to expect venomous kink shaming if they post to LW.

You'll see the exact same kind of warnings and information about other readership bugaboos. Post incest content outside the category without an up-front warning, and you'd better expect low scores and harsh commentary. Post non-con in the incest category, and you'd better expect low scores and harsh commentary. Post GM content anywhere except the GM category and you'd better expect low scores and nasty commentary.

GM is probably the most comparable example, because it does regularly generate trolls who will spill their rage over into other stories.

Suggesting the warnings delivered here are kink shaming quite frankly feels like an attempt to shut the discussion down with a soundbite.

What's sad about it EB is that so many offer opinions that aren't backed up by reading or writing in the category. You're assuming they are. There's no evidence they are or aren't. We'd need to start asking people what their actual experience is when they post. And there are so few in here that it wouldn't form a reliable pool of data anyway.

This was his comment: "One of the first things I learned from this group once i started publishing in LIT was "avoid posting in LW" Notice the LEARNED from this group. His/her expectations were already formed before he/she read, wrote or ???

That's what bugs me. I don't write or post in Incest or Non-consent. But I don't sit in AH and disparage the genres. I would point out that one of the rules in these forums is to be kind to everybody's kinks. A lot of the posts in AH over LW ignore that. Not that I'm crying in my beer over that. My skin is much thicker than that.

 

[gordo12]

Suggesting the warnings delivered here are kink shaming quite frankly feels like an attempt to shut the discussion down with a soundbite.

Nothing of the sort. But there have been comments made about LW that are quite evocative of contempt, derision etc. That I don't appreciate. Like I said though, thick skin.

But for the record I agree with B&K's original post. It's long past the time to split LW into something a little less confrontational.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Deleted

 

[SimonDoom]

I would point out that one of the rules in these forums is to be kind to everybody's kinks. A lot of the posts in AH over LW ignore that. Not that I'm crying in my beer over that. My skin is much thicker than that.

Gordo, I see no evidence of this whatsoever. What is your evidence of this?

The complaint here at AH is not about others' kinks. It's about the almost pathological intolerance by the BTB crowd (or whatever you want to call it) of certain kinds of stories published in Loving Wives.

I HAVE published a story to Loving Wives, and I've read many, many stories published at Loving Wives, and I've read countless comments posted in response to those stories, so I know what I'm talking about.

I don't understand the appeal of stories about getting revenge against cheating wives. I don't get it. There's nothing erotic about such stories, but they seem to be popular with many readers. But if that's what some people want to read, that's fine with me. I would never 1-bomb such a story just because I objected to its subject matter. But the BTB crowd does NOT reciprocate my tolerance. Many, many of these readers routinely, reflexively 1-bomb stories where wives have sex outside of marriage and get away with it. It doesn't matter how good the story is. That's what AH contributors are concerned about.

 

[nerfvibrator]

The ebb and flow of what's popular will never change. In random stories I see hot wife stories and willing cuck stories with Red-H and three digit favs, but they were posted in 2005 or so. I see stories which make no sense to have such high scores and favorites, so it must be possible to game the system.
When they started bunching the comments to three or four times a day, the complexion of whats popular seemed to change

 

[ElectricBlue]

This was his comment: "One of the first things I learned from this group once i started publishing in LIT was "avoid posting in LW" Notice the LEARNED from this group. His/her expectations were already formed before he/she read, wrote or ???

That's what bugs me.

Fair comment. I agree that folk should make their own mind up, from a sample of content.

I did that in pretty short time, months before I discovered the AH. I was astonished at some of the LW content (that's erotic? Not in my world), but more so the bile in the commentary. It was clear to me that some folk had made that into an art form, and I thought, "Nope, that's not for me." It was only later that I understood the divide between the tribes. "Whoa, people think like that?" Shudder.

 

[gordo12]

Gordo, I see no evidence of this whatsoever. What is your evidence of this?

The complaint here at AH is not about others' kinks. It's about the almost pathological intolerance by the BTB crowd (or whatever you want to call it) of certain kinds of stories published in Loving Wives.

I HAVE published a story to Loving Wives, and I've read many, many stories published at Loving Wives, and I've read countless comments posted in response to those stories, so I know what I'm talking about.

I don't understand the appeal of stories about getting revenge against cheating wives. I don't get it. There's nothing erotic about such stories, but they seem to be popular with many readers. But if that's what some people want to read, that's fine with me. I would never 1-bomb such a story just because I objected to its subject matter. But the BTB crowd does NOT reciprocate my tolerance. Many, many of these readers routinely, reflexively 1-bomb stories where wives have sex outside of marriage and get away with it. It doesn't matter how good the story is. That's what AH contributors are concerned about.

That's you Simon. You're far more open minded that most people. But one story isn't really a great data set to work from. If you want evidence go back into some of the threads and read them.

Edit: I had a whole set of figures I was going to post but then thought what's the point. The comments you talk about amounted to about 1/10 of 1% of the downloads. If a few negative comments send you running for the door and throwing away the other 99.9%, so be it.

Loving wives is a highly responsive, high commenting, high voting place to write in. For a writer starting out and learning like I am it's a crucible of fire and I can't think of a better place to train.

 

[gordo12]

Fair comment. I agree that folk should make their own mind up, from a sample of content.

I did that in pretty short time, months before I discovered the AH. I was astonished at some of the LW content (that's erotic? Not in my world), but more so the bile in the commentary. It was clear to me that some folk had made that into an art form, and I thought, "Nope, that's not for me." It was only later that I understood the divide between the tribes. "Whoa, people think like that?" Shudder.

I understand when people don't find it erotic. That's ok. A lot of what I read in there I don't find erotic either. But the drama... It's in the drama for me. And some of those negative, "you're an idiot because..." have been the most educational comments I've gotten. Because sometimes they're right.

I don't need the "you done good" comments although they're appreciated. I need the "you fucked up", what were you thinking kind of feedback. And they're not shy in that regard.

There are tribes there but it's surprising what you can learn from listening to them.

Overall I enjoy writing in there and honestly think most of you are missing an opportunity to test yourself against a tough crowd.

JMO