Those damned dots ...

[snoopercharmbrights]

I recently was gently chided by an author who quoted S&W at me about the positioning of the period in US English. Please can someone explain what is wrong with the following examples:

He said, "I think the word should be 'darn' and not 'damn' in your crossword."

and

He said, "I think the word should be 'darn' and not 'damn'."

I maintain that the single quotes are associated in each case with a single word and are not quotation marks in the true sense, since the substitution of italics, or even the omission of the single quotes completely would make no difference to the meaning. Is this true only of UK English, and does US English allow the period to wander in and out of the quotes ad lib?


PS SR71plt: You are still on ignore, so don't waste your time answering a mere mortal like me.

 

[meg1]

If he's on ignore, then how can you find out what the Chicago Manual says about it? I much prefer to allow him to look it up than to look it up myself. I run to the lazy side, and never balk when someone else is willing to do all the hard work. Though, I have to admit, I wish he would quote more than one manual, so that when I quote him without giving him credit, I will sound smarter because I can quote more than one manual.

Actually, it would be nice if he would quote APA or AMA rather than CMA, because I have to use those two styles most often in college and it seems to me like they should be good for here as well.

Sorry, that was an aside, anyway, back to your question. I agree. I would keep the single quotes, and the period would never go within the single quote, until you were using a quote within a quote.
For example:

Mary was complaining again, "Did you hear Mark in class? 'Your story was flat and unimaginative,' I can't stand him. He's not all that good."

I know that you don't HAVE to have the single quotes in the example that you gave, but I like them in it. It still stands that you will not put the period within the single quote in your example.

 

[desertslave]

Your examples are correct. In the second example, the single quote belongs to the word 'damn', but the period belongs to the entire sentence. Note where I just put that comma in the last sentence. It's outside the word because it belongs to the entire phrase. I know that sounds simplistic. I can remember how it's supposed to work but not the proper term for why it works that way.

 

[J.Q. Hack]

I looked through my copy of Strunk and White and their advice seems to run counter to a couple of punctuation websites I quickly looked through. I think Snooper is correct in his period placement.

Has anybody else found Strunk and White to be less than reliable in other areas too?

J.Q.

 

[emap]

I just agree with snoopy as a matter of course, he somehow finds a way to stomach reading my stuff and editing it.

That said though I am agreeing that both of your examples are perfectly correct, though the first one makes tons more sense. I don't look at those silly manuals, I still remember english classes way back and how entirely boring they were. I'd really rather not fall asleep reading a book, I get yelled at if I drool on keyboards or books.

Besides, whoever was arguing with you apparently never went to school, a period is found at the end of a sentence, not in the middle.

Meg1 if you ask me, there should not be a period after the comment, the single quotation marks mark it as being seperate from the rest of the sentence just as well as adding a period. My teacher was rather fond of telling us there is such a thing as to much punctuation.

 

[meg1]

how about a comma? i have trouble coming up w/ examples on the fly

but it would go w/i the single quote regardless because it's a quote within a quote

 

[emap]

Yes a comma goes wherever there is a change in the sentence. I can't remember all of the occassions but as near as I can remember anytime the sentence changes subject or verse that does not call for a new sentence there is a comma. If it comes after the single quotation marks it goes in the marks.

Am I the only one who thinks english is incredibly complex without needing to be?

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

how about a comma? ...

To find where you need commas, just read it aloud. Where you pause for a moment, put a comma. Where you pause for a little longer, put a full stop. Where you pause for breath, put a new paragraph. If you have access to Microsoft Reader (a free download from http://www.microsoft.com/reader/downloads/default.asp) have it read the words to you; that way you will also spot the missing words and the typos.

 

[emap]

Oh my gosh, that's how you stand to edit my stuff. I would so be calling you a cheat, except dang I'm half tempted to get that and do it myself. Course then you may not have to edit my stories again and well I'm a little sadistic I'm just gonna make you do it.

Anyway, I do it that way, and then that darn annoying Microsoft Word says hey this is wrong. Though probably has more to do with I have an old way of placing commas anyway.

Though odd thing, your word and my word have different ideas on commas sometimes, I have no idea why.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I recently was gently chided by an author who quoted S&W at me about the positioning of the period in US English. Please can someone explain what is wrong with the following examples:

He said, "I think the word should be 'darn' and not 'damn' in your crossword."

and

He said, "I think the word should be 'darn' and not 'damn'."

I maintain that the single quotes are associated in each case with a single word and are not quotation marks in the true sense, since the substitution of italics, or even the omission of the single quotes completely would make no difference to the meaning. Is this true only of UK English, and does US English allow the period to wander in and out of the quotes ad lib?


PS SR71plt: You are still on ignore, so don't waste your time answering a mere mortal like me.

As far as I'm concerned, you're right, Snooper!

 

[sharingfantasies]

Yes a comma goes wherever there is a change in the sentence. I can't remember all of the occassions but as near as I can remember anytime the sentence changes subject or verse that does not call for a new sentence there is a comma. If it comes after the single quotation marks it goes in the marks.

Am I the only one who thinks english is incredibly complex without needing to be?

When I teach English to second language learners, I always start off saying that English is a stupidly complex language and I am extremely grateful it is my first language. There are just too many linguistic groups that put their two cents into the language. Darn that island for being taken over repeated by different groups. LOL Of course the spelling is ridiculous and could be easily cleaned up but every time someone suggests cleaning up the language or even the way we measure, people freak out, so everything stays the same.

I am soooo glad I didn't have to learn English later in life.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

Oh my gosh, that's how you stand to edit my stuff. ... Though odd thing, your word and my word have different ideas on commas sometimes, I have no idea why.

Actually, I don't use it to edit other people's stories. Where I disagree with your Word, please accept what I tell every author every time I edit:

I cannot emphasise too strongly that these comments are my opinions and it is your story. Please feel free to ignore any of the comments.

 

[emap]

I wasn't complaining just a weird thing I've noticed a couple times.

Sharing your right, learning english first is the best way to learn it, that said though, knowing english makes learning everything else harder simply because no other language uses a sentence structure like english. Which is honestly where I get lost, how did that happen?