This may piss some people off but...

[Betticus]

http://www.john-ross.net/feminism.htm

It was an interesting read. I've gone through this guys columns and it just keeps making sense.

Any thoughts?

 

[rosco rathbone]

That's how my mother did it. Had me @24, started her career at 40, rose to top.

 

[sexymom]

I don't think the article addresses the goals or principles of feminism. It is based on the premise that a woman's value to men is mostly her ability to bear children. That is as true as the idea that a man's value to a woman is mostly that he has a penis.

Hmmm- not sure it's wrong after all.

 

[Betticus]

http://www.dontmarry.com/

Here is an interesting link from that other story on why it is not in a man's interest to marry.

 

[bridgeburner]

http://www.john-ross.net/feminism.htm

It was an interesting read. I've gone through this guys columns and it just keeps making sense.

Any thoughts?

That's largely because he keeps saying the same thing over and over and over.

 

[Guest]

Interesting stuff..

First article is great - very thoughtful, well written - and true as anything! Just the facts. I'm not convinced that feminism (or feminaziism) is a real good thing in a lot of ways. Or maybe there are just a lot of very angry women out there that need someone to hate. The basis of the article to me seems to say that there is a very basic difference between men and women - something which the hard core man haters refuse to belive. There's a lot more to it than having babies, but it's the most obvious one.

The second article..hmmm. There are a lot of valid points raised, but it is biased. There's only the man's side - but perhaps that is the whole point.
Me - I work my day job, now work with him at his home business, take night school, trying to set up my own home business - but the housework is only done when I get to it or he has company coming. I have pretty much complete care of my son (shared custody with my ex), and our animal babies. He was a professional chef for 20-odd years and can make a meal from nothing in a matter of minutes - I cook - slowly, painfully, and most times out of a can or box, but once again, when company comes over - he goes in to high gear and once again I hear "what a lucky girl you are".

I joined his sport for 7 years to share time with him in something he really loves and is his passion. My passions? Umm - no time.

Fortunately for me (and him!) - we have some pretty fabulous sex..

The same argument "Not to be married" can be made for women on a similarly biased (opposite viewpoint) piece. The one thing that is the same for both sexes is that life ain't fair..

 

[sincerely_helene]

That's largely because he keeps saying the same thing over and over and over.

Hee hee!

 

[graceanne]

Oh boy you guys just opened up a kettle of fish. I personally do not consider myself a feminist, but some people would. Cause the original feminist movement was about a woman having a choice. Now days it's about a woman having a choice as long as it's not staying home with their kids.

There I said it before catalina.

Beyond that, what he says makes sense, sorta. What about men who don't want children? What are they looking for in women? What does she have they they don't? I'd say that men are looking for more than a woman who can have children.

 

[graceanne]

http://www.dontmarry.com/

Here is an interesting link from that other story on why it is not in a man's interest to marry.

I know that he stated that their's exceptions to the rule, but I knwo a lot of these exceptions. Neither I, my sister, or any of my girl cousins (and their's a lot of us) are anything like this. We all have small engagement rings and wedding rings. Our weddings cause under a couple hundred dollars (and our parents paid for that). We, also, were interested in the future. We knew that our fiancee's couldn't afford anything larger and we wanted THEM not the engagement ring or the fancy wedding. We'd have eloped if they'd agreed.

Also, if K wanted me to work I would have. He gets really pissy when I even suggest working, let me tell you. I also came to the table with NO debt and he came with enough that we eventually had to go bankrupt. (Also his fault, we'd have been able to afford the payments if he hadn't gotten a DUII.) And I can guarantee that none of my cousins, or my sister, had any debt when they got married.

Quite frankly if a man ends up in a relationship like this then it's his fault for not paying attention. Men go into relationship thinking with there dicks. They're thinking she's so beautiful, she's so fun to be around, she's so hot in bed. They are not thinking 'OMG she just bought me THIS for christmas? Her credit cards must be sky high', or 'she wants WHAT?'. They are not looking at compatability. A man who's saving and looking to the future SHOULD NOT date a woman who makes a meager living but still dressses in the highest style. They should NOT date a woman who works as a waitress and owns a brand new car. They should NOT date a woman who works as a checker at the local grocery store and has tons of beautiful jewelry. (Unless they inherited it from family or something.) I mean, use your brains.

They also should find out, when the relationship starts to get serious, if the woman wants to stay home when they ahve kids. They should be asking things like this, cause MONEY IS THE NUMER ONE REASON FOR DIVORCE IN AMERICA.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I think he's got some good points, if a bit flawed. The question of how a young 20something girl meets a somewhat older man is a good one. But at the same time, I don't think feminism has truly accomplished what it set out to. There should be equality, certainly, but at the same time, we are made differently for specific reasons. We need to celebrate those differences rather than try to do away with them as feminism would have us do. And I think marrying too young isn't a good thing. Until you're 25 or so, you usually don't really know who you are and what you really want, so marrying before that can create problems later on.

That said, I do agree with him that having your children before you're 30 and being able to stay home with them until they are grown is the optimum. (Okay, ladies, don't get upset. It's just my opinion.) But fulltime moms who are smart and educated need intellectual outlets. I know in my marriage (and yes, he was much older than I was), my ex was too tired when he came home to do that. He just wanted to sit around watching tv or reading, not to interact with me. So I spent all day alone with small children, maybe interacting with other moms, then got to spend all evening sitting around doing nothing and waiting to be needed. And if he was home, he wanted me home, so there weren't options for any kind of life outside the marriage. Like babygrrl, I participated in his hobbies, but mine were pushed aside. While his needs were being met, mine weren't, so yes, I eventually left. I think that is one reason why so many women do initiate divorce - men are getting all of their needs met in marriage but women aren't. Why stay with something that isn't working for you and that he doesn't see as a problem?

There is another point here that no one has mentioned, though, that I just can't resist talking about. In the article, he says something about women getting that career when they're older and then the men retiring to play golf or something. Why is it that people don't see fulltime moms as having a job? Until you've been a fulltime mom, you can't possibly realize how much work it actually is. Why would a woman want to spend 16+ years working fulltime at home raising her family, then have her career span into retirement years while her husband gets to relax? Why can't they retire together, or she retire shortly after he does if age is a factor, and BOTH spend those years relaxing with each other? If you've truly married someone you do like spending time with, it seems to me that you would want that, too.

I think the difference between what this guy is saying and what many men end up wanting (in my opinion) is that he wants a woman who is an intellectual equal. He wants a woman who has a brain and knows how to use it. Someone who is well read and can carry on an intelligent conversation. My ex had a hard time dealing with my level of intelligence because it intimidated him. Probably one of the reasons he continued to try to mold me into something I wasn't. I think it's difficult for intelligent women to find men who aren't intimidated by their intelligence, no matter what age they are.

Like I said, don't shoot me. It's just my opinion.

 

[graceanne]

Like I said, don't shoot me. It's just my opinion.

BANG.

 

[BeachGurl2]

BANG.

Well, thanks for that, Gracie. Wondered how fast it would actually happen.

 

[graceanne]

Well, thanks for that, Gracie. Wondered how fast it would actually happen.

I tried to resist, really I did. But I just couldn't.

I'm so weak.

 

[BeachGurl2]

I tried to resist, really I did. But I just couldn't.

I'm so weak.

Well, I did give you the perfect target, didn't I?

 

[graceanne]

Well, I did give you the perfect target, didn't I?

Pun intended?

 

[BeachGurl2]

Of course.

 

[Netzach]

That's really logical if you still want to spawn more than anything at 46 and in the midst of an otherwise rewarding life, and you think the Lee Iacocca is a better catch than the pool boy.

Do considerably successful men all just want someone to have babies for them? I would imagine the companionship of a peer who knows what you know would have some value, but maybe not, maybe it's redundant.

I'd go find me a pretty indie guitar boy to bang my brains out and have a good time doing it. And I'd seriously consider WHY spawning is so important. I think most women do it because all their friends are and babies are cute and don't think ahead to the screaming 14 year old.

 

[Betticus]

I personally am turned on by highly intelligent women. And I like them to have an evil streak and a sharp tongue. Well, with everyone but me that is.

 

[rosco rathbone]

And I like them to have an evil streak and a sharp tongue. Well, with everyone but me that is.

Just thinking about this dichotomy today.

 

[Betticus]

Just thinking about this dichotomy today.

Hey! She knows who holds her leash.