This fucking war is becoming more of a joke each day...

[p_p_man]

From today's Guardian

"Downing Street was last night plunged into acute international embarrassment after it emerged that large parts of the British government's latest dossier on Iraq - allegedly based on "intelligence material" - were taken from published academic articles, some of them several years old.

Amid charges of "scandalous" plagiarism on the night when Tony Blair attempted to rally support for the US-led campaign against Saddam Hussein, Whitehall's dismay was compounded by the knowledge that the disputed document was singled out for praise by the US secretary of state, Colin Powell, in his speech to the UN security council on Wednesday.

Citing the British dossier, entitled Iraq - its infrastructure of concealment, deception and intimidation in front of a worldwide television audience Mr Powell said: "I would call my colleagues' attention to the fine paper that the United Kingdom distributed... which describes in exquisite detail Iraqi deception activities."

Last night Blair was put under the spotlight by one of our more predatory journalists, Jeremy Paxman. Taking into account that Paxman doesn't know the meaning of the phrase 'pulling his punches' the Prime Minister gave a reasonable account of himself in debating minor points but on the big issue of 'Why war? Why now?, it was obvious he was floundering.

Trapped into contradictions he looked like a man who didn't really believe in Bush's war himself...

The UK will still fight, no doubt about that, but Blair is slowly and surely digging his political grave.

Gordon Brown, our Chancellor of the Exchequer and the man Blair beat for the leadership of the Party, is waiting eagerly in the wings...

ppman

 

[p_p_man]

To give you some idea of what Paxman's like...

When he asked Blair whether he believed American intelligence reports, the Prime Minister gave the expected answer of yes.

Paxman pounced and reminded Blair that there were plenty of dead people in an asprin factory in the Sudan who wouldn't believe them...

Blair floundered...but quickly recovered, smiled and said 'Yes...but...'

ppman

 

[busybody..]

ASS=per=in was a Clinton fuck up.

Bush is ALWAYS right

 

[Frimost]

Paxman pounced and reminded Blair that there were plenty of dead people in an asprin factory in the Sudan who wouldn't believe them...

pp_man, pp_man, pp_man.... shaking head...

Don't you get it yet, you scarf up propaganda just as readily as the people you accuse of doing so yourself.

That factory was bombed at night when every one was home from work sleeping. There was only one fatality in Sudan, a night security guard...

 

[m4m4 l0n9]

Agreed

 

[p_p_man]

That factory was bombed at night when every one was home from work sleeping. There was only one fatality in Sudan, a night security guard...

So you say...

Give me a link...



ppman

 

[Frimost]

Sudanese mob attacks U.S. embassy after air strike

Sudan television read the names of at least seven men who it said were wounded in the attack on the plant. At least three appeared seriously wounded, one with a gaping head wound.

The one with the gaping head wound later died of his injuries in the hospital, the rest recovered.

 

[p_p_man]

Sudanese mob attacks U.S. embassy after air strike



The one with the gaping head wound later died of his injuries in the hospital, the rest recovered.

OK Paxman was wrong to say 'plenty of dead'...

But the Prime Minister still floundered...

ppman

 

[Ham Murabi]

So you say...

Give me a link...



ppman

I don't need a link to tell you the aspirin factory was bombed while Clinton was in the throes of his latest embarrassment. In fact, the bombing (as I recall) occurred during the impeachment process.
There was no real reason for the U.S. attack, other than to divert the public's attention from a pressing matter regarding national integrity and the sanctity of the White House and its occupant. It gave a number of Americans the chance to say, "hey, what the fuck, the president's doing something about this and you won't give him a break."
I had a chance to speak to a U.S. Senator about the aspirin factory a couple of weeks later. He defended the action, half-heartedly. Later, of course, the U.S. paid for the damages.

 

[p_p_man]

I don't need a link to tell you the aspirin factory was bombed while Clinton

I wasn't asking for a link about who authorised the bombing but about the number of deaths...

It's already been answered...

ppman

 

[EllieTalbot]

How very selective of you, peepee.

 

[Coolville]

Doctoring the "Proof"

Yeah, amazing that the dossier was plagiarised from old documents and the Americans used it Powell's speech.

Puts all the other proof under suspicion.

The Scandinavian governments have had independent experts look at Powell's proof to make sure it is real.

Imagine that. That's how questionable the White House has become in this little propaganda war. Governments of western countries - even some that support the war under a UN banner - paying for indepedent apraisals of the proof.

One expert, who owns a satelite imaging company in Sweden, said that the satellite photos were not doctored, but the location couldn't be confirmed. If the coordinates were given, then he could have sent one of his satelites over the area to confirm things.

This "war" is so different from all the rest. America's credibility is tarnished. In the past, newsreaders would say,"The Americans say..." but now it's all "The Americans CLAIM..." or "ALLEGEDLY this or that..."

Which is the same thing they say about what comes out of Baghdad.

Two dodgy nations fighting a propaganda war. Amusing.

 

[Coolville]

There was no real reason for the U.S. attack, other than to divert the public's attention from a pressing matter regarding national integrity and the sanctity of the White House and its occupant. It gave a number of Americans the chance to say, "hey, what the fuck, the president's doing something about this and you won't give him a break."

Funny how this sounds familiar.

Just replace "a pressing matter regarding national integrity and the sanctity of the White House and its occupant

with

the President's inability to catch Osama bin Laden and his disregard for domestic problems...

Spinspinspin.

 

[Ham Murabi]

I wasn't asking for a link about who authorised the bombing but about the number of deaths...

It's already been answered...

ppman

And you no doubt preferred the ineffectual response of our fearless leader at that time, rather than someone who is actually responding to real and immediate threats.
Oh, I forgot, you think Saddam is benign.

 

[TWB]

Coolville.

Nicely stated and argued.

 

[Coolville]

Threats?!

Get real. It amuses me when Bush rattles on about "defending ourselves..."

From what? Saddam is the most overrated bad guy in the history of man. He has only been elevated to his status because of White House spin and propaganda. Oh, and he has oil.

Osama is the one you should defend yourself against. Oh, but you couldn't find him. I forgot.

There are a dozen dictators out there who are nastier than Saddam but they must be kicking themselves for not getting any good press.

Hissein Habre Abeche is one.

 

[TWB]

Apparently North Korea is no threat.

 

[Coolville]

Krazy Kim is the goofiest dictator in history.
That hair, that jumpsuit.
He's the biggest single purchaser of cognac in the world.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Doctoring the "Proof"

Yeah, amazing that the dossier was plagiarised from old documents and the Americans used it Powell's speech.

Puts all the other proof under suspicion.

The Scandinavian governments have had independent experts look at Powell's proof to make sure it is real.

Imagine that. That's how questionable the White House has become in this little propaganda war. Governments of western countries - even some that support the war under a UN banner - paying for indepedent apraisals of the proof.

One expert, who owns a satelite imaging company in Sweden, said that the satellite photos were not doctored, but the location couldn't be confirmed. If the coordinates were given, then he could have sent one of his satelites over the area to confirm things.

This "war" is so different from all the rest. America's credibility is tarnished. In the past, newsreaders would say,"The Americans say..." but now it's all "The Americans CLAIM..." or "ALLEGEDLY this or that..."

Which is the same thing they say about what comes out of Baghdad.

Two dodgy nations fighting a propaganda war. Amusing.

Nice comments...

ppman

 

[TWB]

Krazy Kim is the goofiest dictator in history.
That hair, that jumpsuit.
He's the biggest single purchaser of cognac in the world.

And he is going nooklur.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Threats?!

Get real. It amuses me when Bush rattles on about "defending ourselves..."

From what? Saddam is the most overrated bad guy in the history of man. He has only been elevated to his status because of White House spin and propaganda. Oh, and he has oil.

Osama is the one you should defend yourself against. Oh, but you couldn't find him. I forgot.

There are a dozen dictators out there who are nastier than Saddam but they must be kicking themselves for not getting any good press.

Hissein Habre Abeche is one.

And it amuses me when people defend a "leader" such as Saddam who reached his position by assassination and who rules his country with terror and genocide. As for the oil, we'll buy it.
If you know the whereabouts of Osama, let us know.

 

[TWB]

And it amuses me when people defend a "leader" such as Saddam who reached his position by assassination and who rules his country with terror and genocide. As for the oil, we'll buy it.
If you know the whereabouts of Osama, let us know.

That does not look like a defense of Saddam or his tactics. I think the point is that Saddam is not a threat to the US.

 

[teddybear4play]

That does not look like a defense of Saddam or his tactics. I think the point is that Saddam is not a threat to the US.

Then what does he have the chemical weapons for, a weenie roast?

TB4p

 

[TWB]

There has never been an indication that Saddam was using or planning to use chemical weapons on the US. By the way, if he used them for a weenie roast, the weenies would not be edible, so I doubt that was it.

 

[Coolville]

And it amuses me when people defend a "leader" such as Saddam who reached his position by assassination and who rules his country with terror and genocide. As for the oil, we'll buy it.
If you know the whereabouts of Osama, let us know.

Defending the man? Hardly. If you want to keep trying to play that morality card and say that you people are "doing the right thing", then why don't you concentrate on all the nasty dictators out there?

And where has this sudden American conscience come from? It doesn't suit you. Your government has never been concerned about morality when selling weapons and bioagents to Saddam and anyone else who wants to buy them.

If you want to do the right thing, stop arming these dictators. It'll save you from having to waste American lives and money in the long run.