This community.

[bluespoke]

Also, I'd like to come to terms with it for myself because soon this will end for me.

That sounds ominous, care to expand?

 

[glamorilla]

My dick is a poor excuse for a penis. You're not missing anything.

ok well how about talking tn into posting a few...let hanns do the same thing. see how your opinion changes then...

 

[intrigued]

glam, this isn't about that. I was hoping to gain a better understanding of the issue of personas, and insight into the appeal of message boards under the guise of personas.
What you may be referring to is small change compared to the positive aspects I've experienced. I appreciate what you were going for, though.

I don't see that I've held a gun to anyone to get them to respond...which leads me to you, Lance. Consider yourself a guinea pig if you must, that's not the word that came to mind for me. As I said in my PM, I want to write an essay or short story, as many others do, about internet interactions. Until I have interviewed you personally with your permission, you are NO guinea pig. The same goes for anyone else.

Screw your lovely link.

 

[glamorilla]

i know~but not entirely either.

i think it relates.

 

[sunstruck]

Problem child is a stingy scroogish bastard for not showing us his dick.


This is heart wrenching shit.

There is nothing about this post I don't like. lol

 

[Problem Child]

ok well how about talking tn into posting a few...let hanns do the same thing. see how your opinion changes then...

That's the whole point glammy.

If you expose yourself, someone IS going to take advantage of you. The internets is full of vicious sick fucks, and the only defense against them is to not give them any ammo. I have never posted a picture of myself here, and most people don't know anything about me, not even my age or profession. How often do you see me getting viciously attacked by a troll? Never.

I sympathize with Intrigued. She's had to put up with a lot of crap, and I've helped defend her a few times. But she put herself at risk by posting a LOT of personal info here. This isn't like being raped. If someone fucks with you here, you have only yourself to blame because it is totally 100% preventable.

It's not that hard a principle to grasp.

 

[KillerMuffin]

And that's really a major component in my questions. Responsibility. Do you feel more/less/equal responsibility for your words here, than you do elsewhere? Any at all? Why or why not?

Too much to address, so I'll just sort of hang out with this one.

I feel just as responsible for what I say here as in the physical world. Almost moreso sometimes.

Words are weapons, and my weapon of choice if I must fight. I know very well what a well placed remark can do to decimate someone's emotional well-being because I've made those well placed remarks to others. Here, particularly.

Whether or not "KillerMuffin" is the name beside them or not is irrelevant. I still made the remark and I am still accountable for it. This is why I don't troll unregistered. I believe that we are all responsible for our words and our emotions. We come to Lit, not with our real names (usually), but with an adopted name. Most of us begin online by "playing" at who we want to be, but that gets to be hard to do quickly because we are real people. We settle into online relationships--friendships, acquaintanceships, enimnities(sp?)--as ourselves because there's no way to settle into them as something we're not. And no matter what name you see beside my posts, you're getting words from me.

Some people have integrity and some don't. Some believe in the importance of personal honor, some don't. I do. I believe that if you're going to get sliced by my tongue or my opinions on the board, you're not going to be PMing me or IMing under a different name thinking I'm a wonderful person.

I am who I am. I'm incapable of carrying on a fiction of being somene else for long because, quite frankly, I don't have the ability to hide the highly recognizeable baser parts of myself.

In the real world I'm not much different. If you had lunch with me, you'd meet the same person you do on the boards, only quieter. I don't separate myself. I don't think of myself as "muffie" here and "{censored}" offline. I think of myself as "muffie" all the way around.

I don't even see separating KM from {censored} as an option because living a lie is just too hard to do.

 

[glamorilla]

That's the whole point glammy.

If you expose yourself, someone IS going to take advantage of you. The internets is full of vicious sick fucks, and the only defense against them is to not give them any ammo. I have never posted a picture of myself here, and most people don't know anything about me, not even my age or profession. How often do you see me getting viciously attacked by a troll? Never.

I sympathize with Intrigued. She's had to put up with a lot of crap, and I've helped defend her a few times. But she put herself at risk by posting a LOT of personal info here. This isn't like being raped. If someone fucks with you here, you have only yourself to blame because it is totally 100% preventable.

It's not that hard a principle to grasp.

yes mr.naughty school teacher.

 

[Rex1960]

Worth some thoughts, dear [removed]

Something I should know ??
Somebody's trying to piss at my pants trying to tell me it was raining ??

http://www.literotica.com/forum/sea...d=405539&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=3170221&highlight=Connie#post3170221


Are there any rules just for me ? I wouldn't mind to get a hint.

Thank you very much.

 

[KillerMuffin]

No, the rules aren't just for you.

Check the forum guidelines.

4. You may not post personal information of other members or, for that matter, anyone else. We do not allow phone numbers, email addresses, private messages or quotes from private emails to be posted on the forum. This rule also covers real names, employment info, and any other personal information that we deem inappropriate.



Or are you above the rules? You're posting your friends first name. What for? Because you want to give people who don't like her or want to hurt her more ammunition? Because you figure that the cats already out of the bag?


Laurel relies on the whole "report post to moderator" thing. In all likelihood, those posts were never reported.

 

[glamorilla]

i guess it all boils down to who and what you're afraid of.

 

[sexy-girl]

most of the older posters here or the posters that have hanged around for long enough aren't persona's their themselves

i've seen newer people post away and you can tell they are being a online persona but after a while when they are here for long enough they start being more of themselves ... not saying all new posters are like that


about what PC said i do think its still possible to be open on here without giving trolls to much ammo ... but if theres a way that something you're about to post could be used against you and would hurt/annoy you if it was then just don't post it

 

[Lancecastor]

Lance. Screw your lovely link.

No thanks, I won't be screwing my link. But here's a small bit of the material there that you might find interesting and helpful. Good luck with your article.



Identity Management in Cyberspace

Who are you in cyberspace? Am I the same John Suler I am in-person or someone a bit different? One of the interesting things about the internet is the opportunity if offers people to present themselves in a variety of different ways. You can alter your style of being just slightly or indulge in wild experiments with your identity by changing your age, history, personality, physical appearance, even your gender. The username you choose, the details you do or don't indicate about yourself, the information presented on your personal web page, the persona or avatar you assume in an online community - all are important aspects of how people manage their identity in cyberspace. Identity is a very complex aspect of human nature. Here are five interlocking factors that are useful in navigating that maze of how people manage who they are in cyberspace:


1. Level of Dissociation and Integration


A single person's identity embodies multiplicity. You possess many sectors within your personality and play numerous roles in your life - such as child, parent, student, employee, neighbor, friend. Cyberspace offers a niche for each of these specific facets of selfhood. Some people even talk about how we can "deconstruct" ourselves online. We don't have to present ourselves in toto - how we look, talk, move, our history, thoughts, feelings, and personality, all in one big package. In different environments, we can divvy up and present our characteristics in packets of various sizes and content. Thanks to thousands of online groups each devoted to a distinct professional, vocational, or personal topic, we can express, highlight, and develop specific interests and life experiences while setting aside others. You don't have to mention to your stock trading e-mail list that you also hang out at the "I Dream of Jeannie" fan club site. When you join an online community, you often have a choice about how much, if any, personal information you place into the members' profile database. Online communication tools even give you the choice about whether you want people to see how you look or hear your voice. The desire to remain anonymous reflects the need to eliminate those critical features of your identity that you do NOT want to display in that particular environment or group. The desire to lurk - to hide completely - indicates the person's need to split off his entire personal identity from his observing of those around him: he wants to look, but not be seen.

Compartmentalizing or dissociating one's various online identities like this can be an efficient, focused way to manage the multiplicities of selfhood. William James, one of the greatest of American psychologists, talked about how the normal mind operates in a "field" of consciousness in which one's awareness shifts among different hot spots of ideas, memories, and feelings. Role theory in social psychology speaks about how a successful life is an efficient juggling of the various tasks and positions we accumulate and develop from childhood through adulthood. Cyberspace living is yet another manifestation of this shifting, juggling maneuver. It gives people the opportunity to focus on and develop a particular aspect of who they are. It may even give people the chance to express and explore facets of their identity that they do not express in their face-to-face world. Everyone in Jim's in-person world may not know that he is a romantic medieval knight in an online role-playing game.

However, the importance of integrating the assorted components of selfhood should not be ignored. Bringing together the various components of online and offline identity into one balanced, harmonious whole may be the hallmark of mental health - what I like to call the "integration principle."


2. Positive and Negative Valence

The different components of who we are can be categorized as either positive or negative. There are some universal criteria that can help us distinguish the two. Most of the time we will criticize a person's need to hurt other people and applaud compassion. But it's not necessary to present universal truisms about good and bad. Subjectively, a person can feel shame, guilt, fear, anxiety, or hatred about some aspect of their identity, while accepting and appreciating other aspects. People also strive to attain new, idealized ways of being. Those who act out in cyberspace - who are in some way hurting or violating the rights of others, or hurting themselves - are usually discharging some negatively charged aspect of their psyche. This purely cathartic act often goes no where. An insecure, passive-aggressive person gets stuck in an endless stream of online arguments. Others may use cyberspace as a opportunity to exercise their positive characteristics, or to develop new ones in a process of "self-actualization." Online romances, even those involving a clearly recognized element of fantasy, can be growth-promoting. In some cases people may express a negative trait in an attempt to work through it. They are trying to transform the negative feature of their identity into a positive one, or perhaps change their attitude about that feature. A gay person who learns to accept his homosexuality as a result of participation in an online support group has changed the valence from negative to positive.

Whether we view something about ourselves as positive or negative can become a complex issue. Is it good or bad that a person tends to be quiet? Sometimes we have mixed feelings. We are ambivalent. The various environments and styles of communication on the internet serve as a flexible testing ground for exploring those intertwining pluses and minuses. In back-channel e-mail, a fellow lurker in a listserv for professionals may help the quiet person learn the value of being silent in some situations. In a chat room, that same quiet person comes to realize the freedom and delight of spontaneously opening up, and how that leads to friendships.


3. Level of Fantasy or Reality

In some online groups - for example, professional e-mail lists - you are expected to present yourself as you truly are. You don't pretend to be someone other than your true identity. Other groups in cyberspace encourage or even require that you assume an imaginary persona, as in the fantasy worlds of MOOs, MUDs, and other game environments. In multimedia chat communities, you have no choice but to wear an imaginative looking avatar to represent yourself. Many other environments fall somewhere in between reality and fantasy. You could get away with pretending to be someone very different than who you are, or you could alter just a few features - like your name, occupation, or physical appearance - while retaining your other true characteristics. No one will know, especially in text-only environments. In fact, you don't know for sure if other people are altering their identities, or how many people are altering their identities. This power to alter oneself often interlocks with dissociation and valence. Hidden positive and negative parts of oneself may seek expression in an imaginary identity that comes to life online.

The tricky phenomenological issue with the real versus fantasy self is this: What is one's TRUE identity? We usually assume it must be the self that you present to others and consciously experience in your day-to-day living. But is that the true self? Many people walk around in their f2f lives wearing "masks" that are quite different than how they think and feel internally. All the time people are discovering things about their personality that they never realized before. Our daydreams and fantasies often reveal hidden aspects of what we need or wish to be. If people drop the usual f2f persona and bring to life online those hidden or fantasied identities, might not that be in some ways MORE true or "real"?


4. Level of Conscious Awareness and Control

How we decide to present ourselves in cyberspace isn't always a purely conscious choice. Some aspects of identity are hidden below the surface. Covert wishes and inclinations leak out in roundabout or disguised ways without our even knowing it. We're not always aware of how we dissociate parts of our identity or even of the emotional valence we attach to them. A person selects a username or avatar on a whim, because it appeals to him, without fully understanding the deeper symbolic meanings of that choice. Or she joins an online group because it seems interesting while failing to realize the motives concealed in that decision. The anonymity, fantasy, and numerous variety of online environments give ample opportunity for this expression of unconscious needs and emotions. One good example is "transference."

People vary greatly in the degree to which they are consciously aware of and control their identity in cyberspace. For example, some people who role play imaginary characters report how the characters may take on a life of their own. They temporarily have surrendered their normal identity to the imaginary persona, perhaps later understanding the meaning of this transformation. Those who are acting out their underlying negative impulses - like the typical "snert" - usually have little insight into why they do so. By contrast, attempts to work through conflicted aspects of identity necessarily entails a conscious grappling with the unconscious elements of one's personality. Striving in cyberspace to be a "better" person also requires at least some conscious awareness - a premeditated vision of where one is headed. Some people, on their own, make a fully intentional choice about who they want to be in cyberspace. Some are partially aware of their choice and with help or through experience become more aware. Others resist any self-insight at all. They live under the illusion that they are in control of themselves.


5. The Media Chosen

We express our identity in the clothes we wear, in our body language, through the careers and hobbies we pursue. We can think of these things as the media through which we communicate who we are. Similarly, in cyberspace, people choose a specific communication channel to express themselves. There are a variety of possibilities and combinations of possibilities, each choice giving rise to specific attributes of identity. People who rely on text communication prefer the semantics of language and perhaps also the linear, composed, rational, analytic dimensions of self that surface via written discourse. They may be the "verbalizers" that have been described in the cognitive psychology literature - as opposed to "visualizers" who may enjoy the more symbolic, imagistic, and holistic reasoning that is expressed via the creation of avatars and web graphics. Some people prefer synchronous communication - like chat - which reflects the spontaneous, free-form, witty, and temporally "present" self. Others are drawn to the more thoughtful, reflective, and measured style of asynchronous communication, as in message boards and e-mail. There are personalities that want to show and not receive too much by using web cams or creating web pages; to receive and not show too much by lurking or web browsing; and still others who want to dive into highly interactive social environments where both showing and receiving thrive.

The media chosen can intimately interlock with the degree of identity integration and dissociation, and with the extent to which a person presents a real or imaginary self. One interesting question concerning the future of the internet is whether people will want to use audio and video tools. Do they want others to experience their identity as if it were a f2f meeting, with voice and body language? Or will they prefer the alternative communication pathways in order to express their identity in new and different ways?

 

[Rex1960]

No, the rules aren't just for you.

Check the forum guidelines.

4. You may not post personal information of other members or, for that matter, anyone else. We do not allow phone numbers, email addresses, private messages or quotes from private emails to be posted on the forum. This rule also covers real names, employment info, and any other personal information that we deem inappropriate.



Or are you above the rules? You're posting your friends first name. What for? Because you want to give people who don't like her or want to hurt her more ammunition? Because you figure that the cats already out of the bag?


Laurel relies on the whole "report post to moderator" thing. In all likelihood, those posts were never reported.

Oh is that really so ?

Last time i reported a post from Hanns violating guidline #5 nothing happened

You probably don't need this reminder:
5. Do not threaten other users.


KM, I'm not quite sure what to think about it


but i find dear_______ (fill in the name the specific user gave away himself in hundreds of posts)

in no way more hurtful than

I'll kill your mother, _________, you cuntless bitch (fill in the users handle)

Sorry, KM .... no pun intent, I'm just curious.



And my cordial apologies to Intrigued,
I never ever wanted to hurt her by typing her name

 

[intrigued]

PC....you are absolutely correct, I brought it all on myself, and have said so repeatedly. I learned hard lessons that will stick with my always, they cannot be undone.
This had nothing to do with trolling. This has to to with personas on message boards, and the appeal and impact of message boards.


KM, I really like the last line of your post above regarding responsibility. Thanks.

 

[sexy-girl]

often people will tell you their first names in pm's but won't want their first name being used on the boards so thats why yours got edited i guess

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't particularly like the whole "I wish you were dead" thing myself. But is that a threat? Most of the ones that I see left alone are oblique in some way.

I don't think you were being picked on, it was just something that someone noticed. I think that intrigued has a lot of friends on Lit who worry about her. Not just her emotional health, but her safety.

 

[Problem Child]

PC....you are absolutely correct, I brought it all on myself, and have said so repeatedly. I learned hard lessons that will stick with my always, they cannot be undone.
This had nothing to do with trolling. This has to to with personas on message boards, and the appeal and impact of message boards.

I know, but that seemed to be the question glam was directing to me, so I answered it.

 

[intrigued]

Oh is that really so ?

Last time i reported a post from Hanns violating guidline #5 nothing happened

You probably don't need this reminder:
5. Do not threaten other users.


KM, I'm not quite sure what to think about it


but i find dear_______ (fill in the name the specific user gave away himself in hundreds of posts)

in no way more hurtful than

I'll kill your mother, _________, you cuntless bitch (fill in the users handle)

Sorry, KM .... no pun intent, I'm just curious.



And my cordial apologies to Intrigued,
I never ever wanted to hurt her by typing her name

No dear...no harm done.

 

[curious2c]

Well, when I am online I am who I am. I can't, nor do I want to change what or who I am for any reason. I post what I feel like posting, and only leave out certain...very personal information like name, address, phone number, and direct things. If...during the course of im'ing someone I feel comfortable with them, I will begin to reveal more about me that I haven't in a post or in my descriptive area online.

Trust is something that must be earned any where you go. Online it is even harder to earn trust, simply because of the ease of use and the proximity that it brings. Online everyone can be as close or as far as you let them be. What you choose to tell them, or how much you tell someone is your choice. Sometimes people make poor choices and sometimes people (sharks more likely) wait for those to tell too much in order to hurt or have their 'fun'. Yes there are some very sick individuals out there, but htere are also some very nice, sweet, and level-headed people out there too. I firmly believe that the good outweighs the bad, but in other areas, 'Trust but verify' falls into play.

The internet, and the communities that come with it bring a sense of freedom for people that some can't even gain in real life. One feels that since there is no real 'face to face' they can be a bit braver with their true feelings. It gives a sort of push that lets someone be themselves, and more open than probably they would be in normal day to day life. It gives a...window to their soul...and lets them express themselves more freely.

For some others it brings them the 'out' to be very harsh and...well...mean. That same facelessness has the dark side that shows up time to time.


I live my life like I do. Online or in real life. The biggest difference is that online I can better express myself, what is in my soul, in my mind, and in my heart. In peson, well everybody knows that face to face can be very difficult, and it is harder to be as open for fear of ridicule, in your face, so to speak. Online one can blow off the ridicule if they so choose, it still may hurt, but it is easier to drop it if one tries.

This is probably way off the question at hand and I apologize Intrigued if I have raved here off subject.

 

[MissTaken]

With regard to the persona issue

You may see that there is a certain humaness behind each poster, but there are posters who use lit as a gameboard.

They don't care what you look like, how your day went or whether or not they hurt your feelings.

For some, we posters are pauns to play with.

I am not speaking only of trolls, I am speaking of anyone who posts something for effect and reaction.

I do it, from time to time.

There are also those who aren't here for the "Community" aspect of the board. Those contribute what they like and leave. It may be wonderful stuff, but they aren't going to be your real time or life long friend.

The other faction who don't recognize the persona behind the handle to some degree are those who are using lit as a fodder for a sociology paper, a thesis or article.

We are their pauns as well.

People come to lit for many reasons and sometimes those reasons have nothing to do with the PEOPLE who post here as much as how these people can be manipulated.

AS I said, it isn't all bad or always bad, but it is what it is.

 

[Problem Child]

Re: With regard to the persona issue

You may see that there is a certain humaness behind each poster, but there are posters who use lit as a gameboard.

They don't care what you look like, how your day went or whether or not they hurt your feelings.

For some, we posters are pauns to play with.

I am not speaking only of trolls, I am speaking of anyone who posts something for effect and reaction.

I do it, from time to time.

There are also those who aren't here for the "Community" aspect of the board. Those contribute what they like and leave. It may be wonderful stuff, but they aren't going to be your real time or life long friend.

The other faction who don't recognize the persona behind the handle to some degree are those who are using lit as a fodder for a sociology paper, a thesis or article.

We are their pauns as well.

People come to lit for many reasons and sometimes those reasons have nothing to do with the PEOPLE who post here as much as how these people can be manipulated.

AS I said, it isn't all bad or always bad, but it is what it is.

That was pretty well said.

spelling buddy sez:

pawns

 

[MunchinMark]

I have no comment about PC's dick

It may be the net. But everything on here is put on here by real people. OK, sometimes they are pretending to be something else or are just lying. But as with real life people pretending to be someone else are fairly one dimensional. So you'll find that the people who will reply to this kind of thing are going to say "I'm really like this", or be funny and say "No, I'm really Yayati".

There's a bit of a barrier imposed by the fact that the people here are represented to you as a line of text on your computer screen. You can go ahead and blurt out things like "I'm horny and I want it in the ass" here because (1) you can't see our faces and (2) the original draw for all of us was sex. The people who came to Lit in the first place are unlikely to be upset by your announcement that you love a good rimjob.

Yes, I am pretty much like this in person. Except I don't get to say so many words at once because someone would have said "what?" by the end of line 2.

 

[Rex1960]

often people will tell you their first names in pm's but won't want their first name being used on the boards so thats why yours got edited i guess

Just click the links and you see why I am curious about the removal.

Intrigue's problem is, she gave away too much info all by herself in hundreds of posts, like PC already mentioned before (no pun intent, MyLady ) and some weirdos and sickos turned it into something towards her on purpose.
If she had given it away in PMs or emails only and now some stalker just uses it to hurt her in public, I would have seen it different.

I really don't know what really happened to Intrigued, but i think it must have been something really serious, otherwise I don't understand all this recent trouble.

 

[Olivianna]

I really don't know what really happened to Intrigued, but i think it must have been something really serious, otherwise I don't understand all this recent trouble.

Well, it seems (from an outside perspective) she's been harassed by one or more people for the last several months on Lit, at least. Good enough reason to keep personal info. hush hush.

Anyway, I would argue we all use personae all of the time - on Lit, in "RL," with ourselves. The idea that there is a real, true self beneath our many layers is a modern fabrication. We are multiple, indeterminate, and performative.