Thin-skinned writers

[Stella_Omega]

Hey, I was having a good time ...

Until you went into uglyland and got called on it.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

BFW:
You can't possibly wonder why you are among the least like people here. Waaay too far into pukesville.

Wait...(sniff, sniff)...what did you write? I have to read it again. The tears in my eyes got in the way.

Seriously? I'm among the least liked people here? How do you know this? Is it something that I wrote?

Oh, my God, I thought this whole thing was an act, like an initiation or something and I've been waiting for the time when someone will jump out of a cake and invite me to join in their fun.

I had no idea that I am among the least liked people here. Wow, imagine not being liked in cyber space. I'm crushed. I mean, I really thought that I had real friends here and a real relationship, one that was better than my blowup doll.

Now, that I know that I'm one of the least liked people here...I'm okay with it.

I guess you could say that I have a thick skin. I mean for me to still be here, ignoring most of the bashing comments and 1 bombs that I receive and that none of my stories deserve, I should be given an award.

This isn't real. This is cyber space. Most of you people wouldn't dare write what you write about me if you met me in person. Only, I'm the same way here as I am in person. I am who I am and I'm proud to be me. Gees, I feel a song coming on.

"I'm proud to be me! I'm proud to be me!"

Anyway, you get the idea. So the fact that so many emotional disturbed people who lurk on these pages don't like me should bother me...why?

 

[freshface]

This is not the first time that my Indian friend has grabbed her tomahawk and mounted her pony and ridden in my direction of something that I innocently wrote. I kind of suspect now, since her feelings are easily hurt, that she does this purposely, so that someone like you can jump in and weigh in their opinion against me.

None of what I wrote was mean. I thought most of it was funny. Moreover, nothing that I write is what you wouldn't hear at a comedy club. In that regard freshface, I suggest you get off your high horse and not only develop a sense of humor but also develop a thick skin, as this thread is all about.

I never said Cloudy was innocent in this and I wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't become so vitriolic. But no, the personal comments you made about Cloudy aren't funny.

Regardless if I write something funny, something inappropriate, something about the homeless shelter that I go to every Sunday or something about the Children's Hospital in Boston...whatever. Someone will find fault with what I write. It does not matter. I swear you people look for an excuse just to play with me, which is fine. I'm a very big guy with a great sense of humor. Only, whatever happens here, directly has an affect on my stories. Suddenly, my scores go down. So don't tell me about hurt feelings on a thin skin thread.

Please don't lump me with "you people." I'm not "you people." I'm just me expressing my opinion. As I said before, your posts are often clever and funny. You did great things for the Scouries thread when you stepped in as threadmaster. Personally, I'd like to see that side of you more often.

There is no room for hurt feelings in a thread that is called...hello?...thick skin. Don't you see the irony of your post?

But see, this is where I disagree with you. The thread is about having thin skin as a writer. You made your attack personal. We all have areas where we are especially sensitive. I have an autistic brother, and never see the humor in jokes made about him. I've lived with them all my life-I've heard them all and they're not funny. I imagine it's the same for Cloudy and her culture.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

Until you went into uglyland and got called on it.

Oh, please, Cloudy's skies turned dark and then she rained on my parade.

Gees, I like that. I feel a story coming on.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wait...(sniff, sniff)...what did you write? I have to read it again. The tears in my eyes got in the way.

Seriously? I'm among the least liked people here? How do you know this? Is it something that I wrote?

you're the one who complains about that. in one out of every four posts.

This isn't real. This is cyber space. Most of you people wouldn't dare write what you write about me if you met me in person...

You act like an asshole in cyberspace-- you get a cyberspace reputation for being an asshole. You act like a total fucktard in cyberspace, people in cyberspace will describe you as a total fucktard. Wherever you go, there you are, cyberspace included.

So the fact that so many emotional disturbed people who lurk on these pages don't like me should bother me...why?

You are defending yourself here, and claiming that people who don't like you are emotionally ill. So that means that it matters to you, to some extent. Why are you here?

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

I never said Cloudy was innocent in this and I wouldn't have said anything if you hadn't become so vitriolic. But no, the personal comments you made about Cloudy aren't funny.



Please don't lump me with "you people." I'm not "you people." I'm just me expressing my opinion. As I said before, your posts are often clever and funny. You did great things for the Scouries thread when you stepped in as threadmaster. Personally, I'd like to see that side of you more often.



But see, this is where I disagree with you. The thread is about having thin skin as a writer. You made your attack personal. We all have areas where we are especially sensitive. I have an autistic brother, and never see the humor in jokes made about him. I've lived with them all my life-I've heard them all and they're not funny. I imagine it's the same for Cloudy and her culture.

When they bring in the autistic brother into the argument about a discontented Indian, what can I possibly say. I give up.

Yes, I'm a terrible person. I deserve everyone putting me on ignore. I deserve all the one bombs I get and all the nasty comments that I receive to my stories. There's nothing funny about making a personal attack, only when it wasn't meant as a personal attack. She just has a way of taking it that way. By the way, we don't even know if Cloudy is female or a real Indian.

This is cyber space. Nothing is real. For all that I know, your face may not be so fresh. You may be an 80-year-old woman or an 80-year-old man. You may be an Indian. I may be an Indian.

This is ridiculous. Can't you see that?

What time is it? Is the Donna Reed Show on? I don't want to miss that. Wait. What year is this?

Wait. What time is it in Australia? I'm going to leave now before I hear from that part of the world. I'd rather deal with a make believe Indian than a real live fat, jumping Kangaroo.

 

[sr71plt]

yep, I sure did! They were so well wrapped in verbiage, I think. Indeed.

You may be in luck. Chances are good there's a remedial reading class down the hall from the creative writing class at that thar community college.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Freddie, it's not ridiculous, and there are real people in front of other computers.

This is not a forum that lets people hide their real personalities for very long-- it's really difficult to roleplay for three or four years without slipping up. You hang out here long enough and you'll see that.

I am a real person, right now, saying that you have said ugly and hurtful things to another real person, and you've debased yourself by exhibiting such callousness from the safety of your keyboard. Cloudy is a real person. Freshface's autistic brother really exists. cyberspace is not "Just cyberspace."

 

[sr71plt]

I will try other cat's, the latest is Humor & Satire. Working on a story for Erotic Couplings or???

About a Bi psycologist and a chauffer. I'm having trouble finding an editor.

<sigh>

If it's just comments you want, you could try Loving Wives. If it's comments you can stomach that you want, I found Nonerotic to be a good place. But if you really want help on writing technique, the story board two flights up is probably the best place to ask for it.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

you're the one who complains about that. in one out of every four posts.You act like an asshole in cyberspace-- you get a cyberspace reputation for being an asshole. You act like a total fucktard in cyberspace, people in cyberspace will describe you as a total fucktard. Wherever you go, there you are, cyberspace included.You are defending yourself here, and claiming that people who don't like you are emotionally ill. So that means that it matters to you, to some extent. Why are you here?

I'm only here when I tire from writing one of my stories. This is my diversion and not my main entertainment, as it is for so many people who write and read here 24/7. I don't have 87,000 posts.

Those of you who don't like me will find a reason not to like me. That's your problem not mine. There's nothing that I can do about that nor to I care. Those of you who like me are the bright ones. They can see what I do when I do it.

I have my support team here. I'm not alone. I'm only here to post what I write. Even the Survivor Contest is a diversion for me.

Meanwhile, there are those that are having fun with my new stories by voting them down. That's why I write that there are so many emotionallly disturbed people here because a normal person wouldn't do that.

 

[freshface]

When they bring in the autistic brother into the argument about a discontented Indian, what can I possibly say. I give up.

Yes, I'm a terrible person. I deserve everyone putting me on ignore. I deserve all the one bombs I get and all the nasty comments that I receive to my stories. There's nothing funny about making a personal attack, only when it wasn't meant as a personal attack. She just has a way of taking it that way. By the way, we don't even know if Cloudy is female or a real Indian.

This is cyber space. Nothing is real. For all that I know, your face may not be so fresh. You may be an 80-year-old woman or an 80-year-old man. You may be an Indian. I may be an Indian.

This is ridiculous. Can't you see that?

What time is it? Is the Donna Reed Show on? I don't want to miss that. Wait. What year is this?

Wait. What time is it in Australia? I'm going to leave now before I hear from that part of the world. I'd rather deal with a make believe Indian than a real live fat, jumping Kangaroo.

Please stop putting words in my mouth. I never said you were a terrible person. No one deserves having their stories one bombed and no one deserves nasty comments on stories because of hurt feelings here. No argument from me that our stories should be left alone. And did you see me write in both of my responses to you that you can be both clever and funny in your posts?

I don't deny that Cloudy occasionally has thin skin, especially in areas where she has a lot of history. A lifetime of cruel remarks can have that affect on a person. We all have areas like that. Look at how you get when people dis your writing.

But as Stella said, we are real people here, with real pasts and real baggage. If you can't see how hateful you were, then I don't know what else I can say.

It's too much trouble for me to try to decide who is real and who isn't. Everyone here is who they say they are and does what they say they do unless they give clear proof otherwise. I'd be more cautious if I were meeting any of you. Since I'm not, I base my judgments on what people write and go on with my life.

 

[CWatson]

So, to get the thread BACK ON TOPIC.

I agree that, to a certain extent, it's presumptuous for me (and/or any other writer here) to treat a fellow author as if they are actually devoted to their craft. Some people aren't here for that. Some of them just want the pat on the back, or the thrill of having posted something naughty on the Internet, or whatever. They don't want to be told they can improve, they only want to be told they're good already. I completely understand that; when I first started posting here, I too was told that I was good already, and actually it was one of the best things anybody ever told me. It was my first step on the road to actually having, you know, self-esteem, something I hadn't had a shred of for the preceeding 19 years. I can't complain.

People use this site for different purposes. Yes, it's presumptuous for me to assume that others are using it the same way I am.

I do it anyway.

I don't have a lot of respect for overconfidence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who buy into our culture of entitlement, who want rewards they haven't earned. I don't have a lot of respect for people who believe they ought to be celebrated even if they lack excellence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who stick their heads in the sand and ignore the truth.

And when I see such a person, I tell them so.

I guess that makes me a curmudgeon. Oh, well.

 

[sr71plt]

So, to get the thread BACK ON TOPIC.

I agree that, to a certain extent, it's presumptuous for me (and/or any other writer here) to treat a fellow author as if they are actually devoted to their craft. Some people aren't here for that. Some of them just want the pat on the back, or the thrill of having posted something naughty on the Internet, or whatever. They don't want to be told they can improve, they only want to be told they're good already. I completely understand that; when I first started posting here, I too was told that I was good already, and actually it was one of the best things anybody ever told me. It was my first step on the road to actually having, you know, self-esteem, something I hadn't had a shred of for the preceeding 19 years. I can't complain.

People use this site for different purposes. Yes, it's presumptuous for me to assume that others are using it the same way I am.

I do it anyway.

I don't have a lot of respect for overconfidence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who buy into our culture of entitlement, who want rewards they haven't earned. I don't have a lot of respect for people who believe they ought to be celebrated even if they lack excellence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who stick their heads in the sand and ignore the truth.

And when I see such a person, I tell them so.

I guess that makes me a curmudgeon. Oh, well.

And my basic point is that if they haven't asked for it, why is it your business to give it to them? Just move on to the next story. There's no requirement to give any comment. You can even legitimately vote it low. What is it in your makeup and needs that determines they just have to be given your advice?

This isn't really a directed comment at the original posting, because that one notes that comment was solicited.

 

[Stella_Omega]

So, to get the thread BACK ON TOPIC.

I agree that, to a certain extent, it's presumptuous for me (and/or any other writer here) to treat a fellow author as if they are actually devoted to their craft. Some people aren't here for that. Some of them just want the pat on the back, or the thrill of having posted something naughty on the Internet, or whatever. They don't want to be told they can improve, they only want to be told they're good already. I completely understand that; when I first started posting here, I too was told that I was good already, and actually it was one of the best things anybody ever told me. It was my first step on the road to actually having, you know, self-esteem, something I hadn't had a shred of for the preceeding 19 years. I can't complain.

People use this site for different purposes. Yes, it's presumptuous for me to assume that others are using it the same way I am.

I do it anyway.

I don't have a lot of respect for overconfidence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who buy into our culture of entitlement, who want rewards they haven't earned. I don't have a lot of respect for people who believe they ought to be celebrated even if they lack excellence. I don't have a lot of respect for people who stick their heads in the sand and ignore the truth.

And when I see such a person, I tell them so.

I guess that makes me a curmudgeon. Oh, well.

nice tits, too!

 

[hmmnmm]

Hopefully none of us will ever come to the point that we don't feel we need to learn anything new, or another approach. To anything. And it's easy to get comfortable. In one's rhythm. In one's voice. Habits. The moment we allow ourselves to cease the journey and assume there is no more to go, then... you know? So anyone and everyone can be potentially open. Everyone has a blind spot. It's just a matter of who you listen to. Are they just flapping their lips. Are they just looking for someone to make themselves look bigger than or better than? Are they just having a bad day? Or are they someone you kind of know and respect and someone you can know is not dissing you to hurt you but to offer you a suggestion and maybe they just have a rough voice or way of doing it, but they really have some good stuff to consider?

If the voice is particularly harsh, me being a somewhat sensitive sort, first reaction is a silent, 'fuck you' because I don't like to be told what to do, especially if its someone I don't know and who doesn't know me, doesn't know the motivation behind the reasons what was written was written as it was; in fact, I'll sometimes exercise rebellion and champion the opposite qualities of what I was criticized for.

But then, I'll settle down and try to step out of it, set aside the emotions. Try to see that really no matter how a criticism might sting, at the bottom, it's really another avenue that someone opened; another way. I can choose to check it out or ignore. I'm all for variety. The more options the better. Widest latitudes possible and all points and specks between.

And sometimes, really, a little criticism is just what some of us need. Spark things up. Complacency can get cozy. And a little is okay. But... even if you're inspired to prove someone wrong. At least that's a motivator. That's what keeps the Stuff alive.

But there are a few, a special few, who, if they handed me back my manuscript full of marks and rips and problems and mistakes on every other sentence, I would be quick to bend a knee in gratitude. And I'd hope to make them proud, return their favor with something worthy.

Or I might try to explain why I wrote what I wrote the way I wrote it. Maybe what they perceive as a mistake was intentional. And maybe I'd be wise to take into consideration what they advised.

 

[sr71plt]

I know this is beating head against wall.

But there are two separate topics/types of writers twirling through this thread:

1. writers who are concentrating on the writing and interested in developing their abilities.

2. guys and gals wanting to share smut.

It's great to be the first and Web site provides forum areas to help the first group; the Web site is set up to welcome the second as well, though.

There's no reason why those seeking the first should feel like the second have to be like them. And there's no reason for the second group to have to suffer demands or presumptions that they have to be more than the second group on a Web site that welcomes the second group.

 

[xssve]

Another fracas? You people.

Anyway, my advice is, if you want constructive criticism from other writers, don't try to get it from you readers here, go to a writers site, or the editors forum here - when it comes to readers, everybody's a critic, and no, they aren't always right, and even there you stand a good chance of more getting lousy critique than not, but at least they take their work seriously.

I've dealt mainly with critics in art forums, and yes, if you argue with a critic, they'll accuse you of being thin skinned and start some shit, it's just too easy.

Thing is, there is an art to criticism, it's just like anything else, and like everything else, there are damned few good ones who don't confuse the subjective with the objective, have an agenda, trying to psych the competition, etc., etc.

Take it all with a grain of salt, and if you can take something away from a critique, great - otherwise, don't worry about it.

On the other side, if you give good critique, and it's unappreciated, call it practice, and maintain your objectivity, sometime people just need some validation.

I try to keep it light, use the sandwich technique, i.e., say something good, some constructive criticism, then say something nice again so they don't end up on the defensive - it works most of the time.

Thing is, if you can't find anything you like about it at all, you probably shouldn't be criticizing it at all, unless you just like being mean.

 

[hmmnmm]

Say I was wanting to become a better guitar player. I'm sitting there banging a bunch of noise, getting frustrated. Somebody, a virtuoso guitarist, comes along. Tells me how much my playing sucks, laughs and walks away.
Then along comes another, equally virtuostic and says, "hey if you adjusted your wrist action, sorta like so, you might find more power in those notes...." I'll be like, 'wow! thanks! Ah! You're right!" And then, I have both. My old way, and a new way.
In an ideal world. Ahhh.

 

[xssve]

Keerist People!

No wonder nobody comments on your shit. You go ballistic when discussing how thin-skined you are.

Lighten up and smoke a dobie why don't you?

What's a dobie? Isn't that like a dog turd? Do you mean Doobie?

That was lesson 1 in: How not to Critique.

This is the lesson that BFW is learning after his critique of JBJ, which, a.) ended up offending someone he didn't mean to offend because he was trying to be glib and sarcastic, and b.) didn't offend the person he was trying to offend at all because there is something deeply and disturbingly wrong with that person, which this persons father knew, but eventually lied to him about so he (the father) could get into heaven.

So, don't try to be glib - it leads to misunderstandings. Sarcasm is OK if your critique is being published, hey, you got an audience to entertain too, right?

Otherwise, no. First take the time to determine if the person you are addressing has a sense of humor, and if so, that they get your sense of humor - usually, they don't.

 

[xssve]

Oh, sorry to make an example of you JackLuis, you were just handy.

I think it's spelled doobie though.

 

[Safe_Bet]

Oh, sorry to make an example of you JackLuis, you were just handy.

I think it's spelled doobie though.

Depends on how many you have had...

 

[xssve]

Depends on how many you have had...

True.

 

[JackLuis]

Oh, sorry to make an example of you JackLuis, you were just handy.

I think it's spelled doobie though.

-----------------------
Oh yeah man doobie.
that reminds me......
<sound of sucking>

Ahhhh!

Carry on children, carry on.

 

[Stella_Omega]

-----------------------
Oh yeah man doobie.
that reminds me......
<sound of sucking>

Ahhhh!

Carry on children, carry on.

Bogart.

 

[cloudy]

Bogart.

puff, puff, give!