Thin-skinned writers

[sr71plt]

*sigh* Much of what I read here is the projection of what individual writers say they came to Lit. for as what the purposes of the Web site are--and that's how we start down the path of yammering over critiques left on stories in public comments. The Web site does not portray itself as a site to post stories for criticism. It's for posting stories to be shared and enjoyed by readers of like interests with writers.

If you seek critical comments on your stories to help you become a better writer, that's wonderful--but you can come to the forum and ask for that help.

When you take it upon yourself to critique a story directly where the story is posted--and especially if you do so uninvited--you are taking liberties that quite likely--and quite reasonably--might not be welcomed. And you have made the transaction about you (and how savyy you perceive yourself to be), not about the story or the writer of the story. This is no less true in sending an unsolicited out-of-the-blue e-mail or PM to the author of the story.

Writers of stories here are justified in submitting stories that do more than turn themselves on--and seek readers expecting no more than that either--because the Web site doesn't go beyond this in defining the purpose of the story file. And if they react badly to unsolicited writing "help," they are justified in this too.

All of this "better writing" and "development as a writer" stuff is a projection of other users of the Web site. It's not there in the stated purpose of the Web site story file.

 

[Stella_Omega]

...
Yeah, look for Palin to be writing her life fuckin' story soon. Gees, I just threw up a little in my mouth.
...

i was distracted by this comment!

I was thinking that if McCain writes the story of this race, I'd buy that. I really want to know hat was going on in his mind. Palin-- Not.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ROB

Maybe they didnt lie. You shoulda told them you wanted some phony gold stars.

I got the same treatment growing up. But the last words my old man said to me before he died was, "I was wrong about you." He wasnt wrong, I simply worked at making me better.

 

[sr71plt]

i was distracted by this comment!

I was thinking that if McCain writes the story of this race, I'd buy that. I really want to know hat was going on in his mind. Palin-- Not.

I can tell you from the perspective of publishers that the Palin book would outsell the combined total of any of the other candidates in this campaign (excepting Hillary's, perhaps, if we include primary candidates). And thus you'd be in a minority in this view.

This might also be a good place to address this false issue Boxlicker raised on another thread on the relative worth of the four people running at the national level. With the exception of McCain, who gets his wealth from his wife, the "wealth" of these folks is grounded in their book deals--and thus, in keeping with the above observation--Palin is undoubtedly going to sprint ahead of the pack in worth.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I can tell you from the perspective of publishers that the Palin book would outsell the combined total of any of the other candidates in this campaign (excepting Hillary's, perhaps, if we include primary candidates). And thus you'd be in a minority in this view.

Hell, I'm used to being a minority. I'm a pretty good bellwether for what the general public doesn't want. *shrug*

This might also be a good place to address this false issue Boxlicker raised on another thread on the relative worth of the four people running at the national level. With the exception of McCain, who gets his wealth from his wife, the "wealth" of these folks is grounded in their book deals--and thus, in keeping with the above observation--Palin is undoubtedly going to sprint ahead of the pack in worth.

That's the American Dream, all right!

back to thinskinned writers... back when i first started writing here, i got a private message from a guy who suggested that I get some help with my grammar, and clean up my garbled tenses and my story would be much better. He presented this advice to me explaining that he was the top author in the celeb cat, so he knew what he was talking about.

I fired off a return saying the story was garbled on purpose thank you very much. And it was, too-- but maybe two years later, I reread it and was horrified at how badly my on-purpose experiment turned out, and I re-wrote it. I also sent an email to the guy saying that his advice took two years to soak in... Dunno if it reached him though.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

i was distracted by this comment!

I was thinking that if McCain writes the story of this race, I'd buy that. I really want to know hat was going on in his mind. Palin-- Not.

People would SO buy it. Sad, but true.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

i was distracted by this comment!

I was thinking that if McCain writes the story of this race, I'd buy that. I really want to know hat was going on in his mind. Palin-- Not.

I think McCain would have been a better President than GW. Only, his time has come...and gone.

When I think of Palin I think of the country of Africa (lol)...

Palin would have been entertainment, much like Dan Quayle was when the other GW was in office. Only, we don't need another one. One is enough.

There's nothing that I want to read that McCain has to write. He's out of touch. His party is out of touch. They've ruined this country.

Now, fucking finally, if we can have a black President, maybe we can have gay marriages. What the fuck happened with that? First it's a law and now it's not. Moreover, it's time that Oprah and Gayle King stepped out of the closet. We are not all morons who believe that she and Stedman have any kind of relationship other than a gentleman's agreement where she pays him an exorbident amount of money to pretend.

Hopefully, Obama can give us all, even those gay and lesbian Americans equal rights.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

*sigh* Much of what I read here is the projection of what individual writers say they came to Lit. for as what the purposes of the Web site are--and that's how we start down the path of yammering over critiques left on stories in public comments. The Web site does not portray itself as a site to post stories for criticism. It's for posting stories to be shared and enjoyed by readers of like interests with writers.

If you seek critical comments on your stories to help you become a better writer, that's wonderful--but you can come to the forum and ask for that help.

When you take it upon yourself to critique a story directly where the story is posted--and especially if you do so uninvited--you are taking liberties that quite likely--and quite reasonably--might not be welcomed. And you have made the transaction about you (and how savyy you perceive yourself to be), not about the story or the writer of the story. This is no less true in sending an unsolicited out-of-the-blue e-mail or PM to the author of the story.

Writers of stories here are justified in submitting stories that do more than turn themselves on--and seek readers expecting no more than that either--because the Web site doesn't go beyond this in defining the purpose of the story file. And if they react badly to unsolicited writing "help," they are justified in this too.

All of this "better writing" and "development as a writer" stuff is a projection of other users of the Web site. It's not there in the stated purpose of the Web site story file.

Well, no, you're wrong.

The site encourages stories of all types. As well as happily hosting 'turn myself on' stories, the 'writers' resources' section is a clear attempt by the site to help authors develop their skills. More than most story sites, there are many forums here dedicated to development of writing skills so any member is quite justified in talking of 'better writing' and skill development as that is one facet of what the site aspires to.

PCs are not supposed to be critiques and are not mandatory for the writer to allow. As I remember when Manu launched the facility, it was to provide a more immediate and open way of saying 'I liked/didn't like' the story than a feedback mail. The author is always required to act as moderator of the comments and must delete messages that contravene the site's rules.

I think it is a shame that PCs have fallen a bit into disrepute. Just as welcome as a neatly turned phrase or two of praise should be a succinct comment on why the story didn't work (punctuation, spelling, plot etc). The long rants should be eliminated - my personal choice would be to limit PCs to 100 words. If you want to say more, send feedback or a PM

 

[sr71plt]

Hell, I'm used to being a minority. I'm a pretty good bellwether for what back to thinskinned writers... back when i first started writing here, i got a private message from a guy who suggested that I get some help with my grammar, and clean up my garbled tenses and my story would be much better. He presented this advice to me explaining that he was the top author in the celeb cat, so he knew what he was talking about.

I fired off a return saying the story was garbled on purpose thank you very much. And it was, too-- but maybe two years later, I reread it and was horrified at how badly my on-purpose experiment turned out, and I re-wrote it. I also sent an email to the guy saying that his advice took two years to soak in... Dunno if it reached him though.

Still, this points to another aspect of the issue. Much of the time volunteered critique is coming from someone with just a bit of knowledge and understanding going for them--after having written a story or two and gotten a few pats on the back from others like them--and deciding that they had found the one and only Holy Grail of writing technique and were now empowered (nay, chosen and destined) to indoctrinate anyone else posting a story here in the secret keys they had discovered.

 

[JackLuis]

How can you be thin-skined if no one comments?

The problem I have is after posting 20 or so chapters/stories I've had only 5-6 comments. My "Novel" has about 2000 average views per chapter with 20-24 votes each, yet no one comments.

I figure I'll keep posting and writing the "Novel" fro the 20 or so that vote and the 1000 or so that read the story, but I'd rather get comments, by Mail or on the PC's.

BTW: I just put up and edit of my non-novel story as a salute to VE's and am wondering how other Authors evaluate it.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=390574

 

[sr71plt]

Well, no, you're wrong.

The site encourages stories of all types. As well as happily hosting 'turn myself on' stories, the 'writers' resources' section is a clear attempt by the site to help authors develop their skills. More than most story sites, there are many forums here dedicated to development of writing skills so any member is quite justified in talking of 'better writing' and skill development as that is one facet of what the site aspires to.

PCs are not supposed to be critiques and are not mandatory for the writer to allow. As I remember when Manu launched the facility, it was to provide a more immediate and open way of saying 'I liked/didn't like' the story than a feedback mail. The author is always required to act as moderator of the comments and must delete messages that contravene the site's rules.

I think it is a shame that PCs have fallen a bit into disrepute. Just as welcome as a neatly turned phrase or two of praise should be a succinct comment on why the story didn't work (punctuation, spelling, plot etc). The long rants should be eliminated - my personal choice would be to limit PCs to 100 words. If you want to say more, send feedback or a PM

I fully understand that you feel it is your duty and destiny to tell everyone else here to write like you do--that the Web site was created just for you to do that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

STELLA

You and I are the fork in the road. The rest are the herd that walks into the wall or pond or woods the fork goes around. Unfortunately, your path leads to Hell.

 

[sr71plt]

The problem I have is after posting 20 or so chapters/stories I've had only 5-6 comments. My "Novel" has about 2000 average views per chapter with 20-24 votes each, yet no one comments.

I figure I'll keep posting and writing the "Novel" fro the 20 or so that vote and the 1000 or so that read the story, but I'd rather get comments, by Mail or on the PC's.

BTW: I just put up and edit of my non-novel story as a salute to VE's and am wondering how other Authors evaluate like it.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=390574

There also is no requirement for a reader to comment (or vote) on a story. The writers of the stories can anguish over this as they like (and many certainly do)--there's ever the struggle for validation--but that still doesn't obligate the reader to respond in any form to the story file here. I look to the "reads" number--with the reads here being so much higher than the "buys" of my mainstream books that this is enough to give him that warm feeling of response we all look for. And when I do get an e-mailed comment, what I note up front in response is that they have read the story and have taken the time and effort to respond to it. I never take that for granted or as something they were either obligated or even expected to do.

If this is really important to you, a little bit of research will show that comment is much heavier in some categories (novels not being one of them) than in others--and you can always write to the categories that give you the return you crave.

 

[sr71plt]

The site encourages stories of all types. As well as happily hosting 'turn myself on' stories, the 'writers' resources' section is a clear attempt by the site to help authors develop their skills. More than most story sites, there are many forums here dedicated to development of writing skills so any member is quite justified in talking of 'better writing' and skill development as that is one facet of what the site aspires to.

"Welcome to Literotica, your FREE source for the hottest in erotic fiction and fantasy. Literotica features 100% original sex stories from a variety of authors. Literotica accepts quality erotic story submissions from amateur authors and holds story contests for contributors. We offer a huge selection of adult fantasies to choose from, and are always on the lookout for new and exciting ideas. We encourage you to contact us with any comments or suggestions on how we can make this free sex story site more pleasurable for you. Have fun and enjoy yourselves while visiting Literotica Erotic Fiction! All story characters involved in sexual situations on this adult erotic web site are over the age of consent."


This is the purpose statement for the Web site as set forth at the top of the Home Page. (If I were being critical, I'd post that the word "quality" is a neutral word and really should have some sort of qualifying adjective in front of it--"high" maybe or "acceptable/standard.")

Nope, doesn't say anything about being required to have writing development as a goal or to endure graciously unsolicited, often half-baked critical comment on writing technique. So, those feeling compelled to give others unrequested writing advice really have no justification for waxing indignant for having their hand bit when they choose to do so.

The Web site does offer areas where writing development can be pursued. Repeat, can be pursued. (Which is different from being pursued when you haven't asked for help or brought your story to these help areas.)

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

The problem I have is after posting 20 or so chapters/stories I've had only 5-6 comments. My "Novel" has about 2000 average views per chapter with 20-24 votes each, yet no one comments.

I figure I'll keep posting and writing the "Novel" fro the 20 or so that vote and the 1000 or so that read the story, but I'd rather get comments, by Mail or on the PC's.

BTW: I just put up and edit of my non-novel story as a salute to VE's and am wondering how other Authors evaluate it.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=390574

I wrote an essay, hits versus votes and public comments. Below is the link to it. I'm not good at posting links. I hope it works for you.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=310474

Anyway, if the link doesn't work, you can find the story on my page.

I had a difficult time understand how so many could read my stories and not vote. Then, one I wrote this essay, I had an overwhelming response, only they voted and commented on the essay only (lol). Go figure.

 

[JackLuis]

There also is no requirement for a reader to comment (or vote) on a story.
-
If this is really important to you, a little bit of research will show that comment is much heavier in some categories (novels not being one of them) than in others--and you can always write to the categories that give you the return you crave.

I will try other cat's, the latest is Humor & Satire. Working on a story for Erotic Couplings or???

About a Bi psycologist and a chauffer. I'm having trouble finding an editor.

<sigh>

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

STELLA

You and I are the fork in the road. The rest are the herd that walks into the wall or pond or woods the fork goes around. Unfortunately, your path leads to Hell.

What the Hell does that mean? Is this translated from another language? What are you smoking?

I think the Pawnee Indians speak in English the way that you write.

"You take heap big fork in the road and go with the rest of the herd. Only, take care not to walk into the wall and, unless you need a bath, avoid the pond, too. Stay clear of the woods. There is danger there. Fortunately, the fork continues around and luckily even though my path doesn't lead to Hell because I'm taking the high road, continue downward and don't worry about the heat as you travel lower and lower. I wouldn't bother packing a suitcase if I were you. Where you're going, you won't need a lot of clothes.

See? Isn't that better than what you wrote?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Still, this points to another aspect of the issue. Much of the time volunteered critique is coming from someone with just a bit of knowledge and understanding going for them--after having written a story or two and gotten a few pats on the back from others like them--and deciding that they had found the one and only Holy Grail of writing technique and were now empowered (nay, chosen and destined) to indoctrinate anyone else posting a story here in the secret keys they had discovered.

And how is that different from any community college Creative Writing course?

The thing that makes it better here is that users can go anywhere else they want-- if it's important to find a better source of advice, they can go looking for it. They aren't limited to the only college facility within travelling distance...

 

[fieryjen]

I wrote an essay, hits versus votes and public comments. Below is the link to it. I'm not good at posting links. I hope it works for you.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=310474

Anyway, if the link doesn't work, you can find the story on my page.

I had a difficult time understand how so many could read my stories and not vote. Then, one I wrote this essay, I had an overwhelming response, only they voted and commented on the essay only (lol). Go figure.

If you care at all, here's an easy how-to to make it look pretty:

1. Mark the link you want to link to and hit CTRL-C to copy.
2. Write out the name of the link in the reply window (the text you want to show up for people to click on).
3. Highlight it with the mouse, then click Lit's "Insert link" button at the top of your reply window. It will prompt you to enter the site you want to link to.
4. CTRL-V to paste the link into that window.
5. Once you click reply, it should show up, with the nice-looking text displayed and linked to the site you want

 

[Stella_Omega]

What the Hell does that mean? Is this translated from another language? What are you smoking?

I think the Pawnee Indians speak in English the way that you write.

"You take heap big fork in the road and go with the rest of the herd. Only, take care not to walk into the wall and, unless you need a bath, avoid the pond, too. Stay clear of the woods. There is danger there. Fortunately, the fork continues around and luckily even though my path doesn't lead to Hell because I'm taking the high road, continue downward and don't worry about the heat as you travel lower and lower. I wouldn't bother packing a suitcase if I were you. Where you're going, you won't need a lot of clothes.

See? Isn't that better than what you wrote?

Freddie love, please don't quote JBJ. No one here wants to read his sad and ugly ravings. He has no reason to be here, nothing to contribute, and his mental health issues can't be fixed by you or me.
Almost everyone has him on ignore. If he has something worthwhile to say, you can be sure someone else has already said it.

 

[BOSTONFICTIONWRITER]

If you care at all, here's an easy how-to to make it look pretty:

1. Mark the link you want to link to and hit CTRL-C to copy.
2. Write out the name of the link in the reply window (the text you want to show up for people to click on).
3. Highlight it with the mouse, then click Lit's "Insert link" button at the top of your reply window. It will prompt you to enter the site you want to link to.
4. CTRL-V to paste the link into that window.
5. Once you click reply, it should show up, with the nice-looking text displayed and linked to the site you want

Thank you so much. You are a doll for taking the time to do that for me and I appreciate it. Only, I'm a computer illiterate. I know how to type. I'm a wicked fast typist and can type over 100 wpm. I know how to do e-mail, post stories on Literotica, and use an accounting package. Everything else gives me a headache. I have to go and rest down now.

 

[sr71plt]

And how is that different from any community college Creative Writing course?

The thing that makes it better here is that users can go anywhere else they want-- if it's important to find a better source of advice, they can go looking for it. They aren't limited to the only college facility within travelling distance...

Are you joking? The community college Creative Writing Course has an organized syllabus designed to develop writing technique from the ground up based on elements being systematically examined and test out as part of a comprehensive building block approach. And the course is being taught and supervised by someone whose credentials are established (possibly not the best, nor necessarily exhibiting the talent for it that needs to be included) and vetted (to a greater or lesser extent) by the college and available to see and check out before the student signs up for the class. Add to this that the student has, in fact, explicitly signed up for the critical review.

How is that anything like anonymous, often unsolicited posting on an Internet porn site?

And how does that relate to the topic of the thread? Being upset that someone posting a story here doesn't salivate all over you in appreciation (ergo, are thin skinned) when you have posted writing critique comment to their story in a PC?

 

[bb_peaks]

I personally have loved both the good and bad of the critiques I got. I have used some to revise stories and to try and see it from a reader's point. I'm pretty thick skinned and figured if I didn't wanna hear the pooh with the pearls I shouldn't checkmark allow PC. I know for me, many times I get wrapped up in the story and I know the whole story but may forget to let the reader know it.

But that's just me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you joking? The community college Creative Writing Course has an organized syllabus designed to develop writing technique from the ground up based on elements being systematically examined and test out as part of a comprehensive building block approach. And the course being taught and supervised by someone whose credentials are established (possibly not the best, nor necessarily exhibiting the talent for it that needs to be included) and vetted (to a greater or lesser extent) by the college and available to see and check out before the student signs up for the class.

How is that anything like anonymous posting on an Internet porn site?

And how does that relate to the topic of the thread? Being upset that someone posting a story here doesn't salivate all over you in appreciation (ergo, are thin skinned) when you have posted writing critique comment to their story in a PC?

Well gawrsh I was only responding to your post, so blame yourself if I went off topic!
okay... it relates because some people... let's see... might have started at a better site and been so upset by the real(er) critique they got that they left and found Lit instead. How's that?

(You have commendably high expectations of community college admins and their hiring procedures!)

 

[sr71plt]

(You have commendably high expectations of community college admins and their hiring procedures!)

You missed my parenthetical "doesn't always happen this way" phrases on that?


Regardless, you're told up front what's involved in the community college course. There's no declaration up front here telling a writer that they have posted here because they want to develop as a writer and want the other writers here to impose their views on this on them--which I continue to view as presumptuous and as having to do more with the critiquer's plumping themselves up than with the story they are critiquing.