Seriously, be warned, its a long post but it's an issue that has gotten under my skin. I have collated 2 posts I made in another thread and one PM to a Moderator below, and I guess I would like some feedback. What do others think about this issue? And lets be clear, I am not talking about familial child abuse. I am talking about adults.
I saw the thread "Incest is Best" when I hit the "New Posts" button. I thought "What?" I mean on the main site I saw the heading for incest stories, but dismissed it. Now I realise how much material there is on this topic.
I looked incest up snd read around a bit. This link is one of the better broad summaries I dug up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest#...garding_incest Not because I didn't know what it was, but to see what the global situation was with laws and cultural taboo's etc.
As a father, with kids of both sexes, I warn you, I have a particular view, and it's not favourable toward incestuous sexual relationships - so if that's going to piss you off, by all means stop reading now. I try to be reasonable and base my opinions on facts, but this is an emotional issue as well to some people.
It looks like in a lot of places there are specific laws on it, and not just from a marriage point of view.
To me, incest between more distant relatives (cousins etc) is a different scenario to Lineal incestuous relationships and that between siblings. Childhood experimentation among siblings and cousins etc is one thing. It's not based on incestuous sexual desire according to the p-shrinks. But when it continues beyond that, it seems to indicate a failure in the development and healthy maturation of specific emotional and other factors.
Parent/child incestuous activity seems to me to be a situation where emotional maturation, bonding and development has gone awry, and seems to lead to a lifetime of partnership and other difficulties for those involved, no mater how consensual it is.
Any parent that sexually desires their own child has a real problem, and I don't care how old they are. Your duties and responsibilites as a parent include doing whatever you can to assist and encourage healthy emotional development in your children, and I seriosly doubt you will find a credible psychologist who will tell you that a child fucking their own mother or father is healthy in any sense of the word. Sexualising that relationship is a sign of deep emotional and psychological problems. The same goes for Sibling incest, but perhaps in a different way.
Aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews - getting more distant, but come on - in an emotionally well adjusted and healthy family they aren't screwing each other. And let me tell you, if my brother ever made a move on my daughter the cops' smallest concern would be prosecuting him, they'd be scraping his brains off the walls and looking for me.
Once you get out to cousins, the line gets significantly more blurred doesn't it? Step-type relationships complicate things at all levels, although it shouldn't really.
Given that in many parts of the world many of the activities being described in THE THREAD are illegal (not just the subject of specific cultural taboo's) I fail to see how it can continue to be discussed in an open forum. Surely the same rules should apply as apply to other illegal activities like sex with minors and animals?
I read some posts in that thread because I was thinking "What? Really? It's best?" and 2 issues came to mind.
I thought firstly "How do the Site Owners get around Liability issues when they host content that discusses activities, and encourages activities, that are straight out illegal and indictable offences in many US and other jurisdictions in which the content is published (ie viewable over the internet as opposed to where it is hosted on a server)." I mean, as a prosecuter in some of these jurisdictions (hypothetically), I might think about getting a court order compelling the site owner to provide details of relevant members (IP Addresses for example). It wouldn't be hard to do. Then an officer could knock on their door for a chat. You never know - some randy online chat about screwing their 18 year old daughter might be something else entirely. The daughter might actually be 14 and the person upped the age to meet publication rules. You see, cops and prosecuters pretty much, after enough years in the Yoke, assume everyone is guilty. So as a Site Owner, I would be concerned as hell about having my otherwise very legal and carefully managed site dragged into that sort of controversy. You know how the media are, always looking for an angle.
The other thing it made me think about was the psychology lectures from back at Uni about these familial bonds and how they get twisted and warped through sexualisation and other unhealthy influences, and when these things typically start in the minds of those involved. And I looked at all this glib and horny chatter and thought "Wow, these guys just don't appreciate the damage that is done psychologically and emotionally to people, including "consenting" adults." Consent needs to be informed, and that's the legal postion as well as a good general rule. Most of these incestuous relationships are instigated by the elder person, typically a parent, uncle Aunt etc. So to make that seem OK in your head, you'd need to ignore the whole issue of influence and pretend that the "consensual" nature of the relationship means BOTH parties have properly considered their motivations and the consequences - which can be horrendous in the real world.
I don't advocate the Bedroom Police. I couldn't care less if people are gay, dominant, submissive, into S&M or need to have sex with a snorkel, a powerdrill and a blow-up Kamal Doll, but I don't think this is an appropriate topic for the light hearted and pornographic treatment it is getting in that Thread. I also think the Site Owners need to re-think their policy and get some decent legal advice on how they could get dragged into a very messy situation should a prosecuter be inclined to shake the tree and see what falls out. I am not saying it is illegal to host the material, but it could be seen as a very handy conduit to people who essentially write in detail about their illegal activities.
It would be like having a Forum for thieves to share break-in stories or "animal lovers" to swap tales and the addresses of farms with poor livestock control practices. Sooner or later some enterprising officer is going to twig to the fact theat there are real people doing real and illegal things and an IP address is as easy as pie to track. Don't think you're anonymous.
BTW, I am not a prosecuter, and I'm not making threats, it's just an observation on something that would concern me if I had my neck out like the site owners seem to on this issue.
What is otherwise a pretty (for the genre) classy operation (ie the whole Literotica site, not just the forums) is seriously dragged down by material and content that depicts what is, in many places, illegal activity. I mean, put aside for a moment the essentially global cultural taboo's on incestuous sexual relationships, and forget for a moment the moral issues with, for example, ANY father that lusts after his daughter (of ANY age) etc - and you are still left with content depicting supposedly factual as well as fictitious events of an indictable nature. I mean incest even amongst adults is ILLEGAL in much of the world. Like necrophilia and beastiality. It's recognized as a sexual PERVERSION, not a FETISH.
The moderator I wrote to is under Canadian law -where Incest, which covers sex with one's parent, child, brother or sister (including half-brothers and half-sisters), grandparent or grandchild, is an indictable offence and liable to a maximum of 14 years' imprisonment. 14 YEARS. Napoleon abolished Frances incest laws 200 years ago amidst some very cloudy circumstances and lets face it, we shouldn't take too much notice of French laws that have anything to do with matters of passion. Most of America, the UK, Australia and the vast majority of Europe have laws forbidding incestuous sexual relationships. This is just society reflecting fundamental human biological, psychological and social imperatives that have been with us for millenia. Virtually all societies have some form of incest avoidance - and for good reason! It's not a religious thing.
Add to that the deliberate ambiguity over age we see in the stories of this nature (or rather the knowing avoidance of that issue with the cynical consensus that OF COURSE all of this is only relevant to people over 18) and the whole thing starts to go from off colour to downright sinister.
I just don't see how people don't get that this is wrong and on a totally different level to the other content and activities depicted on this site. But then again the human mind is an agile thing.
Lets face it, a father that wants to fuck his daughter or dreams about it, is sick. One that actually does it, at any age, is a dark and twisted creature. Same for Mothers with sons and uncles and aunts with their siblings' kids. Some things are just black and white, and this is one of them.
Seriously, to those who write on these topics - have you ever thought about doing some real research as an "author" in this field and going to speak to psychiatric professionals who specialise in this area? I asked a friend in the field about it a couple of hours ago, and what she told me was scary. It causes a lot of pain in the REAL world and the people involved are inevitably dealing with serious personality, emotional and deep psychological issues. Forums that glamourise it, and encourage it are wrong on any number of levels.
In my humble opinion, it has no place on a site purporting to be a legitimate source of erotic fiction and writing, and a credible resource for writers in that genre. Let them set up their own forum and literary site so people don't have to see threads with the title "Incest is Best" and stories with titles evocative of daddies screwing their very young daughters and sons screwing their mothers.
Just knowing it's there is irksome. At best.
I saw the thread "Incest is Best" when I hit the "New Posts" button. I thought "What?" I mean on the main site I saw the heading for incest stories, but dismissed it. Now I realise how much material there is on this topic.
I looked incest up snd read around a bit. This link is one of the better broad summaries I dug up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest#...garding_incest Not because I didn't know what it was, but to see what the global situation was with laws and cultural taboo's etc.
As a father, with kids of both sexes, I warn you, I have a particular view, and it's not favourable toward incestuous sexual relationships - so if that's going to piss you off, by all means stop reading now. I try to be reasonable and base my opinions on facts, but this is an emotional issue as well to some people.
It looks like in a lot of places there are specific laws on it, and not just from a marriage point of view.
To me, incest between more distant relatives (cousins etc) is a different scenario to Lineal incestuous relationships and that between siblings. Childhood experimentation among siblings and cousins etc is one thing. It's not based on incestuous sexual desire according to the p-shrinks. But when it continues beyond that, it seems to indicate a failure in the development and healthy maturation of specific emotional and other factors.
Parent/child incestuous activity seems to me to be a situation where emotional maturation, bonding and development has gone awry, and seems to lead to a lifetime of partnership and other difficulties for those involved, no mater how consensual it is.
Any parent that sexually desires their own child has a real problem, and I don't care how old they are. Your duties and responsibilites as a parent include doing whatever you can to assist and encourage healthy emotional development in your children, and I seriosly doubt you will find a credible psychologist who will tell you that a child fucking their own mother or father is healthy in any sense of the word. Sexualising that relationship is a sign of deep emotional and psychological problems. The same goes for Sibling incest, but perhaps in a different way.
Aunts and uncles, nieces and nephews - getting more distant, but come on - in an emotionally well adjusted and healthy family they aren't screwing each other. And let me tell you, if my brother ever made a move on my daughter the cops' smallest concern would be prosecuting him, they'd be scraping his brains off the walls and looking for me.
Once you get out to cousins, the line gets significantly more blurred doesn't it? Step-type relationships complicate things at all levels, although it shouldn't really.
Given that in many parts of the world many of the activities being described in THE THREAD are illegal (not just the subject of specific cultural taboo's) I fail to see how it can continue to be discussed in an open forum. Surely the same rules should apply as apply to other illegal activities like sex with minors and animals?
I read some posts in that thread because I was thinking "What? Really? It's best?" and 2 issues came to mind.
I thought firstly "How do the Site Owners get around Liability issues when they host content that discusses activities, and encourages activities, that are straight out illegal and indictable offences in many US and other jurisdictions in which the content is published (ie viewable over the internet as opposed to where it is hosted on a server)." I mean, as a prosecuter in some of these jurisdictions (hypothetically), I might think about getting a court order compelling the site owner to provide details of relevant members (IP Addresses for example). It wouldn't be hard to do. Then an officer could knock on their door for a chat. You never know - some randy online chat about screwing their 18 year old daughter might be something else entirely. The daughter might actually be 14 and the person upped the age to meet publication rules. You see, cops and prosecuters pretty much, after enough years in the Yoke, assume everyone is guilty. So as a Site Owner, I would be concerned as hell about having my otherwise very legal and carefully managed site dragged into that sort of controversy. You know how the media are, always looking for an angle.
The other thing it made me think about was the psychology lectures from back at Uni about these familial bonds and how they get twisted and warped through sexualisation and other unhealthy influences, and when these things typically start in the minds of those involved. And I looked at all this glib and horny chatter and thought "Wow, these guys just don't appreciate the damage that is done psychologically and emotionally to people, including "consenting" adults." Consent needs to be informed, and that's the legal postion as well as a good general rule. Most of these incestuous relationships are instigated by the elder person, typically a parent, uncle Aunt etc. So to make that seem OK in your head, you'd need to ignore the whole issue of influence and pretend that the "consensual" nature of the relationship means BOTH parties have properly considered their motivations and the consequences - which can be horrendous in the real world.
I don't advocate the Bedroom Police. I couldn't care less if people are gay, dominant, submissive, into S&M or need to have sex with a snorkel, a powerdrill and a blow-up Kamal Doll, but I don't think this is an appropriate topic for the light hearted and pornographic treatment it is getting in that Thread. I also think the Site Owners need to re-think their policy and get some decent legal advice on how they could get dragged into a very messy situation should a prosecuter be inclined to shake the tree and see what falls out. I am not saying it is illegal to host the material, but it could be seen as a very handy conduit to people who essentially write in detail about their illegal activities.
It would be like having a Forum for thieves to share break-in stories or "animal lovers" to swap tales and the addresses of farms with poor livestock control practices. Sooner or later some enterprising officer is going to twig to the fact theat there are real people doing real and illegal things and an IP address is as easy as pie to track. Don't think you're anonymous.
BTW, I am not a prosecuter, and I'm not making threats, it's just an observation on something that would concern me if I had my neck out like the site owners seem to on this issue.
What is otherwise a pretty (for the genre) classy operation (ie the whole Literotica site, not just the forums) is seriously dragged down by material and content that depicts what is, in many places, illegal activity. I mean, put aside for a moment the essentially global cultural taboo's on incestuous sexual relationships, and forget for a moment the moral issues with, for example, ANY father that lusts after his daughter (of ANY age) etc - and you are still left with content depicting supposedly factual as well as fictitious events of an indictable nature. I mean incest even amongst adults is ILLEGAL in much of the world. Like necrophilia and beastiality. It's recognized as a sexual PERVERSION, not a FETISH.
The moderator I wrote to is under Canadian law -where Incest, which covers sex with one's parent, child, brother or sister (including half-brothers and half-sisters), grandparent or grandchild, is an indictable offence and liable to a maximum of 14 years' imprisonment. 14 YEARS. Napoleon abolished Frances incest laws 200 years ago amidst some very cloudy circumstances and lets face it, we shouldn't take too much notice of French laws that have anything to do with matters of passion. Most of America, the UK, Australia and the vast majority of Europe have laws forbidding incestuous sexual relationships. This is just society reflecting fundamental human biological, psychological and social imperatives that have been with us for millenia. Virtually all societies have some form of incest avoidance - and for good reason! It's not a religious thing.
Add to that the deliberate ambiguity over age we see in the stories of this nature (or rather the knowing avoidance of that issue with the cynical consensus that OF COURSE all of this is only relevant to people over 18) and the whole thing starts to go from off colour to downright sinister.
I just don't see how people don't get that this is wrong and on a totally different level to the other content and activities depicted on this site. But then again the human mind is an agile thing.
Lets face it, a father that wants to fuck his daughter or dreams about it, is sick. One that actually does it, at any age, is a dark and twisted creature. Same for Mothers with sons and uncles and aunts with their siblings' kids. Some things are just black and white, and this is one of them.
Seriously, to those who write on these topics - have you ever thought about doing some real research as an "author" in this field and going to speak to psychiatric professionals who specialise in this area? I asked a friend in the field about it a couple of hours ago, and what she told me was scary. It causes a lot of pain in the REAL world and the people involved are inevitably dealing with serious personality, emotional and deep psychological issues. Forums that glamourise it, and encourage it are wrong on any number of levels.
In my humble opinion, it has no place on a site purporting to be a legitimate source of erotic fiction and writing, and a credible resource for writers in that genre. Let them set up their own forum and literary site so people don't have to see threads with the title "Incest is Best" and stories with titles evocative of daddies screwing their very young daughters and sons screwing their mothers.
Just knowing it's there is irksome. At best.
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