"The United States Constitution has its faults"

[Politruk]

I have sometimes seen a message-button at SF conventions: "The United States Constitution has its faults, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've got now."

Which is a lie. The Unites States Constitution is definitely worse than what we've got now. It was designed for a primitive agrarian society. Certainly the FFs did not envision a massive bureaucracy -- but no modern industrialized state can get along without one.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

Well, you can always move to another country if you don't like how things are done here.

 

[Philthy_Phil]

Well, you can always move to another country if you don't like how things are done here.

Preferably one with no working internet.

 

[Oniafox]

It certainly appears toxic from over here

 

[ll74]

I have sometimes seen a message-button at SF conventions: "The United States Constitution has its faults, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've got now."

Which is a lie. The Unites States Constitution is definitely worse than what we've got now. It was designed for a primitive agrarian society. Certainly the FFs did not envision a massive bureaucracy -- but no modern industrialized state can get along without one.

This is a stupid thread.

 

[Politruk]

Well, you can always move to another country if you don't like how things are done here.

In relevant aspects, things are done the same way everywhere in the industrialized world. Every country has a massive bureaucracy, and needs one.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

In relevant aspects, things are done the same way everywhere in the industrialized world. Every country has a massive bureaucracy, and needs one.

"Relevant aspects, done the same everywhere. Every country has a massive bureaucracy." Also, speaking in broad terms paints with a broad brush. If you have a specific axe to grind, then please grind it.

 

[LLCox]

This is a stupid thread.

"WTF are you talking about"

 

[UltraChad]

I have sometimes seen a message-button at SF conventions: "The United States Constitution has its faults, but it's a hell of a lot better than what we've got now."

Which is a lie. The Unites States Constitution is definitely worse than what we've got now. It was designed for a primitive agrarian society. Certainly the FFs did not envision a massive bureaucracy -- but no modern industrialized state can get along without one.

And there is the lie....we really don't need one. The American bureaucracy is a legion of ticks on the ass of lady liberty.

 

[ll74]

"WTF are you talking about"

You're not using it properly.

 

[LLCox]

You're not using it properly.

"this is a stupid post" ^

 

[Politruk]

And there is the lie....we really don't need one. The American bureaucracy is a legion of ticks on the ass of lady liberty.

No good will come of paring it down it like Trump promises to do. No good ever came of previous efforts of that kind.

 

[ll74]

"this is a stupid post" ^

It is. Already used properly

 

[Politruk]

And a modern industrial state also requires a lot more centralized, national government than the FFs intended. Except for Hamilton.

 

[UltraChad]

And a modern industrial state also requires a lot more centralized, national government than the FFs intended. Except for Hamilton.

No it doesn't.

 

[Politruk]

No it doesn't.

In American history, no good has ever come of decentralization or "states' rights."

 

[UltraChad]

In American history, no good has ever come of decentralization or "states' rights."

Holy goalpost move batman.....we weren't talking about either of those things.

Wrong thread bud. Of course there has just look at all the constitutional carry states.....spreading like wildfire. Hell maybe we're right and we could and should go national now...LOL

 

[Politruk]

Holy goalpost move batman.....we weren't talking about either of those things.

Wrong thread bud. Of course there has just look at all the constitutional carry states.....spreading like wildfire. Hell we could go national now...LOL

It's relevant to this thread because the FFs' original vision was federal, and therefore ill-conceived.

 

[Politruk]

America would have been better off if the Framers had gone with the Hamilton plan.

 

[UltraChad]

It's relevant to this thread because the FFs' original vision was federal, and therefore ill-conceived.

Nah, it's good for preserving liberty.

America would have been better off if the Framers had gone with the Hamilton plan.

Wouldn't have been if they had.

 

[Politruk]

Nah, it's good for preserving liberty.

Liberty is for individuals, not regional communities. States' rights preserved slavery and segregation.

 

[UltraChad]

Liberty is for individuals, not regional communities.

It's for both.

States' rights preserved slavery and segregation.

It literally didn't.

 

[Politruk]

It literally didn't.

The defenders of both slavery and segregation couched their arguments in term of states' rights.

As recently as 1964, Goldwater insisted that he was no segregationist, but doing anything about it would require unacceptable federal overreach.

 

[UltraChad]

The defenders of both slavery and segregation couched their arguments in term of states' rights.

As recently as 1964, Goldwater insisted that he was no segregationist, but doing anything about it would require unacceptable federal overreach.

And Democrats are still pushing for racial segregation!!!

What's that got to do with the fact that "states rights" literally did NOT preserve slavery or segregation??

 

[Politruk]

And Democrats are still pushing for racial segregation!!!

What's that got to do with the fact that "states rights" literally did NOT preserve slavery or segregation??

The historical record says they did.