The two books I WOULD ban...

[sch00lteacher]

PP PP PP........

*shaking head slowly, with a frown thrown in for good measure*

 

[Herbie Handcock]

My sons favourite story? How I love to read this story to him night after night till the words are ingrained into my memory. I protest and place Mars And Venus Together Forever by John Gray Phd in it's place. Because I got it for Christmas and it is boring. Want it?

Ok I have to admit I like Dr. Suess. Is this the same guy that wraote the Women Are From Venus, Men Are From Mars book. If it is I'm with you all the way.

 

[Unclebill]

Re: Why not just ban all religions?

Originally posted by Black_Bird
Holy Books are holy because we use them to inspire ourselves, not because they are the "Words of God." These books were written by men who genuinely felt the presence of the divine and sought to communcate what they felt to others... The bigots who twists the words of the prophets of any religion have all cut themselves off from the inspirational aspect of these texts and have turned to a completely literal interpetation, throwing the spiritual into the mire of man's "logic."

To say they genuinely felt the presence of the divine is the sort of irrational presumption that lends credence to the whole notion of the mysticism or superstition that is religion. They are Holy Books only because someone many years ago decreed that as fact with nothing more than a belief or intent to deceive as their motivation.

This does not validate or substantiate anything as fact; it merely perpetuates the myth.

At one point religion did serve some useful purpose. It provided some fundamental morality and it provided a view of man's existence in terms of nature as a whole.

However, in a day when science has come into it's own and it is clear that reason is the tool by which man survives and advances, to hold to irrational beliefs despite the vast fountain of knowledge available is at best a severe weakness of mankind as a species.

Originally posted by Black_Bird
If you want to combat the fundementalist bullshit, then try showing people *this* truth and lead them towards understanding God (The Goddess/The Gods/The Tao/The Divine/Whatever) as being more then the book. What you are suggesting just puts you in the same handbasket with them, in my opinion.

[Edit: Sorry - touchy subject for me...]

The problem is that the people committed to this fundamentalist bullshit adhere to it out of faith. Reason is banished so you cannot show them any truth beyond that derived from their faith. To cite a passage from an Ayn Rand novel, "Faith, the alleged shortcut to knowledge, is in fact a short circuit destroying the mind". Accepting as fact that which is irrational and not provable is the root of much of the fundamentalist BS encountered today and throughout history.

It is this more than anything else that will likely destroy mankind; the rejection of an intellect based, rational morality and acceptance of the irrational, faith-based happenstance morality of the current gang.

 

[FlamingoBlue]

The Bible
The Koran

For obvious reasons...

Those two "good" books and the folks that attempt to coerce you to believe in them have been the source of more deaths and agony than any others that I know. Talk about perversion!!

There's a lot of good stuff in both books. If only people would practice it. (Sigh).

blue

 

[FlamingoBlue]

Sorry for the double post. The devil made me do it.

blue

 

[perks]

Re: Re: The two books I WOULD ban...

Well, old man, you took the words right out of my mouth. Those two books and the folks that want you to believe in them have been the source of more deaths and agony than any others that I know. Talk about perversion!!

blue

those two books have not been the source. Saying the books are the problem is a cop-out. It's like saying rock music is the devil and the catalyst for all the school killings. Fuck that..people make choices. People should be held accountable. If you believe that a thought process, an inspiration, a spiritual connection to God or whatever put down on paper is the reason for the choices then you're fucking mindless, just like the extremists who quote them for their excuses.

perky

 

[Texan]

Yeah.... I was just sitting here thinking of all the terrible things those books have inspired. I mean they tell people to do such horrible things; like, "love your neighbor as yourself", "love your enemies", "do good to those who hate you". Since I haven't read the Koran, I can only remember that the Bible gives such terrible instructions; such as, "Don't kill", Don't lie", "Don't cheat on your wife", "Don't steal".

I'm using simplistic sarcasm to make a simple point.

I can use a knife to stab you in the back. Or I can use the same knife to cut your bonds and set you free.

I can use my words to rip you apart. Or I can use my words to comfort your broken heart.

I can use my gun to shoot you dead. Or I can use my gun to defend your life and freedom.

It's not the tool you choose to use, but the way you choose to use it.

 

[Herbie Handcock]

It's not the tool you choose to use, but the way you choose to use it.

Damn a wise Texan. Thats so deep and simplistic I'm truly in awe. I mean I've used everything from pliers to a shovel as a hammer before. It was usually a mess when I got done beating the hell out of whatever it was but it worked and I proclaimed to myself "it is a HAMMER".

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by Texan
It's not the tool you choose to use, but the way you choose to use it.

It comes down to the difference between the mind guided by reason and the one guided by mysticism and superstition. The latter can justify anything in support of it's pursuits, the former can't.

 

[alltherage]

You cannot ban ideas. Books are repositories of ideas. The idea of banning is pointless. When the nazi's burned books in germany it should have been a sign of what was to come. To ban a book of any nature is an act of violence against the mind and should never be tolerated. Joking about the possibility only makes stronger those forces that seek to restain free thought and speach. It can never be a good idea to do that.

 

[SweetCherry]

No. But I've seen the effect they have on people...

Just so ya know, I have read the entire bible from cover to cover. Admittedly, I have little or no knowledge of the Koran, but the Bible hasn't warped me. Neither has my 8 years of parochial school upbringing. What warped me was a teacher who tried to use the Bible to shoot down science. He was warped by it, but I've managed to stay above all that. I've sorted out what I take to be fact and combined several ideas of the Bible along with things scientists have said and come up with my own interpretation. I think it's meant to be that way, tho.

 

[Debbie]

Ok I have to admit I like Dr. Suess. Is this the same guy that wraote the Women Are From Venus, Men Are From Mars book. If it is I'm with you all the way.

Yes it is the same guy. *blech* Married for two and a half years, together for over survived. We have survived an emergency triple bypass, (him not me) complications from the bypass (his memory is shot -cognitive memory disorder- which leads to all sorts of frustrations for him), becoming grandparents (his daughter not mine - Im only 32) and raising that grandbaby for four months becuse Mum couldn't cope, my youngest son has a low immune system and being sick a lot of the time. ETC (and elderly mum in law lives with us and two of his kids) So 7 in one household. And after all this we are still together but I get a relationship book? I am so ungrateful I would have preferred Green Eggs and Ham.

And why can't I give this damn book away? I am offering to pay the P and P and still no one wants it? It actaully has some interesting stuff in it. But even if I read it and then passed it on to my hubby he wouldn't remember what it said I bought him gilonka biloba which helps with you memory but he can't remeber to take it! He says lol it's a catch 22 situation. It might help if he could remember to take it.

 

[p_p_man]

Well this is another thread which has grown...

larger than I expected.

Without writing on some individual posts which I would like to but my computer keeps crashing, but just looking at all the various and varied replies, it appears that my point is proven.

They ARE dangerous books to leave lying around.

<-------(for the sake of KM)

 

[Herbie Handcock]

Damn Debbiexxx you don't need a book, you need a vacation.

Good luck getting rid of that book. Since she gave the little wierdo his start maybe Oprah will take it off your hands.

 

[pabloback]

ban all join the dots books that go over 21
[i cant count that high without my hands in my pockets]

 

[teresafannin]

I am not sure about the Koran, but at one time, the Bible WAS one of the most widely censored & banned books in the US. My son did a report on censorship when he was in 5th grade & was very surprised to learn the Bible was on the banned lists in several areas of the country. This was back in the late 80's, but I bet that it hasn't changed. I have read the Bible through, both the Protestant & Catholic versions. I consider it a good read, but I also take into account that over the years & with all the translations, human error must be taken into account. Does anyone remember the guy who posted about original manuscripts of the Bible? I never did get a response from him. NO ONE has the right to dictate to me what I can or can not read.

 

[Black_Bird]

Re: Re: Why not just ban all religions?

To say they genuinely felt the presence of the divine is the sort of irrational presumption... {snip}

I'm not going to get into a "Logic vs. Faith" debate. I'm just going to say that human beings need more then logic to sustain them and sometimes that which sustains them goes beyond rational. You have your convictions, but I won't be pinned down to one or the other.

 

[Debbie]

Damn Debbiexxx you don't need a book, you need a vacation.

Good luck getting rid of that book. Since she gave the little wierdo his start maybe Oprah will take it off your hands.

Do you think if I posted it to her she would be insulted?

 

[dqrich]

Do you think if I posted it to her she would be insulted?

Green eggs and ham,, whoo whhooooo...
Happy New Year Debb

 

[Debbie]

Green eggs and ham,, whoo whhooooo...
Happy New Year Debb

Right back at ya dqrich

 

[dqrich]

Right back at ya dqrich

Smoooooch

 

[sch00lteacher]

As a social studies teacher in NC...

I can teach a class called The History of the Bible. I can require each student to bring a bible to class to use as a text. It is an elective. One I will never teach.

Man I could really mess with some heads in that class. Too much power for me.

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by alltherage
You cannot ban ideas. Books are repositories of ideas. . .

And you'd be surprised how many of the collectivist persuasion have yet to come to grips with this simple concept.

Originally posted by debbiexxx
Yes it is the same guy. *blech* Married for two and a half years, . . .

I'm thinkin' you got some names confused here. Men are from Mars ... was written by John Gray. Dr. Seuss was (now deceased) Theodore Seuss Geisel, a resident of San Diego.

And I'm fairly sure they are two distinctly different people. Gray published another book in 2000 and Dr. Seuss died in the mid 90's I believe.

Originally posted by teresafannin
. . . NO ONE has the right to dictate to me what I can or can not read.

Unfortunately, there are lots of people who, all having the finest of intentions for you best well-being, are certain they know better than you that to which you should and should not be exposed. After all, it's all for your benefit. You should just accept their judgement, shouldn't you? Or will you remain the ingrate who wishes to retain some personal freedom?

Originally posted by Black_Bird
I'm not going to get into a "Logic vs. Faith" debate. . .

Precisely my point; faith is immune to reason (logic). I'm not seeking such a debate; I understand and accept the futility thereof. I just look forward to the day when reason becomes the predominant force in civilization and human interactions.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Necronomicons all around!

 

[Black_Bird]

Precisely my point; faith is immune to reason (logic). I'm not seeking such a debate; I understand and accept the futility thereof. I just look forward to the day when reason becomes the predominant force in civilization and human interactions.

You mean - when human beings are all replaced by robots... uh huh.