The traditional values thread

[teknight]

I deny the existence of 'traditional' values because all values are mutable

Like the Brits have any values anyway!


Well, I meant traditions, but...either way:

 

[where]

Like the Brits have any values anyway!


Well, I meant traditions, but...either way:

whtever. i'm just in need of horn

 

[Keroin]

The weddings-as-big-business trend is really gross. I have a friend who is a wedding and event planner and I think it's gross, even though I like her.

However, i sometimes get wistful when I see pictures of my friends in beautiful white gowns, glowing, with their friends and family. And my picture is a crooked (my friend was a horrible photographer) blurry photo of my husband and I grinning under the christmas tree at the courthouse we were married at. Which is a sweet memory, but no gushing-love-blossoms-puppies-kitties-stuff. :-(

L and I got married by a JP. L wore a tropical shirt and shorts, I wore a flower printed dress...yes, I wore a dress. We were at a lake in the boonies. We let our friends take photos - no professional photog. Actually, we let our friends do pretty much everything, they even wrote our vows for us (we sprang that on them three hours before the ceremony, tee hee) - it was kind of a free for all. Completely nontraditional in every way, but oh so FUN!

Fuck the gushing love blossoms, it's the memories and the individuals that make it special.

*backs away, hides limbs*

 

[teknight]

I deny the existence of 'traditional' values because all values are mutable

*psst* Look below.

Official notice:

Don't traditions evolve anyway?

whtever. i'm just in need of horn

Horn? Human horn? Isn't that the nose?

L and I got married by a JP. L wore a tropical shirt and shorts, I wore a flower printed dress...yes, I wore a dress. We were at a lake in the boonies. We let our friends take photos - no professional photog. Actually, we let our friends do pretty much everything, they even wrote our vows for us (we sprang that on them three hours before the ceremony, tee hee) - it was kind of a free for all. Completely nontraditional in every way, but oh so FUN!

Fuck the gushing love blossoms, it's the memories and the individuals that make it special.

*backs away, hides limbs*

If anybody attacks you for that, they'll have to get through me. That's awesome.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I think 'traditions' and 'traditional values' are very different things, and I'm not liking them being comingled in this thread.

Not that I have much to add on the idea of traditional values. I really don't know much about them. I don't know much about feminism and all that. It's on my extensive list of things I need to knowledge up on when I have the time.

But when I think of 'traditional values' I think of '1950s household' and I've kinda been grokking on that lately.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I have not heard this term "grokking" before. How do you define it?

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

I have not heard this term "grokking" before. How do you define it?

I generally use it as 'learning about something' but also in a 'it feels right' kind of way.

I think. I know what I mean, I don't know if I'm expressing myself like I want.

I think the word itself is a geek thing. I learned it from some geeky boys at uni.

 

[coolpapabell22]

"Grok" is from Stranger in a Strange Land, by Heinlein. It means to know something thoroughly, to truly understand it.

 

[FloggingMolly]

Politically speaking, I don't have these traditional values, partiularly on the race/religion/sexuality restrictions. I'm not pro-life, but I do wish that it wasn't used as a sole form of contraception, and that more encouragement was gven to adopting said babies instead, but hey ho.

As with Lizzie, I often think of 'traditional values' as husband goes out to work, wife stays home full time to raise the kids/keep house/take care of husband. I am quite fond of that, if we could afford it, that is how we would live, however, it's just not doable at present.

 

[YourCaptor]

I have a lot of values that could be traditional.

 

[teknight]

I have a lot of values that could be traditional.

Is being vague one of them?

 

[WriterDom]

I didn't write this. Just humoring the crowd here is all.

Traditional Values are based upon biblical foundations and upon the principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and upon the writings of great political and religious thinkers throughout the ages.

President George Washington, in his Farewell Address in 1796, said that popular government cannot exist without morality—and morality based upon biblical principles. In effect, he defined traditional values in these words:

Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports….And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. – Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure—reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

In short, Bible-based traditional values are what created and what have preserved our nation. We will lose our freedoms if we reject these values.

 

[Netzach]

I deny the existence of 'traditional' values because all values are mutable

This.

My family has strong survivalist traditional family values. Friends are frivolous and don't forge relationships outside the family.

Healthy. Nummy.

 

[intothewoods]

"Traditional values" is code. That's it.

I didn't write this. Just humoring the crowd here is all.

Traditional Values are based upon biblical foundations and upon the principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and upon the writings of great political and religious thinkers throughout the ages.

I agree about the biblical part - when people talk about traditional values, that's usually at the heart of it, but the documents you mention were pretty fucking radical. Still are. I mean what's traditional about revolution?

 

[Netzach]

35 percent of adult women worked in the 50's.

Americans substitute 50's TV for actual history.

 

[Netzach]

"Traditional values" is code. That's it.



I agree about the biblical part - when people talk about traditional values, that's usually at the heart of it, but the documents you mention were pretty fucking radical. Still are. I mean what's traditional about revolution?

Traditional was that the king was closer to God than you'd ever be, so buck up.

 

[midwestyankee]

I didn't write this. Just humoring the crowd here is all.

Traditional Values are based upon biblical foundations and upon the principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and upon the writings of great political and religious thinkers throughout the ages.

President George Washington, in his Farewell Address in 1796, said that popular government cannot exist without morality—and morality based upon biblical principles. In effect, he defined traditional values in these words:

Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports….And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. – Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure—reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

In short, Bible-based traditional values are what created and what have preserved our nation. We will lose our freedoms if we reject these values.

So traditional values means that women do not deserve to vote and that black people only count as 3/5 of a person. How quaint.

 

[Stella_Omega]

35 percent of adult women worked in the 50's.

Americans substitute 50's TV for actual history.

That's because pictures or it didn't happen.

And those were all low-class women anyway. or Bohemians and rebels.

 

[teknight]

That's because pictures or it didn't happen.

And those were all low-class women anyway. or Bohemians and rebels.

History doesn't really teach the little people...and the eccentrics, are just eccentric. You have to teach yourself about them, I've found....

....then again, (and not to stir up anything), I've not taken women's study classes....I'd rather study women on an individual basis

 

[YourCaptor]

Is being vague one of them?

Well for one thing I expect men to be fully accountable for whatever it is they do. Women however I allow much more freedom.

Why? Because I believe the whole point to a man is to be self sufficient, except those cute little feminine boys, they count as girls in my mind.

Women however can be dependent for all I care, and so things may not entirely be on her.

However I will say that my view towards women is more flexible than with men. If a woman dresses and acts girly, I give her every excuse in the world. However if a woman is professional, in charge, she better be on the ball.

I do typically generalize this across everyone. It's one of my schemas, how I make sense of the world.

I think think it's a good one too, and is probably fairly traditional.

 

[00Syd]

That's because pictures or it didn't happen.

And those were all low-class women anyway. or Bohemians and rebels.

Fucking beatniks.

 

[Netzach]

That's because pictures or it didn't happen.

And those were all low-class women anyway. or Bohemians and rebels.

Yeah, shit. I'm not from the librium and puffy skirts set.

 

[JMohegan]

I didn't write this. Just humoring the crowd here is all.

Traditional Values are based upon biblical foundations and upon the principles outlined in the Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, the writings of the Founding Fathers, and upon the writings of great political and religious thinkers throughout the ages.

President George Washington, in his Farewell Address in 1796, said that popular government cannot exist without morality—and morality based upon biblical principles. In effect, he defined traditional values in these words:

Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and morality are indispensable supports….And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. – Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure—reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.

In short, Bible-based traditional values are what created and what have preserved our nation. We will lose our freedoms if we reject these values.

Humoring, huh.

You forgot to link to your source, WD.

http://www.traditionalvalues.org/defined.php

Traditional Values Coalition. Now designated a hate group by the SPLC. And why? Let's see......



Former Presbyterian minister Lou Sheldon has been warning Americans about the “gay threat” since 1980, when he founded the Traditional Values Coalition (TVC), which also is concerned with abortion and national security and takes on liberal activists on a range of issues. The TVC, which today claims to speak for 43,000 churches, lobbies Congress and also mobilizes churches to oppose legislation that it disagrees with. Sheldon’s daughter Andrea Lafferty, a former Reagan Administration official, serves as executive director of the organization.

The group has at times enjoyed remarkable access to the halls of power — during the George W. Bush Administration, Sheldon and Lafferty visited the White House a combined 69 times, meeting personally with Bush in eight of the visits. But that does not mean that it has not long had a record of extreme gay-bashing.

In 1985, Sheldon suggested forcing AIDS victims into “cities of refuge.” In 1992, columnist Jimmy Breslin said that Sheldon told him that “homosexuals are dangerous. They proselytize. They come to the door, and if your son answers and nobody is there to stop it, they grab the son and run off with him. They steal him. They take him away and turn him into a homosexual.” Sheldon later denied that he made the comments, but his website today includes strikingly similar language: “ince homosexuals can’t reproduce, they will simply go after your children for seduction and conversion to homosexuality.” Elsewhere, it claims that “[t]he effort to push adult/child sex … is part of the overall homosexual movement.”

The TVC also asserts that “it is evident that homosexuals molest children at a far greater rate than do their heterosexual counterparts” — a falsehood based on conflating male-male molestation with homosexuality. Gays, it says, molest children at “epidemic rates,” adding: “As homosexuals continue to make inroads into public schools, more children will be molested and indoctrinated into the world of homosexuality. Many of them will die in that world.” With regard to LGBT teen suicides, TVC, under the headline “Homosexual Urban Legends,” claims that “[t]he cold, hard fact is that teens who are struggling with homosexual feelings are more likely to be sexually molested by a homosexual school counselor or teacher than to commit suicide over their feelings of despair.”

The TVC also makes assertions on its website about disproportionate homosexual pedophilia and attacks the idea that people are born gay and the claim that gays want the right to marry for the same reasons that heterosexuals do — the TVC suggests the real purpose of marriage equality is to destroy the concept of marriage and ultimately replace it altogether with group sex and polygamy.

 

[teknight]

The TVC also makes assertions on its website about disproportionate homosexual pedophilia and attacks the idea that people are born gay and the claim that gays want the right to marry for the same reasons that heterosexuals do — the TVC suggests the real purpose of marriage equality is to destroy the concept of marriage and ultimately replace it altogether with group sex and polygamy.

If that's the gay agenda, I'll sign their petitions!!

Joke aside, there are some sick people on this planet.

 

[sb2009]

Well for one thing I expect men to be fully accountable for whatever it is they do. Women however I allow much more freedom.

Why? Because I believe the whole point to a man is to be self sufficient, except those cute little feminine boys, they count as girls in my mind.

Women however can be dependent for all I care, and so things may not entirely be on her.

However I will say that my view towards women is more flexible than with men. If a woman dresses and acts girly, I give her every excuse in the world. However if a woman is professional, in charge, she better be on the ball.

I do typically generalize this across everyone. It's one of my schemas, how I make sense of the world.

I think think it's a good one too, and is probably fairly traditional.

interesting. So dress and mannerisms have a lot do to with what you expect form employees? I dress really nice, feminine if you like; I also have a somewhat youthful and fun personality. But I am also in charge of things an kick ass. The fist is just the way I dress, what flatters my body. The second is how I earn a paycheck.

But it would probably be easier to work for you, I'd be expected to do less. Of course, my cow-workers would be pissed and make my life miserable ;-)