the submissive is in control

["angel" eve]

I know, that when I'm looking for someome to roleplay with online I need to chat with them first, to find out of there's some compatibility. Through experience, I know that although the online world of fantasy is convenient, and you can jump into complex boudary pushing scenes on the first night - you never try that without spending some time discussing what you're looking for.

In playing with my girlfriend, she suggested I go online, and see which of her playmates were around. This isn't ununsual, I've done it before and we've enjoyed a number of online friends this way. Today somone I haden't talked to or played with before happened to be online, since my girlfriend has been talking to him for a few years, I forgot all about talking to him first.

It started out fine, he has a much stronger sadistic side than I do, but although I was a bit on edge, she was turned on hearing me read the words he wrote. I really didn't mind the story as pure fantasy, although I was unable to do exactly has he asked.

The story quickly turned from two dominants sharing a submissive, his more experienced hand guiding mine, into two slaves preforming for a master. I was no longer turned on by his words, only by my girlfriends reaction to them. I've been a switch for a period of time, but lately I've started to become only dominant. The fact that he'd been playing as a dominant much longer than myself being the reason my girlfriend suggested I did try a fantasy with him.

So he, not knowing my limits, tells me to tell my girlfriend she's worthless, a fuck toy, a cum slut, a little whore. My tone of voice changed instantly as i tole my girlfriend what he'd said - humiliation is fine. Verbal humiliation is harder than physical, there are a few limited words my girl has agreed to let me use with her - those that don't bring back any kind of unwanted memories. "worthless" is the most hurtful word I could ever say to her.

I told him, as I'd found it very hard to ignore the accident he'd unknowingly made, that I couldn't do that. Online, we didn't have a safeword, so I couldn't use one. He interpreted me as challenging him, and told me I was just a worthless fuck toy also and I would do as I was told. I considered this fair play, pushing a submissive is not unreasonable.

So I told him the word "worthless" specifically was a hard limit for both my girl and myself. To me, stating something is a hard limit in play or out of play is a very clear thing. The issue can still be discussed, but under no circumstances would you try to push it.

I said goodbye, and thanked him for his time.

He returned with a fair comment, sorry I didn't enjoy myself or similar. But he didn't stop there, he continued saying that 'the pleasure was all mine', 'too bad he couldn't be there to make me do as I was told' and on and on. He told me that he didn't need my excuses, and that's all it was, an excuse. I have never believed a limit is an excuse. It's a reason, and a safeword always means no, even if no doesn't.

It's been 3 hours. I am still upset.

My girlfriend has assured me in the few years she's talked to him, he's never called her that - and if he had, she wouldn't put up with it. So they haden't talked about it and he couldn't have known.

It was 3am his time, possibly he had a bad day or was tired or frustrated.

And finally, she reminded me that he doesn't play in real life at all. He's married to a vanilla woman who lets him play online to fulfill his needs, but he has never had the need to learn about the intricacies and complications of playing in real life.

Probably his BDSM learnings have been exclusively from fantasies. I've been reading about how to play safely in real life for as long as I've been interested in the fantasy.

I still don't feel he has the right to insult someone on the basis of their limits. Yeah, he's just a jerk, there are jerks in every group of people... but my confidence is rather shattered again.

After being with my girlfriend for over 2 1/2 years, I've just finally come into a headspace, in the past couple weeks where I have the confidence to be completely dominant with her. I've felt fantastic. She's been thrilled. All this time we've both been switch, which is horribly inconvenient when both people are leaning towards submissive.

And one jerk, online, is threatening to destroy my confidence. At this point, I can't be submissive, it doesn't feel good. And I feel horribly threatened in a way that makes me feel unable to be dominant. I know this is bull****. But I can't shake it.

Thanks for listening, please tell me I'm not alone.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Well, don't let some disembodied person get you too bent out of shape. He probably got all excited and just lost his sense of empathy.

 

[MissTaken]

It sounds like you handled things well.

 

[Betticus]

Maybe that triggered your protective side.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Yes, you handled it just fine but I don't think all the blame is his. Neither of you knew the other & if you're going to play games with total strangers on the computer, mistakes are going to be made. How was he to know that a particular word was a trigger to vast despair & hurt? He was probably just behaving in what he sees as the Dom way & has probably used the same approach over & over with success. He is probably annoyed that he wasted his time on you.

Over & over on this board we hear the many problems that online relationships can cause because people keep jumping in and getting hot & heavy with strangers who may or may not be who they say they are. Then we hear complaints about the disappointment, the lies told and the hurts that result. Take responsibility for your own choices, please. You know the dangers, we all do. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

 

["angel" eve]

it's not that he was wrong, it was the fact that he refused to understand me when I was saying "this is a hard limit".

every dominant has had a submissive tell them no, be it a hard no, or a soft no. it's disapointing, but are you really saying this disapointment is a reason to insult a submissive?

or have I misunderstood?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Yes, you handled it just fine but I don't think all the blame is his. Neither of you knew the other & if you're going to play games with total strangers on the computer, mistakes are going to be made. How was he to know that a particular word was a trigger to vast despair & hurt? He was probably just behaving in what he sees as the Dom way & has probably used the same approach over & over with success. He is probably annoyed that he wasted his time on you.

Over & over on this board we hear the many problems that online relationships can cause because people keep jumping in and getting hot & heavy with strangers who may or may not be who they say they are. Then we hear complaints about the disappointment, the lies told and the hurts that result. Take responsibility for your own choices, please. You know the dangers, we all do. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

ditto. And ditto to people are not always what they appear to be.

 

[graceanne]

it's not that he was wrong, it was the fact that he refused to understand me when I was saying "this is a hard limit".

every dominant has had a submissive tell them no, be it a hard no, or a soft no. it's disapointing, but are you really saying this disapointment is a reason to insult a submissive?

or have I misunderstood?

no you didn't. He's obviously a wanna be. I'm sorry. *hugs*

 

[incubus'_sub]

I'm sorry, but I think you are making a volcano out of a molehill.

You told your girlfriend what he had written, so in effect you passed the insult straight down the line, but only you knew the effect it would have on her, the word worthless apparently a trigger between you.

From what I have read, online Doms are usually meant to type harsh words to their online subs, it's part of the dynamic. Probably you & your girlfriend are the only people in the world to have the word worthless as a hard limit. I find it hard to believe, no wonder he didn't take you seriously. I'm guessing he thought it was part of the play.

If you have been together with your girlfriend for 2 1/2 years and are just reaching some sort of trust in each other I suggest you stay away from the online thing before it causes you more distress, and concentrate on each other instead.

 

[moraine]

best advice if your going to play is put out the safe word and the hard limits immediatly. Then youll know when hes being a snob or not.

My online master and I have a safe word. Worthless is a HARD LIMIT for me too. We did have a misunderstanding, only he was compassionate and apologized, saying he was unaware. We didnt resume play until a list was filled out and he knew my hard limits.

Its just the safe, sane, consentual way to do things.

After explaining to him that it was a hard limit, an apology wouldnt have been hard to do. Im with you, I think he was in the wrong. But you need to set your limits ahead of time.

Hugs*

 

[incubus'_sub]

Heavens, apparently worthlessnessphobia is taking over the subs'world. All Doms should take heed not to use this dreadfully offensive word ever again. LOL.

A bit off topic but I'm curious. Moraine, you mentioned that your Master is your husband in another thread and here you've said you have an online Master as well. I don't think it's a very common occurance although multiple subs are well known. Maybe you could start a thread explaining how it works to serve 2 Masters. I'd say we'd all be interested to find out.

 

[FungiUg]

best advice if your going to play is put out the safe word and the hard limits immediatly. Then youll know when hes being a snob or not.

Sometimes it's hard to know what your hard limits are until you run across them.

Personally, I do the online D/s thing rarely (if at all), and part of it is because of the lack of feedback in terms of voice, intonation and body language. In person works for me because I have something to judge against.

You were mixing to two... and that just sounds damned awkward.

What I *have* done with friends is do a "demonstration". I haven't worked by proxy. That for me is just too fraught with what happened here -- the issues of the middle person changing the dynamic between the other two.

Um... I'd say you handled the dynamic well, and basically you need to just let go of your anger and say 'we stuffed up', and learn from it.

 

[moraine]

Actually I did post up a little bio. But Ill do it again

I dropped into a Yahoo Chat one day and clicked on a BDSM room.

My Current Online Master (Yes I serve two with permission of both) told me at the time, I seemed out of place.

Over a period of six months he had showed me and explained to me the meanings of BDSM. Subs, Slaves, Masters, Mistress, Tops, Bottoms. In in the six months I came to trust and believe in him. He never asked anything of me before that time. So I tried it out online. We have since been together and I collared to him. Its been 7 years now. Yes I believe the online experience will help in the real of things. The submitting and daily chores and orders were wonderful and fullfilling

We had an agreement, since he was in Scotland, and I was in Cali. there wasnt going to be a change of living situation. He told me to seek avenues that would show me true experience of the lifestyle, and so I did. I met a few doms and had some exp. It was wonderful. In ALL cases I made sure they knew I had an online Master that wished me to learn real life the lifestyle. His belief that was, I could not fully understand submissivness without experiencing it first hand. He himself had a sub at home and that never bothered either of us.

After a few years, I found a man I feel in love with on a vanilla basis. I told Master about it, and he agreed that it was unfair to keep me from pursuing life relationships, since he could never fullfill that physical touch, and living together. After four years of dating and one of marriage ( I didnt like sex, It was not right for reasons i will explain) One night (there were others that were like this but not where i explained) He tied me up to the bed and did the dom like thing. Hes dominant by nature. I told him later that night that I believed this was what was holding me back. I was a submissive. I told him I had an Online Master and that, the lifestyle gave me more pleasure than any amount of sex.

My husband was thrilled. He went to a local club and trained on how to use a whip and do other things that could satisfy us both. He loves it. a little less about master online, but after talking to him they came to an agreement how things would work. (talking can solve everything) Now I submit to my husband in all ways he asks, which are agreed upon by our list, sometimes we experiement with things I do online.

So Yes to answer your question I serve two masters. But my heart lies with my husband. Just recently I have talked to my online master and told him, that the serving to masters was getting to be a strain. My husband holds reign over him and sometimes they conflict. We are in the deciding phase if we should call it off and just stay friends. Id hate to lose my trainer, my mentor, and someone I do love online, but my husband comes first and foremost.


No matter the outcome, master online will always be the one, that brought me to the scene. And my husband the one that fullfills my inner need for submission. Its great taht my husband is so fullfilled by it himself. I didnt have to ask him to do it, he was natural, and takes care in doing all things to me and with me.

I dont think you were attacking me, hoping at least. But there a great many ppl that have two Masters. There are some that follow the story of O, in having to give over to others at a Masters order.
Its not uncommon, I hope this was an informative post for you, I like your posts and I get along with alot of the pps here. I love the discussion and its good to get to know each other.
So theres the LONG version of it

Moi

 

[PolloJack]

You handeled the situation as I would expect any sub to do so. With him continuing to go he was just being arogant. Don't let words of the mindless get into your mind. Some can play as masters but have no understanding of how it truely is.

*hugs* No sexual way I am not that far into sodomy ha ha.

P.S. Moraine I also detected some hostility from incubus. Do not be so rude please incubus, everyone is entilted to their own oppinion even you.

 

[fallon2]

I have said

that everyone is different and has different needs.

I have met several women WHO did have two Masters. One woman did not even realize that her husband was becoming a Master to her.

As always, we need to get along and not belittle others. If you did not think you were . . . well, then, good.

Otherwise, we can ALL learn from each other.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Nope, no hostility at all, I just came straight to the point & asked what I wanted to know about. I haven't really come across that situation before. O was given from one to the other which is a bit different.

Thank you Moraine. It must be very hard to maintain, but very interesting.

PolloJack, I don't always have the time to pussyfoot around composing my simple questions in flowery prose in case someone, somewhere, might assume (wrongly it seems) a rude attitude. I'm pretty straightforward. Moraine kindly answered my question in the manner in which it was asked. You had no need, except your own perhaps, to jump in as you did.

 

[A Desert Rose]

... I don't always have the time to pussyfoot around composing my simple questions in flowery prose in case someone, somewhere, might assume (wrongly it seems) a rude attitude. I'm pretty straightforward. Moraine kindly answered my question in the manner in which it was asked. You had no need, except your own perhaps, to jump in as you did.

A woman after my own heart!!!

 

[Kajira Callista]

hi ADR

 

[A Desert Rose]

hi ADR

giggling at you!!!

 

[Kajira Callista]

giggling at you!!!

so..(i didnt read the thread so no yelling at me k?) is the submissive really in control of anything?

 

[FungiUg]

so..(i didnt read the thread so no yelling at me k?) is the submissive really in control of anything?

Read the thread. *smack*

 

[Kajira Callista]

Read the thread. *smack*

hehehehe

 

[PolloJack]

Simply keep questions on people in PMs. I suppose yall could start a little post on it if you wished. I personnaly have no care. You were changing the subject of the post and I though it was in a hostile manner. My dearest apalogize otherwise. Just many hmm.. jerks on-line so to speak. Ugh I will shut it, no need to put it in so many terms.

 

[Kajira Callista]

hmmmmm *looks at her watch* i was supposed to meet ADR here hours ago, wonder where she is.

 

[A Desert Rose]

hmmmmm *looks at her watch* i was supposed to meet ADR here hours ago, wonder where she is.

I'm following you doll face!!! LOL