The 'stimulus' isn't going to work, and why.

[Sharon_]

You changed the subject. It was about Obama raising your taxes... federal taxes on Cigarettes.

Obama can't raise taxes, that's Congress. Obama makes suggestions and signs off on it. Congress' bailiwick.

And the false premise that the Federal cap and trade would raise your propane rates.

Not a false premise, I just heard Newt Gingrich discussing it. As I suspected, they're gonna pass this cap & trade (in reality a stealth carbon tax) right on down the line to all of us consumers.

As for the end of subsidies, you would rather pay higher income taxes?

Actually, yes. Cuz the very second they ceased all these embedded taxes and put it bald faced in your eye income taxes it would NEVER get passed, not if any of those Congress Critters wanted to retain their seat....so they hide them in the form of all these embedded taxes.

As for ethanol, that is one reason they can lower everyone else's income taxes, because farmers can make money from their product for ethanol.

We discussed this last year...it raises feed prices.

As for your comment about cows being slaughtered, cite?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYU_1F-P1PoGgkJGfDG7NPd6EmoAD96CJJF00

The price of beef is actually down over last year:[/quote]

<sigh>
DAIRY cattle, not beef. Dairy cows make poor beef.

My butcher sends out all the way to Chicago for his beef cuz all that's available to him here is the dairy cattle, which is inferior.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Obama can't raise taxes, that's Congress. Obama makes suggestions and signs off on it. Congress' bailiwick.



Not a false premise, I just heard Newt Gingrich discussing it. As I suspected, they're gonna pass this cap & trade (in reality a stealth carbon tax) right on down the line to all of us consumers.



Actually, yes. Cuz the very second they ceased all these embedded taxes and put it bald faced in your eye income taxes it would NEVER get passed, not if any of those Congress Critters wanted to retain their seat....so they hide them in the form of all these embedded taxes.



We discussed this last year...it raises feed prices.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iYU_1F-P1PoGgkJGfDG7NPd6EmoAD96CJJF00

The price of beef is actually down over last year:

<sigh>
DAIRY cattle, not beef. Dairy cows make poor beef.

My butcher sends out all the way to Chicago for his beef cuz all that's available to him here is the dairy cattle, which is inferior.

Obama can threaten veto. Obama actually proposed the budget to Congress.

Milk prices are actually down over last year, too:

http://www.nmpf.org/files/image/Dairy%20price%20graph%20Feb_%202009.jpg

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

All income tax, (whether flat or progressive) is still communist.

If income tax is communist, so much the better for communism. (Same as with universal public education.)

It isn't, of course.

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

What is a sad and disastrous error, is the error of your ways.

If we do what you're suggesting, America will be a Third World country in less than 20 years.

 

[Sharon_]

But...they should never tax essential items like food. It would be tough to figure out what is essential, or not.

Why not?

Heat is essential...and they tax it now.

Electric & water are essential...and they tax it now.

Prescriptions can be essential, and my state taxes them now...$1/per.

I bet we even tax folks' oxygen tanks.

 

[unregistered]

 

[incubus666]

How about if the government, that collected the sales tax, provided each family with a rebate to cover the tax on basic necessities?

 

[TurdFergeson]

If income tax is communist, so much the better for communism. (Same as with universal public education.)

It isn't, of course.

Income tax is too east to avoid.

A Federal sales tax would make sure everyone pays. No tax shelters or havens.

 

[TurdFergeson]

We didn't have an income tax before the 16th Amendment. A sales tax is a tax on consumption and therefore a tax on production as well. A flat tax is equitable to all.

But income tax is not a tax on production?

 

[KingOrfeo]

We didn't have an income tax before the 16th Amendment. A sales tax is a tax on consumption and therefore a tax on production as well. A flat tax is equitable to all.

But, a flat tax is an income tax -- isn't it?

And how can any tax not be a tax on production in some sense? Even real-property tax is a tax on production, in the sense that the taxable value of real property depends on what use is made of it.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Why not?

Heat is essential...and they tax it now.

Electric & water are essential...and they tax it now.

Prescriptions can be essential, and my state taxes them now...$1/per.

I bet we even tax folks' oxygen tanks.

How about if the government, that collected the sales tax, provided each family with a rebate to cover the tax on basic necessities?

Good idea.

 

[Sharon_]

Obama can threaten veto. Obama actually proposed the budget to Congress.

Yes, dear....he can threaten veto and Congress can do what it wants. Yes, I know he proposed it--he's allowed to do that; but all he does is sign off on it--or not. Congress still gets to do what it wants.

Milk prices are actually down over last year, too:

Um. I know...that's *why* the cows are getting slaughtered. Did you not read the link you asked me to hunt up?

Milk is selling for less than it costs them to produce it (deflation) so they're slaughtering the cows. Now, how many cows do you suppose they can slaughter before the price of milk rebounds and becomes so high that you can't afford to buy milk?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Income tax is too east to avoid.

How does that make it communist?

 

[JohnnySavage]

How does that make it communist?

East = Communist.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Yes, dear....he can threaten veto and Congress can do what it wants. Yes, I know he proposed it--he's allowed to do that; but all he does is sign off on it--or not. Congress still gets to do what it wants.



Um. I know...that's *why* the cows are getting slaughtered. Did you not read the link you asked me to hunt up?

Milk is selling for less than it costs them to produce it (deflation) so they're slaughtering the cows. Now, how many cows do you suppose they can slaughter before the price of milk rebounds and becomes so high that you can't afford to buy milk?

Because of ethanol? I agree, but if you get rid of ethanol subsidies farmers will start crying for more regular subsidies.

Like I said: Ethanol subsides = bad,

But regular ag subsidies to farms making over 1/2 mil. per year = good?

 

[KingOrfeo]

I bet we get there quicker under Obama's plan.

But, your great fear WRT Obama's policies seems to be that America will become more like the nations of Europe -- which are not Third World countries.

 

[TurdFergeson]

How does that make it communist?

Haha..easy to avoid. That in itself does not make it communist. Taxing income progressively is one of the planks of the old Marx Manifesto.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Milk is selling for less than it costs them to produce it (deflation) so they're slaughtering the cows. Now, how many cows do you suppose they can slaughter before the price of milk rebounds and becomes so high that you can't afford to buy milk?

I'd hate to live without cheese -- but, you know, if it ever comes to that, we don't really need milk; no dairy product is essential to the nutrition of any human over the age of two. No other mammal consumes milk after weaning.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[Ham Murabi]

I haven't bothered to check, but has any moron said "ALL government spending is stimulus"?

 

[richard_daily]

They are to me, that's where it all began, this is where the action is...or was until Democrats took over the Congress and we elected a collectivist who covets all that isn't his.

Herein lies the problem... it's you.

You think that nations with higher GDP, higher levels of education, better pre-natal care, lower infant mortality rates, higher literacy rates, and higher levels of savings are "third world nations"?

You won't be happy until we're all a nation of complete fools, chasing the golden ring... and buying whatever tripe the right wing comes up with next.

 

[KingOrfeo]

They are to me . . .

Well, that would make you an idiot, if not insane.