The 'stimulus' isn't going to work, and why.

[Sharon_]

OR...overproduction.

Which you conveniently leave out.

Not convenient, just didn't think about it. Do you really think overproduction applies in this case?

And, Obama did specifically say anyone making less than $250,000/year will not see their taxes raised.

Then I guess he lied, huh? Cuz I make less than $250,000/year and my taxes just got raised...and they're gonna get raised again when that cap & trade tax works its way down to my propane man and electric company, right?

But this is really about Cigarette taxes, right?

No, it's about *all* of them. The tobacco tax (it's not just on cigarettes, it's also on cigars and rolling papers) was just the first one to hit the street.

EVERY administration has riased taxes on them. For good reason, they KILL people and put a HUGE drain on the medical system.

It's good you think you're equipped to judge what legal activities others should/should not engage in and penalize them for it.

So does sugar and booze and multiple sex partners. Do you think treating lung cancer costs any more than treating cervical cancer from HPV or AIDS or decades of diabetes and its complications?

 

[TurdFergeson]

How come I can't make my own whiskey?

That's a good question. You can make your own beer or wine.

You can grow tobacco in your back yard.

But you can't have a still.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Not convenient, just didn't think about it. Do you really think overproduction applies in this case?



Then I guess he lied, huh? Cuz I make less than $250,000/year and my taxes just got raised...and they're gonna get raised again when that cap & trade tax works its way down to my propane man and electric company, right?



No, it's about *all* of them. The tobacco tax (it's not just on cigarettes, it's also on cigars and rolling papers) was just the first one to hit the street.



It's good you think you're equipped to judge what legal activities others should/should not engage in and penalize them for it.

So does sugar and booze and multiple sex partners. Do you think treating lung cancer costs any more than treating cervical cancer from HPV or AIDS or decades of diabetes and its complications?

1. Yes...overproduction certainly applies in the case of real estate and the subsequent crash.

2. No, you choose to pay those higher taxes. Your propane will not be higher unless you are using an amount over the limit. Which would only apply to companies who use a lot of energy. Which in reality drive up the prices of energy for everyone.

3.What other new taxes are there that are mandatory? No one is forcing you to buy cigarettes, you could grow your own tobacco.

4. Again, it's your choice to buy expensive taxed cigarettes when you could legally grow your own for free and pay no tax.

5. Yes, I think tobacco costs more per capita than any of the other things you mention.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Sharon_]

That's a good question. You can make your own beer or wine.
You can grow tobacco in your back yard.

But you can't have a still.

No, you cannot grow tobacco in your back yard, or make your own beer or wine tax free.

There's tax on the tobacco seeds, tax on the fertilizer and SCHOOL TAX on the water.

There's tax on the yeast you buy to make your wine or beer with and tax on the various beer ingredients and equipment....and tax on the strawberry or grape plants you buy to make your wine with, and tax on the fertilizer and equipement and SCHOOL TAX on the water.

 

[TurdFergeson]

No, you cannot grow tobacco in your back yard, or make your own beer or wine tax free.

There's tax on the tobacco seeds, tax on the fertilizer and SCHOOL TAX on the water.

There's tax on the yeast you buy to make your wine or beer with and tax on the various beer ingredients and equipment....and tax on the strawberry or grape plants you buy to make your wine with, and tax on the fertilizer and equipement and SCHOOL TAX on the water.

Rain is free.

And there are only State sales taxes. And not every state has sales taxes on those things.

I see no federal taxes on these tobacco seeds:

http://www.seedman.com/Tobacco.htm

 

[Sharon_]

Rain is free.

Rain is not free here, rain costs about $40 every three months (plus SCHOOLTAX). There's sewage assessment on a wooded parcel because it rains on it.

And there are only State sales taxes. And not every state has sales taxes on those things.

My state requires sales tax. If the state I buy from charges no sales tax then I am required to record on my taxes the $value of those items and pay my state's sales tax on them.

 

[TurdFergeson]

Rain is not free here, rain costs about $40 every three months (plus SCHOOLTAX). There's sewage assessment on a wooded parcel because it rains on it.



My state requires sales tax. If the state I buy from charges no sales tax then I am required to record on my taxes the $value of those items and pay my state's sales tax on them.

And what does any of that have to do with Obama?

 

[KingOrfeo]

Where does it end?

If you look at the other industrial democracies in the world, it ends nowhere bad.

 

[KingOrfeo]

That's a good question. You can make your own beer or wine.

You can grow tobacco in your back yard.

But you can't have a still.

Actually, I think you can -- so long as you don't try to sell the product.

Not sure on that point. Of course, homemade whisky is dangerous in a way homemade beer is not. Lotsa stories from Prohibition about drunks being blinded or killed because what they drank contained methanol (wood alcohol). If it's not illegal, it should be.

 

[Sharon_]

And what does any of that have to do with Obama?

Why are you changing the subject? No one was talking about Obama--well, you were when you said he said he wasn't going to raise taxes on regular folks--but we were talking about taxes and how they got raised on regular folks and wasn't that the very last thing that should be done during a recession in order to prevent the dreaded deflation.

Last I knew it was Congress that raised taxes and controlled the purse strings, not the President; I've never understood why the President gets the blame or credit when it's Congress who wields that sword....then you went off on a tangent about I wouldn't have to pay any taxes if I didn't want to and I pointed out your error.

There's always taxes....and the last ten years more of them and on more things.

 

[Sharon_]

Actually, I think you can -- so long as you don't try to sell the product.

Nope. No stills.

You can raise tobacco, make beer or wine--but only in strictly limited quantities and you're not allowed to sell it.

But no distilling.

 

[unregistered]

 

[HeavyStick]

How come I can't make my own whiskey?

Depending on the state you can, the tricky part is calculating the amount of tax you need to pay.

Micro-distilleries are beginning to pop up across the country.

 

[unregistered]

 

[TurdFergeson]

Why are you changing the subject? No one was talking about Obama--well, you were when you said he said he wasn't going to raise taxes on regular folks--but we were talking about taxes and how they got raised on regular folks and wasn't that the very last thing that should be done during a recession in order to prevent the dreaded deflation.

Last I knew it was Congress that raised taxes and controlled the purse strings, not the President; I've never understood why the President gets the blame or credit when it's Congress who wields that sword....then you went off on a tangent about I wouldn't have to pay any taxes if I didn't want to and I pointed out your error.

There's always taxes....and the last ten years more of them and on more things.

You changed the subject. It was about Obama raising your taxes... federal taxes on Cigarettes.

And the false premise that the Federal cap and trade would raise your propane rates.

My taxes are up $9/week coming April 1....that's $36 less a month that I have less to spend on just that one embedded tax. How about you?

Cap and trade is going to cause my propane and electric to go up, no?
(and probably water/sewage bill, garbage collection, gasoline since they all use carbon fuels somehow).

And I keep hearing rumors of an increase on gasoline tax.

Seems to me us 'po folks are going to be seeing a whopping big raise in our taxes....and the cost of food. As is, not taking into account whatever the percentage of feed corn has to go ethanol *this* year (or the elimination of the farm subsidies for those farms making over $500,000), just as is the dairy farmers are going to slaughter an estimated 100,000 cows this year cuz they can't afford to feed them. So there goes up all our dairy products.

As for the end of subsidies, you would rather pay higher income taxes?

As for ethanol, that is one reason they can lower everyone else's income taxes, because farmers can make money from their product for ethanol.

As for your comment about cows being slaughtered, cite?

The price of beef is actually down over last year:

http://www.agmanager.info/livestock/marketing/graphs/Cattle/Prices/Boxed%20Beef/Choice-Select%20Spread/ChSelSprd_files/In%20the%20Cattle%20Markets_277_image003.gif

 

[KingOrfeo]

Who gives a damn about what they do anywhere else?

It's called "learning." If what we see done in other countries yields beneficial results with no overwhelming downside (which what you fatuously misperceive as erosion of "freedom" is not), then we should at least consider trying it. That's just plain common sense. If the Japanese invented a Mr. Fusion, would you reject it as "un-American"?

 

[TurdFergeson]

Interesting:

Ethanol subsidies = BAD!

Regular ag subsidies to farms making over 1/2 mil. per year = Good!

 

[HeavyStick]

But you're saying you still have to pay a tax to do so, to me that diminishes freedom to a privilege. No?

To escape taxes, I believe it also depends upon the quantity produced. Unless it's for commercial then you cannot escape the taxation.

God Bless a sober America.

 

[unregistered]

 

[unregistered]

 

[TurdFergeson]

Not at all, we should be erring on the side of freedom not on the side of government fiat. Read the Tenth Amendment. It's time to scrap the tax code, the IRS, and bring discipline to the Congress with a flat tax. Maybe we should hang a few citizens while we're at it.

A flat tax is also unconstitutional. The original text said all taxes should be apportioned.

The 16th amendment took away the apportionment clause. Which seems wrong.

It was logical, since states with higher populations will use more government benefits.

Why should a smaller state be forced to pay the same amount as a larger state (flat tax), when the smaller state uses much less tax money for their own purposes due to their lower population?

All income tax, (whether flat or progressive) is still communist. Federal Sales tax is the only fair way.

 

[Sharon_]

A flat tax is also unconstitutional. The original text said all taxes should be apportioned.

The 16th amendment took away the apportionment clause. Which seems wrong.

It was logical, since states with higher populations will use more government benefits.

Why should a smaller state be forced to pay the same amount as a larger state (flat tax), when the smaller state uses much less tax money for their own purposes due to their lower population?

All income tax, (whether flat or progressive) is still communist. Federal Sales tax is the only fair way.

we agree!!!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Not at all, we should be erring on the side of freedom not on the side of government fiat.

Not if it's the way you define "freedom," we shouldn't! Based on the remainder of your post, that would be a sad and disastrous error indeed! We go that way, we'll be a Third World country in less than 20 years.

 

[TurdFergeson]

we agree!!!

But...they should never tax essential items like food. It would be tough to figure out what is essential, or not.