The significance of "Sir" or similar

[gamerdom]

I wanted to bring this up for discussion because I just had a recent sub bring this up to me. One of the rules I had given her was to address me as Sir (it was actually Master but I know how uncomfortable that makes some people). Her comment was that her saying it does not show any kind of authority to me. In this case, I kind of let it pass because she kind of was not the best submissive in the world anyhow and was not expecting it last (she had potential and I had hope I could help her bring it out).

I wanted to ask what everyone else thought of the topic. Do others believe it's significant? Or are there more that are of her opinion that it does not prove/show anything for the dominant?

 

[desertslave]

I wanted to bring this up for discussion because I just had a recent sub bring this up to me. One of the rules I had given her was to address me as Sir (it was actually Master but I know how uncomfortable that makes some people). Her comment was that her saying it does not show any kind of authority to me. In this case, I kind of let it pass because she kind of was not the best submissive in the world anyhow and was not expecting it last (she had potential and I had hope I could help her bring it out).

I wanted to ask what everyone else thought of the topic. Do others believe it's significant? Or are there more that are of her opinion that it does not prove/show anything for the dominant?

I think I might have asked what word or words would have held meaning for her, in that case.

I do think that it's a very subjective thing. Some people grow up (particularly in the southern US, I've noted in my travels) calling almost everyone Sir or Ma'am. That rather dilutes the words, then, in a D/s situation...or not, considering it it still conveying a degree of respect to another (IMO).

In the situation in which I was trained, Sir was something you called others of a PYL persuasion (in appropriate situations), and Master was what a pyl called the PYL they belonged to, if it was requested in the relationship. So many nuances, though! My first PYL made it clear that I was in a training-only relationship, so I was never allowed or asked to call him Master. I've had one, and only one, Master in my life.

 

[gamerdom]

I think I might have asked what word or words would have held meaning for her, in that case.

Thats how Sir became what she called me. She asked if Master could not be the word. Even with Sir, she was very resistant to addressing me as anything.

I do think that it's a very subjective thing. Some people grow up (particularly in the southern US, I've noted in my travels) calling almost everyone Sir or Ma'am. That rather dilutes the words, then, in a D/s situation...or not, considering it it still conveying a degree of respect to another (IMO).

This is actually quite a good observation. I visit my sisters, who live in the south, often enough to notice the same. It just had not clicked till you mentioned it.

In the situation in which I was trained, Sir was something you called others of a PYL persuasion (in appropriate situations), and Master was what a pyl called the PYL they belonged to, if it was requested in the relationship. So many nuances, though! My first PYL made it clear that I was in a training-only relationship, so I was never allowed or asked to call him Master. I've had one, and only one, Master in my life.

I've always taught those I've met this as well.

 

[seela]

I don't care for any honorific titles either. We don't use them normally here and using them simply sounds pompous and very silly to me. Now, if I was told to address someone as sir or master as an exercise in very mild humiliation, then it would work because it's simply something that would be uncomfortable for me.

But nope, I definitely don't attach any feelings of greater respect or authority to those kinds of words at all.

Edit: I probably should add that people here very rarely address each other by any name at all when they speak, so adding sirs and whatnot is extremely artificial.

 

[DenialGirl81]

I have the opposite view to your sub. Calling my Master 'Sir' gives a real air of authority .Yes, I do call other people Sir in my day to day life, working in a shop I will say to customers 'can I help you, Sir?', but that is in a professional context. I would not address anyone other than my Master as Sir outside of my job so for me, using 'Sir' immediately establishes his control and authority over me.

 

[submissannie]

Depends on the people involved, but for me I like saying it, it makes me feel controlled and powerless and makes the Dom more.... dominant. But that's just me...

 

[Tech_Director]

There will be many opinions

I'm going to weigh in here on this and please understand that this is MY opinion, so take it or leave it.

I also have submissives address Me as sir not only online but in real life when we're alone. In public that would be pushing the envelope too far.

It's simply a matter of respect and setting a particular headspace. When they do this, it takes them away from thinking of you as their "boyfriend" or "lover" or "husband". Saying sir puts them in a place where they think of you as their Dominant.

Master on the other hand I reserve for those that are actually wearing My collar and I don't demand that they address Me as such even at that time, in fact if a submissive addresses Me that way without a collar, I correct her.

I will say this though, if you meet one that doesn't want to address you in the way you feel you should be addressed, have a discussion with her about it and if she brings up a valid reason then it's your turn to respect her by allowing her that leeway.

 

[gamerdom]

I have the opposite view to your sub. Calling my Master 'Sir' gives a real air of authority .Yes, I do call other people Sir in my day to day life, working in a shop I will say to customers 'can I help you, Sir?', but that is in a professional context. I would not address anyone other than my Master as Sir outside of my job so for me, using 'Sir' immediately establishes his control and authority over me.

This is what I've always thought as well. For me from the dominant perspective, I've always thought it a bit rude not to be addressed as something. Now, I normally let the submissive or slave decide which they'd like to call me, but an honorific is always used.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I don't care for any honorific titles either. We don't use them normally here and using them simply sounds pompous and very silly to me. Now, if I was told to address someone as sir or master as an exercise in very mild humiliation, then it would work because it's simply something that would be uncomfortable for me.

But nope, I definitely don't attach any feelings of greater respect or authority to those kinds of words at all.

Edit: I probably should add that people here very rarely address each other by any name at all when they speak, so adding sirs and whatnot is extremely artificial.

Yes, honorifics come off culturally awkward for me too. It does take some getting used to when I travel where they are expected and used.

For me, respect is either there or it is not.
Using titles etc makes no difference for me. I've learned from the time I've spent in places where titles are used, that it is quite possible to say "Sir" or any other honorific title in a way that makes it mean the opposite of respect.

 

[nurseclynn]

Sir...

I wanted to ask what everyone else thought of the topic. Do others believe it's significant? Or are there more that are of her opinion that it does not prove/show anything for the dominant?

I think it is really very dependent on the person you are in a relationship with.
For me, "Sir" is not part of my day to day interactions, though I will occasionally address a man older than me as Sir out of simple courtesy, as well as military and police officers. I have been known to playfully call male friends sir in banter... but that is clearly not an honorific.

For my private life... I very much like to call my Dom, Sir. It does get me in a certain headspace. It reminds me of the commitments that I have made to him and the way that we have chosen to relate to each other. Now that I wear his collar, I also call him Master...not all the time....but whenever he wants me to. And though I would have imagined absolutely hating calling anyone Master... I find that it is even more powerful than Sir... as there is no one else I will ever call Master... and it is a reinforcement as I say the word that I am His...and my submission deepens.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Submissive1tou]

Sir

I've noticed that it differs between Doms on their preference. I comply with using Sir and usually enjoy it. I see it as a reminder of our roles and a show of respect. I've met some though who don't care whether you address them as Sir, Master or their given name as long as you show proper respect they see it as all the same. As for Master, personally I've rarely used it but agree that to me it has a deeper feel to it than Sir.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Netzach]

I never steer anyone, I always encourage them to call me what THEY think they should and that my name is also fine, because hello, talk about gaining relevant information!

I know what/who *I* think I am. What they think I am is what I don't know.

Sir/Ma'am feel retailish and distant to me, unless I know you're also coming from Leather and then I'm flattered as hell. Ms. Mylastname is nice. Antiquated fantasy novel terminology tells me we're probably not into the same reading material. Goddess means I will laugh at you and you, being able to "Goddess" someone, will probably love me for it. As long as it's not disrespectful, it's respectful enough.

I agree that titles are, alone, pretty meaningless.

But we're not talking about titles, really are we? We are talking about a direct order. A request, if you will.

If I am feeling a whim, and I tell my submissive, a submissive I have a history and familiarity with, to call me "Queen of all Marshmallow Fluff with a Tassel on her Tits" then I absolutely expect them to do it posthaste. I don't really care how this enhances their respect for me or not, going into detail about how you feel about something that harmless is complete fail. It's not about YOU sunshine. This is hardly permanent marking we're talking about. A lot of alleged submissives are unwilling to turn down their impressive scampering "what does this mean to me" brain and JUST DO. Life is far too short for those headgames, to me.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[gamerdom]

I never steer anyone, I always encourage them to call me what THEY think they should and that my name is also fine, because hello, talk about gaining relevant information!

I know what/who *I* think I am. What they think I am is what I don't know.

Sir/Ma'am feel retailish and distant to me, unless I know you're also coming from Leather and then I'm flattered as hell. Ms. Mylastname is nice. Antiquated fantasy novel terminology tells me we're probably not into the same reading material. Goddess means I will laugh at you and you, being able to "Goddess" someone, will probably love me for it. As long as it's not disrespectful, it's respectful enough.

I agree that titles are, alone, pretty meaningless.

That's actually a good way to do to be honest. I feel this explains her (the woman in question) views a bit better.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

Generic titles will get a generic response. Some people want or need a depth of emotional connection to engage sexually or otherwise and some really don't. But bad chemistry doesn't have to mean bad sub/master. Just means not a good fit.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

I wanted to bring this up for discussion because I just had a recent sub bring this up to me. One of the rules I had given her was to address me as Sir (it was actually Master but I know how uncomfortable that makes some people). Her comment was that her saying it does not show any kind of authority to me. In this case, I kind of let it pass because she kind of was not the best submissive in the world anyhow and was not expecting it last (she had potential and I had hope I could help her bring it out).

I wanted to ask what everyone else thought of the topic. Do others believe it's significant? Or are there more that are of her opinion that it does not prove/show anything for the dominant?

What I hear her telling you is... "You can make me say the words, but I won't afford you the respect you want along with it". And if I understand what you wrote correctly, you asked her to call you master. You note it makes some people uncomfortable, but it sounds to me as though you jumped the gun on that one with her, and you didn't earn her respect first. She sounds reluctant to call you anything out of respect, because you haven't earned it (my interpretation, obviously). If this is just one scene, she should have acquiesced or explained it as a limit. If it is a relationship, it doesn't sound like you understand what motivates her.

As to the term in general, it is a recognized term of respect. But as Elle pointed out, you can deliver it either in earnest, or with your lip curled. As with all spoken communicating, the meaning imparted can be malleable.

 

[Netzach]

I like your input here. And agree I think.

But then if the conversation is not just about titles then is it not equally about communication? And why the pyl was not open about this before the situation arose or at what stage this conversation was had? If this was an early in the game discussion then ....is it also about setting parameters for communication?

Maybe. Sort of. For me, early on, I would see it as a kind of lynchpin. If it's someone I'm super invested in, and vice-versa then I would care if "you know, calling you Queen of all Marshmallow Fluff with Tassels on Her Tits is giving me some trouble lately...and here's why." If it's someone I'm starting to do D/s with, they're singing the song of "Me sub, you Domme" then I expect them to walk the walk on something this minimal and this basic. Unless it's somehow deeply traumatizing, in which case sure, I'm listening. If not, I really truly don't care and should not have to, or this "submission" thing is not as it is being advertised.

Again, this isn't about terminology. I don't care if they think it's the stupidest thing in the known world that I want them to say. Do it, or stop wasting our time.

 

[gamerdom]

What I hear her telling you is... "You can make me say the words, but I won't afford you the respect you want along with it". And if I understand what you wrote correctly, you asked her to call you master. You note it makes some people uncomfortable, but it sounds to me as though you jumped the gun on that one with her, and you didn't earn her respect first. She sounds reluctant to call you anything out of respect, because you haven't earned it (my interpretation, obviously). If this is just one scene, she should have acquiesced or explained it as a limit. If it is a relationship, it doesn't sound like you understand what motivates her.

As to the term in general, it is a recognized term of respect. But as Elle pointed out, you can deliver it either in earnest, or with your lip curled. As with all spoken communicating, the meaning imparted can be malleable.

Did I ask if I jumped the gun? NO. I asked what people thought about the concept. If you continued to read my posts, you'd note that I said I normally let the sub use whatever honorific they want. Next time please read all my posts.

 

[CutieMouse]

Did I ask if I jumped the gun? NO. I asked what people thought about the concept. If you continued to read my posts, you'd note that I said I normally let the sub use whatever honorific they want. Next time please read all my posts.

Sensitive much?

I think a recent lover suggested I call him Sir. He got a raised eyebrow, in response. (Said gentleman also referred to me as "his sub" because according to his formula kinky sex and a bit of belt work = the "his sub" label. No, that was kinky sex and belt work.)

Anyway...

I think I've compromised and used "Daddy" before, but most often I simply use a specific term of endearment - Dear, Sweetheart, Love, etc, that is never used with anyone else for the duration if the relationship.

 

[Collar_N_Cuffs]

Did I ask if I jumped the gun? NO. I asked what people thought about the concept. If you continued to read my posts, you'd note that I said I normally let the sub use whatever honorific they want. Next time please read all my posts.

I said it was my interpretation of the situation on what you posted, my thoughts. You don't have to be a fucking dickhead. Such a shame you didn't like what I have to say. Those were my thoughts. *shrug* Those hair trigger nerves can be a bitch.

 

[Bound2One]

I find the use of the term Sir, or whatever the 2 parties have determined in its stead, to be almost necessary. It breaks that boundary of a usual relationship, and brings it into our realm. It's a term of endearment, in a way, that helps hold things together. The saying of the word Sir by the sub should reinforce their submission. Likewise, hearing the submissive call you Sir should remind you of their trust in you. Feel Honored to be called Sir, don't demand it. Nothing is worth having unless it's earned. Otherwise it really holds no value to you, you only want it because "it's expected". Earn the title, get the reward. Earn the trust, bring things to a new level, get her to a point she WANTS to call you Sir, because anything else is almost demeaning. Then, you've earned it. Then, you should be called Sir.

Just my opinion, try not to hate me too much. And again, yes, I am the new guy, so a little hate is expected.

 

[MsAmative]

I wanted to bring this up for discussion because I just had a recent sub bring this up to me. One of the rules I had given her was to address me as Sir (it was actually Master but I know how uncomfortable that makes some people). Her comment was that her saying it does not show any kind of authority to me.

It is not a protocol I request of any of my partners. If they use one, it is their wish and it then holds its own meaning. If they wish to use it every time they address me it is their choice.

I think you hit it on the head with that last statement. They can say it all you request, but that won't make it meaningful to them. Some find that kind of protocol very meaningful and some don't. Saying does not make it meaningful... the person saying it has to be the one to give it meaning. Sadly, you cannot just expect one to have that meaning right away or just because.

To me... it is something that is better to come with time, as respect and trust is earned.