The (Russian) Plot Thickens

[ChloeTzang]

BTW, Chloe, you suck at the fake-outrage thing.

Sorry Cyrano, I don't have much practice. I'll try and get better and I do hope you'll all encourage me - I'm learning from reading these threads. Flower Girl is such a good coach and there's others almost as good (sorry guys, Flower Girl IS good at it, probably coz her outrage is genuine - I only hope she doesn't put me on Ignore too, I'd be so mortified)

 

[CyranoJ]

Also, you should probably devote some of that misdirected energy to figuring out why people disagree with you and don't see this parallel reality that you appear to live in (like, yeah, I get that you're trying to troll and make like it's all about the lulz, but you're expending too much energy for that posture to stay plausible).

Maybe it's still early days to expect this of you or maybe you're one of those poor souls who'll simply never get there, for your sake I hope it's not the latter. Be well.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Is the news coverage getting to poor Donald?

Even if he's never prosecuted, EVERY interaction he has with Russia from now on will be scrutinized, and he knows it:

From notorious FAKE NEWS outlet the Associated Press:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...sia-deal/ar-AAnMlcd?li=AA5a8k&ocid=spartanntp

Facing a new wave of questions about his ties to Russia, President Donald Trump is telling advisers and allies that he may shelve — at least temporarily — his plan to pursue a deal with Moscow on the Islamic State group and other national security matters, according to administration officials and Western diplomats.

In conversations with diplomats and other officials, Trump and his aides have ascribed the new thinking to Moscow's recent provocations. But the reconsideration of a central tenet of the president's foreign policy underscores the growing political risks in forging closer relations with Russia, as long as the FBI investigates his campaign associates' connections to Moscow and congressional committees ramp up their probe of Russia's meddling in the 2016 election.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Also, you should probably devote some of that misdirected energy to figuring out why people disagree with you and don't see this parallel reality that you appear to live in (like, yeah, I get that you're trying to troll and make like it's all about the lulz, but you're expending too much energy for that posture to stay plausible).

Maybe it's still early days to expect this of you or maybe you're one of those poor souls who'll simply never get there, for your sake I hope it's not the latter. Be well.

LOL. Oh, I know why people disagree. And agree, because, well, yes they do. But yes, misdirected energy. I just got scolded for wasting my time on this nonsense by someone near and dear. I really need to focus on my writing and less at this coz really, I'm no good at trolling and my sense of humor gets a bit ridiculous. So I shall vanish for a while and hopefully Flower Girl's blood pressure will drop back to mere outrage at Trump levels.

It's been a blast and thanks for all the fish. See you back here whenever

 

[Maidboy]

Also, you should probably devote some of that misdirected energy to figuring out why people disagree with you...

Empathy is the ability to see things from another person's point of view. Lack of empathy is a defining feature of sociopaths.

 

[Rightguide]

Empathy is the ability to see things from another person's point of view. Lack of empathy is a defining feature of sociopaths.

Not only to see but to feel as well, little bit of a difference.

 

[Maidboy]

Not only to see but to feel as well, little bit of a difference.

I meant "see" in the general sense of the word. A blind person can say "I see where you're coming from" without being subjected to such semantic nitpicking. The point remains that lack of empathy is a defining trait of sociopaths.

 

[Eyereadtoo]

LOL. Oh, I know why people disagree. And agree, because, well, yes they do. But yes, misdirected energy. I just got scolded for wasting my time on this nonsense by someone near and dear. I really need to focus on my writing and less at this coz really, I'm no good at trolling and my sense of humor gets a bit ridiculous. So I shall vanish for a while and hopefully Flower Girl's blood pressure will drop back to mere outrage at Trump levels.

It's been a blast and thanks for all the fish. See you back here whenever

Hurry back! It's a lot more fun partnering up and popping all of their little, leftists balloons than going at it alone.

 

[phrodeau]

Hurry back! It's a lot more fun partnering up and popping all of their little, leftists balloons than going at it alone.

Link?

 

[sr71plt]

Hurry back! It's a lot more fun partnering up and popping all of their little, leftists balloons than going at it alone.

Welcome to complicity in the Russiagate coverup.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Get over yourself, crazy girl.

The only that that raises my BP is Trump's Nazi bullshit.

Attention seeking narcissists invite only bemused disgust.

So I shall vanish for a while and hopefully Flower Girl's blood pressure will drop back to mere outrage at Trump levels.

It's been a blast and thanks for all the fish. See you back here whenever

 

[ChloeTzang]

Hurry back! It's a lot more fun partnering up and popping all of their little, leftists balloons than going at it alone.

You convinced me. It's such fun doing things with friends.

Get over yourself, crazy girl.

Not a snowflake's chance in hell.

Sorry. I took a peek and it was too much. Narcissistic personality and all that. Magnetic attraction. I had to return.

I find this obsession with Trump fascinating. Really, he's just another President. Probably the last chance we have to straighten the US out because if he doesn't succeed (and I pray that he will), the country is going down the tubes. It's spent the last twenty years doing that with Clinton, that cuck Bush and that even more useless traitor Jarrett and her Obama puppet.

The only that that raises my BP is Trump's Nazi bullshit..... Attention seeking narcissists invite only bemused disgust.

And this is what bemuses and amuses me. Such strident dislike for someone who disagrees with your world view. In reality, Obama isn't the devil. I can understand people who might support him for whatever misguided reason. I can understand your view. Saw it often enough at College and it annoyed me then and it annoys me now. Big deal. I live with that. I moved to where live now to get as far away from that sort of bs as I can be. Succeeded too.

But I do find this incessant preoccupation with Trump rather disturbing. He's nowhere near a Nazi. Just by making that observation, you're confirming to me and to the others like me who voted for Trump that the opposition to Trump is just unhinged. Now last elections I could vote for the first time and I refused to vote for that cuck Romney. No way in hell. This time round I and millions of others had a candidate who represents us and who gives the big finger to you and all the other assholes who've been screwing this country into the ground for twenty years, and I include that asshole Bush in that list.

i voted for Trump. He won. I'll vote for him again next time and really, I don't give a rats ass about anything you unhinged anti-Trump agitators say or even, really, what Trump actually does as long as its vaguely in line with what he said. And vague is a pretty wide definition for me. I think it was Ishtat who, in another post said something about

It may not be 'middle of the road' but the views expressed by Chloe square pretty well with those of the people who voted for Trump. She has also said she perceives herself as a moderate and is not all that political. I suspect that Chloe's essential view is that she was fed up to the back teeth with the status quo - like some 60 million others, many of whom feel that mainstream parties have nothing to offer, serving only special/donor interests.

and that pretty much sums it up for me and for millions of others.

You'll note all the polls say a huge majority of Americans support things like deportations and building the fucking wall. We do. That's what we voted for. So protest all you like, agitate all you like, stir things up all you like. But as you do, and as you fascists physically attack elderly protesters just keep in mind that many of us who didn't vote last time turned out in our millions for a candidate who represents the real fucking America, not your left-wing insanity. We're flyover country and we're people who've lost their jobs because of your globalist elitism and we're factory workers whose jobs went to Mexico or China and we're people who've had their jobs outsourced or been replaced by fucking H1-B Visa workers or illegals.

WE are the people and you assholes are the puppets, unwitting or otherwise, of the globalists and other assholes who've been selling this country down the river since Clinton started. You really think that Sea Hag Clinton was a better choice than Trump? Maybe if you want us to turn into another third world hellhole like most of Mexico or Venezuela (a show case of socialism in action of there ever was one).

Well, we voted for Trump coz he said not just no, but "Fuck No" to all of that. And to your views. Now, you idiots lost the the election. You're going to lose out even more in the 2018 mid-terms. You're going to be wiped of the fucking electoral map for twenty years, that's how bad Obama's been for you.

And you're protesting and stirring shit and rioting and macing 70 year olds. Really, you idiots are like five year olds poking a hornets nest with a stick and saying to each other "ohhhhh isn;t this fun, look at them getting all upset.... let's do it again." And we all know what the end result of that little game is.

 

[Eyereadtoo]

Damn Chloe that's gonna leave a mark, way to go!

 

[ChloeTzang]

Damn Chloe that's gonna leave a mark, way to go!

Freshly caffeinated (damn, that Black Rifle Coffee is strong) and its Sunday and I felt like a Come to Jesus moment. Now I gotta get back to writing erotica. Sex, not politics

 

[CyranoJ]

Well, I'm glad we're past the "I'm just being a light-hearted troll" posturing and into the insane thousand-word screeds from Bizzarro World.

I don't give a rats ass about anything you unhinged anti-Trump agitators say or even, really, what Trump actually does as long as its vaguely in line with what he said. And vague is a pretty wide definition for me.

Yes, real good to see you have this deep, informed and super-principled concern about the country he's supposed to be rescuing from... whatever.

You'll note all the polls say a huge majority of Americans support things like deportations and building the fucking wall.

Actually majorities of people oppose the border wall and the maximally cruel and thuggish immigration policies are hugely divisive (not to mention that they suspend rights to due process and are likely headed for the same kind of court challenge that kneecapped the first attempt at a Muslim ban). Now, majorities of Republican voters might support both, but that's not actually the same thing as a "huge majority of Americans."

Trump after all lost the popular vote. See, you are actually not "the people." You have to share that honour with a moral majority in America that in fact opposes much of what Trump stands for (and which gerrymandering and vote suppression will only go so far toward suppressing, especially with your boy having done so much fine work to mobilize them), and that's why the anti-Trump protesters are so numerous and ubiquitous and frustrate you so much.

So maybe you should become actually curious about why they view totally-normal-and-unexceptional Trump the way they do instead of wallowing in wilfully-ignorant spite. Just a thought. If you can't be bothered, your opponents aren't going to give much of a fuck what you think, nor should they.

 

[CyranoJ]

Oh, if at any point you should become curious about what others see that you don't (I'm not holding my breath, but this might prove a useful resource for someone else): one of the advantages America has had in the early days of Trump's tenure is that there are a lot of people who have come there to escape authoritarian governments like the one he plainly wants to run, or who have studied those authoritarian governments and how to identify when you're at risk of descending into one.

You can see that expertise reflected in things like Amy Siskind's weekly list of abnormal things in the Trump era, over on Medium:

Week One

Week Two

Week Three

... and so on. She's now on Week Fifteen post-election and it's all genuinely worthwhile reading. The kinds of things she's flagging up are also things all those anti-Trump activists out there are noticing and reacting to.

(That said, for a different perspective: what Trump got right.)

 

[Carnal_Flower]

"Chloe" and her various alts are (trying) to do to this thread the same thing Dum dum is trying to do.

Sorry, won't work. Or should I say "Nyet."

Russiagate continues to unfold, bit by bit.

By the way, does the FBI (or any law agency) have the power to subpoena tax returns?

 

[ChloeTzang]

Damn Chloe that's gonna leave a mark, way to go!

Hey buddy, are you my alt? Just checkin' - didn't think you were but I wanted to see if I waz talking to myself.

"Chloe" and her various alts are (trying) to do to this thread the same thing Dum dum is trying to do.

Actually, to be a little more serious for a moment. Whose Dum dum if I may ask?

 

[CyranoJ]

By the way, does the FBI (or any law agency) have the power to subpoena tax returns?

The Congressional committees investigating can do so. Whether they will do so is another question.

Interestingly, Trump's demand that Congress investigate his "Obama wiretapping claims" is basically a demand that Congress investigate a FISA warrant that was issued to surveil Trump Tower under suspicion of espionage by an independent court during the Obama years. I wonder if whoever is pushing this strategy really grasps that it's not likely to lead to good places for Team Trump, given the revelations that have already dripped out (people like Bernie Sanders are doing their best to keep straight faces as they say "absolutely, by all means, let's investigate"), or if this is their best play at "getting ahead" of the scandal.

(I also wonder what it says about Bannon's state of mind. I mean, the guy has to know that the rag he used to run just routinely made stuff up. Wouldn't he be giving Trump the inside track on that process so that he isn't betting his admin's survival on a wing and a prayer and some bullshit in a Breitbart story? Or is he really down the rabbit hole of believing that Obama is Trump's Goldstein?)

 

[phrodeau]

Trump has now set a precedent, and no future Presidential candidates need to provide their tax returns. That opens the field on both sides.

It happened before, when Bill Clinton admitted to trying pot, and then a cocaine snorter got elected.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Interestingly, Trump's demand that Congress investigate his "Obama wiretapping claims" is basically a demand that Congress investigate a FISA warrant that was issued to surveil him under suspicion of espionage by an independent court during the Obama years. I wonder if whoever is pushing this strategy really grasps that it's not likely to lead to good places for Team Trump, given the revelations that have already dripped out (people like Bernie Sanders are doing their best to keep straight faces as they say "absolutely, by all means, let's investigate"), or if this is their best play at "getting ahead" of the scandal.

(I also wonder what it says about Bannon's state of mind. I mean, the guy has to know that the rag he used to run just routinely made stuff up. Wouldn't he be giving Trump the inside track on that process so that he isn't betting his admin's survival on a wing and a prayer and some bullshit in a Breitbart story?)

Nope. Breitbart is way more accurate than most of the Fake News Media. Congressional Investigation would be great. Jarrett's denial is anything but. Doesn't deny any of the facts we have in front of us. Seriously, this is going to be way better than Watergate. Meaningless denials from Jarrett so far. You can see why Breitbart has far more viewers than most of the fake media, they put out real news and analysis.

I like that last para from the Breitbart article: "It would then seem that the “Russia hacking” story was concocted not just to explain away an embarrassing election defeat, but to cover up the real scandal."

Next, that investigation of the Clinton Foundation.
Then there's still Benghazi to look into again, now that Obama's out of the way.

Oh, if at any point you should become curious about what others see that you don't (I'm not holding my breath, but this might prove a useful resource for someone else)....

No, don't. For god's sake don't hold your breath. I'd hate to have you on my conscience, such as it is and I do enjoy some of your stories.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Trump has now set a precedent, and no future Presidential candidates need to provide their tax returns. That opens the field on both sides.

It happened before, when Bill Clinton admitted to trying pot, and then a cocaine snorter got elected.

Tax returns are pretty meaningless anyhow. I mean, can you imagine how fake Killary's are? My partner's an Accountant. He does tax returns. It's fascinating to see the magic they work with numbers. It's better than magic really.

 

[Carnal_Flower]

It's part of their pattern and "strategy."

Sessions met secretly with Russians and lied about it? Well Chuck Schumer met with Russians!

Vladimir Putin is a murderer? Well we've killed people!

Trump lies all the time? Well all politicians fudge the truth!

For every Holocaust, there is a "Holodomar" in their shadow world.

You're calling for an independent investigation into Russian ties? Well we're calling for an independent investigation into Obama spying.

Notice how many times all the little right wingers do this on these Forums--counter everything with a false equivalence to try and "muddy the waters."*

What I think is Trump impulsively tweeted out this ridiculous charge on Friday after reading a Br*itb*rt story and that was not good. I don't think that was planned or part of their strategy, but just his own paranoia. The WH did not respond in any way until this morning (because they had to come up with a strategy to deal with his crazy). I was very curious if they were going to send a little brown shirt onto the Morning Shows, and they didn't. MIA.

What we got was Sean Sphincter this morning tweeting out the False Equivalency call for an independent investigation. Sad!

They chose to stand by Trump and go full bore on this. Not good. They're digging a deeper hole, for exactly the reasons you say.


*ETA: Trump won't release his tax returns? Oh well everyone fudges numbers, they're pretty meaningless anyhow. You think Killary didn't fake hers?

The Congressional committees investigating can do so. Whether they will do so is another question.

Interestingly, Trump's demand that Congress investigate his "Obama wiretapping claims" is basically a demand that Congress investigate a FISA warrant that was issued to surveil Trump Tower under suspicion of espionage by an independent court during the Obama years. I wonder if whoever is pushing this strategy really grasps that it's not likely to lead to good places for Team Trump, given the revelations that have already dripped out (people like Bernie Sanders are doing their best to keep straight faces as they say "absolutely, by all means, let's investigate"), or if this is their best play at "getting ahead" of the scandal.

(I also wonder what it says about Bannon's state of mind. I mean, the guy has to know that the rag he used to run just routinely made stuff up. Wouldn't he be giving Trump the inside track on that process so that he isn't betting his admin's survival on a wing and a prayer and some bullshit in a Breitbart story?)

 

[JackLuis]

Why we're so concerned?

IF Russia can make our most advanced weaponry stupid is that why Trump wants to make up with the Russians?

 

[Carnal_Flower]

Lol.

My opinion on this is that while Bannon (and Limbaugh and Hannity and all the rest of them) KNOW what they're doing is bullshit, Trump does not. He believes it. He religiously believes Br*itb*rt and Fox. If anything, Bannon was tearing his hair out that the Infant-in-Chief got a hold of his Twitter Machine unsupervised. But Dum Dum believes it. He believes he had the Biggest Inauguration Crowds in History, Period. He believes Obama is spying on him, because he believes the fake news, and doesn't understand why everyone else doesn't get it.

(I also wonder what it says about Bannon's state of mind. I mean, the guy has to know that the rag he used to run just routinely made stuff up. Wouldn't he be giving Trump the inside track on that process so that he isn't betting his admin's survival on a wing and a prayer and some bullshit in a Breitbart story? Or is he really down the rabbit hole of believing that Obama is Trump's Goldstein?)