The Queernesss Thread

[Allyourbase]

Oh... Oh thank you, Stella. Thank you for showing me this. It will get some use, in this house.

I second that. So gonna try that one out.

Random, tiny feel-good moment in my day:
I never thought I could write an e-mail to a friend with the phrase - 'this boy is a wreck for he is bleeding from his uterus'
Some people are such a joy to know

 

[the captians wench]

So I was taking a College Health Survey for required psych credit yesterday and came across some things that struck me in one way or another.

The first was the fact that for gender they gave the choice of "male, female, other" That kind of made me smirk a little.

But the one that stumped me a bit was the "sexual orientation"
the choices were "straight, heterosexual" or "gay, lesbian, homosexual, bisexual, etc."

I've always identified as "straight" but most of the people who know me best identify me as "bisexual". Hell even Jounar said that he'd be happy for me if I found a guy here, "or girl. I never can tell with you."

My reasoning for not identifying as bi is that I'm not really attracted to women, and I avoid relationships with them as much as humanly possible. But I have played with a couple of girls, however it was usually to fulfill some guy's fantasy, not because I wanted to fuck a chick. There is one exception to that, and I think she's the reason most stick me in the bi box.

I clicked straight because it's what I tend to say, and the survey was about how I identify myself, not how others identify me. But it does have me thinking about these labels and what makes some one bi, gay, straight, or what ever else we can think up.

 

[Etoile]

There's all kinds of complexity to these labels! Some people use the term "biamorous" or "biromantic" to specify that they want to have *relationships* with men and women, not just *sex*. It's not very common, though.

 

[Allyourbase]

So I was taking a College Health Survey for required psych credit yesterday and came across some things that struck me in one way or another.

The first was the fact that for gender they gave the choice of "male, female, other" That kind of made me smirk a little.

But the one that stumped me a bit was the "sexual orientation"
the choices were "straight, heterosexual" or "gay, lesbian, homosexual, bisexual, etc."

I've always identified as "straight" but most of the people who know me best identify me as "bisexual". Hell even Jounar said that he'd be happy for me if I found a guy here, "or girl. I never can tell with you."

My reasoning for not identifying as bi is that I'm not really attracted to women, and I avoid relationships with them as much as humanly possible. But I have played with a couple of girls, however it was usually to fulfill some guy's fantasy, not because I wanted to fuck a chick. There is one exception to that, and I think she's the reason most stick me in the bi box.

I clicked straight because it's what I tend to say, and the survey was about how I identify myself, not how others identify me. But it does have me thinking about these labels and what makes some one bi, gay, straight, or what ever else we can think up.

I have NEVER seen 'other' on a form yet! I wonder if I'd use the option if it was there. No idea what the form-makers their idea is of 'other', but I'm not sure that is the way I should think about that Also: could you tick more than one box? I would totally do that

Nowadays, sometimes I try to leave it open, (and then don't give a first name, just initials) but usually, you're forced to fill them in anyway. I don't really get why. It doesn't seem relevant most of the time.

The sexuality thing is interesting. Do I read your post right, in that there were one of two boxes you could pick, with one 'straight/hetero' and the other all other sexualities? Makes my toes curl up a bit... ('normal'/'etc.')

I understand what you mean with the trouble with identifying, the other way around. I have this body that is generally called 'female', and I date a man. That would make me 'hetero', since our bits differ.

But to me the difference in what is between our legs is not very relevant. It's more relevant what is inside their heads/hearts. The relatively rare moments I fall for feminine women, now that is what feels 'hetero', because they are so different! I tend to get the hots for people with gender identities or gender expressions that feel similar to mine. Since the 'sameness' is what matters, wouldn't it make more sense to call that 'homo'?

Heh. I could probably tick both those boxes. With conviction.

ETA: hell, I would tick all of those boxes... just... all of them.

 

[the captians wench]

yup, that's right, two options: "straight" and "everything else"

and you could only choose one, the same for the gender.

The form says that your answers are submitted anonymously, not that my answers would really bother me.

I also had a lot of laughs filling out the part that was obviously judging for depression. I'm the most optimistic/excitable/giggly/happy cutter they've ever tested I bet! And that doesn't even get into the self spanking (yes I've left deep bruises self spanking) and the tack board.

 

[the captians wench]

There's all kinds of complexity to these labels! Some people use the term "biamorous" or "biromantic" to specify that they want to have *relationships* with men and women, not just *sex*. It's not very common, though.

Well see that's the other part that usually gets me a few dirty looks from those who do identify as bi or lesbian.

I'm one of those chicks who doesn't care who's fucking me, but when it comes to returning favors, I'm not as likely to jump on some girly bones. Again, there are exceptions, and if you get me all subbed out I'll fuck/suck/lick just about anything with out a second thought. (really amazes me some times just how much I can turn off my inside voice when I'm all ramped up with sexual want/need) So to me, that's not bi, since I'm not eager to give what I get.

Except for this fascination with strap-ons, but that goes into my whole "my ego is a man" thing.

 

[BiBunny]

Well see that's the other part that usually gets me a few dirty looks from those who do identify as bi or lesbian.

I'm one of those chicks who doesn't care who's fucking me, but when it comes to returning favors, I'm not as likely to jump on some girly bones. Again, there are exceptions, and if you get me all subbed out I'll fuck/suck/lick just about anything with out a second thought. (really amazes me some times just how much I can turn off my inside voice when I'm all ramped up with sexual want/need) So to me, that's not bi, since I'm not eager to give what I get.

Except for this fascination with strap-ons, but that goes into my whole "my ego is a man" thing.

No dirty looks from me. I appreciate someone who's honest about it.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You might call yourself "heteroflexible." That's straight... with a momentary lapse here or there.

These days I call myself homoflexible.

 

[Allyourbase]

yup, that's right, two options: "straight" and "everything else"

and you could only choose one, the same for the gender.

The form says that your answers are submitted anonymously, not that my answers would really bother me.

I also had a lot of laughs filling out the part that was obviously judging for depression. I'm the most optimistic/excitable/giggly/happy cutter they've ever tested I bet! And that doesn't even get into the self spanking (yes I've left deep bruises self spanking) and the tack board.

Heh, your happy cutting might make the system go *error*.

I wonder, if measured like that, straight versus everything else, what would be the percentages?

 

[the captians wench]

No dirty looks from me. I appreciate someone who's honest about it.

That's me, totally honest.

It's more fun for both parties that way.

You might call yourself "heteroflexible." That's straight... with a momentary lapse here or there.

These days I call myself homoflexible.

I had a friend who would say "I'm not bi, I'm just friendly"

I liked that.

 

[the captians wench]

Heh, your happy cutting might make the system go *error*.

I wonder, if measured like that, straight versus everything else, what would be the percentages?

I'm sure I threw off the curve many, many times.

And I suppose that would really depend on how honest people are with themselves. Like I said, I picked "straight" because *I* felt it fit better than the other, but those who know me best might say I'm lying to myself. *shrug* It's all perception.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's me, totally honest.

It's more fun for both parties that way.



I had a friend who would say "I'm not bi, I'm just friendly"

I liked that.

heh.

I know a woman who says she's a lesbian in her heart. She wants all the acceptance and the cool points of a minority group without actually belonging to it, that's what that means.

I tell her she needs to be a lesbian in my pussy, that will get her some points.

 

[the captians wench]

heh.

I know a woman who says she's a lesbian in her heart. She wants all the acceptance and the cool points of a minority group without actually belonging to it, that's what that means.

I tell her she needs to be a lesbian in my pussy, that will get her some points.

A few drinks, a red ass, and a plug and I'm pretty much there.

Sober and not off the charts randy, meh.

Maybe I'm drunkensexflexible?

Oh, wait, it works with out the drinks too, if I've been teased and denied enough.

Gotta admit, I do love getting Mr. rock hard and him going in the other room to fuck Mrs. And I love cleaning him up...Selectiveheteroflexible?

 

[Stella_Omega]

So I might have said, but I finally found resources for transition. My first T shot happens at the Ides of June, which is a nice point for beginning things. there's a lot to say about it-- so much I hardly know where to start!

Please understand this;
I do NOT plan to become a man. I intend to be a masculine woman, I intend to take just enough T to enhance my butch nature.

When I explained this to my doctor, I asked him-- was that strange to him, did he understand what I was talking about? And he said that he has five or six other patients who want exactly the same thing.

HOpefully, my bolded sentence is understandable to my friends here, because my beloved aged mother-- she doesn't understand this little nuance. And she's so very much onboard!

And I find myself deeply resenting it. Fact is, my mother does not like women, as shes told me so many times-- and she DOES like men, and she's already showing me how much more she respects men than women.

"You make such a nice man!" she tells me. I can say things to her that she will laugh at-- when I was her daughter, she would flash into anger at my impertinence. Being able to speak a little bit more freely around her has made me more comfortable about speaking, and therefore she feels like I like her more, and it's all because I am now a man not a woman. At least, in her eyes.

My sister says; "Well, you make more sense as a man!"

and yeah, I should be happy about that. But... what it means is that I struggled for more than FIFTY YEARS to be... not a very good female. Not smiling enough, , too focused on fixing what was wrong when someone was troubled -- and not sympathetic enough, not nurturing enough. But those same standards make me okay as a male. As a male I might even be unusually communicative, nurturing, etc.

I've always known that women and men are held to different standards and judged by how well we fit into those molds-- but I'm really feeling it in my gut these days.

I promised my doctor that I would get some sort of therapy going. I promised because the terms of this system say I need at least two months before I start T, and he's bending the rules for me by trusting me to do it in tandem. I was expecting that I would need it-- but suddenly I'm seeing why, exactly, someone like me would need something so very specific.

 

[Allyourbase]

So I might have said, but I finally found resources for transition. My first T shot happens at the Ides of June, which is a nice point for beginning things. there's a lot to say about it-- so much I hardly know where to start!

Please understand this;
I do NOT plan to become a man. I intend to be a masculine woman, I intend to take just enough T to enhance my butch nature.

When I explained this to my doctor, I asked him-- was that strange to him, did he understand what I was talking about? And he said that he has five or six other patients who want exactly the same thing.

HOpefully, my bolded sentence is understandable to my friends here, because my beloved aged mother-- she doesn't understand this little nuance. And she's so very much onboard!

And I find myself deeply resenting it. Fact is, my mother does not like women, as shes told me so many times-- and she DOES like men, and she's already showing me how much more she respects men than women.

"You make such a nice man!" she tells me. I can say things to her that she will laugh at-- when I was her daughter, she would flash into anger at my impertinence. Being able to speak a little bit more freely around her has made me more comfortable about speaking, and therefore she feels like I like her more, and it's all because I am now a man not a woman. At least, in her eyes.

My sister says; "Well, you make more sense as a man!"

and yeah, I should be happy about that. But... what it means is that I struggled for more than FIFTY YEARS to be... not a very good female. Not smiling enough, , too focused on fixing what was wrong when someone was troubled -- and not sympathetic enough, not nurturing enough. But those same standards make me okay as a male. As a male I might even be unusually communicative, nurturing, etc.

I've always known that women and men are held to different standards and judged by how well we fit into those molds-- but I'm really feeling it in my gut these days.

I promised my doctor that I would get some sort of therapy going. I promised because the terms of this system say I need at least two months before I start T, and he's bending the rules for me by trusting me to do it in tandem. I was expecting that I would need it-- but suddenly I'm seeing why, exactly, someone like me would need something so very specific.

Wow! Congratulations!

Pleasantly surprised your doctor is okay with what you want. Here, that's not very common. I have a trans male friend who actually just wanted top surgery, but wasn't allowed to do that - he had to start T first. I guess in the Netherlands genderqueer identities don't fit in the protocols yet. Good to hear you can do it your way.

Your mother is something else... Sounds like it's not easy being female around her. I'm now wondering how that is for your sister?

Wishing you luck in finding a good therapist. Someone who knows what they're doing can be priceless.

 

[Netzach]

So I might have said, but I finally found resources for transition. My first T shot happens at the Ides of June, which is a nice point for beginning things. there's a lot to say about it-- so much I hardly know where to start!

Please understand this;
I do NOT plan to become a man. I intend to be a masculine woman, I intend to take just enough T to enhance my butch nature.

When I explained this to my doctor, I asked him-- was that strange to him, did he understand what I was talking about? And he said that he has five or six other patients who want exactly the same thing.

HOpefully, my bolded sentence is understandable to my friends here, because my beloved aged mother-- she doesn't understand this little nuance. And she's so very much onboard!

And I find myself deeply resenting it. Fact is, my mother does not like women, as shes told me so many times-- and she DOES like men, and she's already showing me how much more she respects men than women.

"You make such a nice man!" she tells me. I can say things to her that she will laugh at-- when I was her daughter, she would flash into anger at my impertinence. Being able to speak a little bit more freely around her has made me more comfortable about speaking, and therefore she feels like I like her more, and it's all because I am now a man not a woman. At least, in her eyes.

My sister says; "Well, you make more sense as a man!"

and yeah, I should be happy about that. But... what it means is that I struggled for more than FIFTY YEARS to be... not a very good female. Not smiling enough, , too focused on fixing what was wrong when someone was troubled -- and not sympathetic enough, not nurturing enough. But those same standards make me okay as a male. As a male I might even be unusually communicative, nurturing, etc.

I've always known that women and men are held to different standards and judged by how well we fit into those molds-- but I'm really feeling it in my gut these days.

I promised my doctor that I would get some sort of therapy going. I promised because the terms of this system say I need at least two months before I start T, and he's bending the rules for me by trusting me to do it in tandem. I was expecting that I would need it-- but suddenly I'm seeing why, exactly, someone like me would need something so very specific.

Congrats on this, and doubly so on finding a genderqueer compatible MD.

It's crazy how much I relate to this, other than being into my body as-is I can completely relate to this identity as "crap ass as a woman" - I just don't feel like I show up in "man" either, or "butch" even - though playful exploration into those is healthy and neat for me, they're not intrinsic. But that "woman fail" - totally.

I'm ok as "crap at being a woman." I'm irate about every time I got called out as "lazy" on the things I don't do, ignoring the tons of things I do which men would be validated for instead, but now it's become a kind of indignity whereas before it was internalized and so filled with feeling inadequate. Now I'm fine being inadequate at something I never picked in the first place.

 

[IrisAlthea]

Congrats on this, and doubly so on finding a genderqueer compatible MD.

It's crazy how much I relate to this, other than being into my body as-is I can completely relate to this identity as "crap ass as a woman" - I just don't feel like I show up in "man" either, or "butch" even - though playful exploration into those is healthy and neat for me, they're not intrinsic. But that "woman fail" - totally.

I'm ok as "crap at being a woman." I'm irate about every time I got called out as "lazy" on the things I don't do, ignoring the tons of things I do which men would be validated for instead, but now it's become a kind of indignity whereas before it was internalized and so filled with feeling inadequate. Now I'm fine being inadequate at something I never picked in the first place.

This is something I can really relate to. I still have work to do when it comes to being ok with it, but it's getting better.

 

[IrisAlthea]

So I might have said, but I finally found resources for transition. My first T shot happens at the Ides of June, which is a nice point for beginning things. there's a lot to say about it-- so much I hardly know where to start!

Please understand this;
I do NOT plan to become a man. I intend to be a masculine woman, I intend to take just enough T to enhance my butch nature.

When I explained this to my doctor, I asked him-- was that strange to him, did he understand what I was talking about? And he said that he has five or six other patients who want exactly the same thing.

HOpefully, my bolded sentence is understandable to my friends here, because my beloved aged mother-- she doesn't understand this little nuance. And she's so very much onboard!

And I find myself deeply resenting it. Fact is, my mother does not like women, as shes told me so many times-- and she DOES like men, and she's already showing me how much more she respects men than women.

"You make such a nice man!" she tells me. I can say things to her that she will laugh at-- when I was her daughter, she would flash into anger at my impertinence. Being able to speak a little bit more freely around her has made me more comfortable about speaking, and therefore she feels like I like her more, and it's all because I am now a man not a woman. At least, in her eyes.

My sister says; "Well, you make more sense as a man!"

and yeah, I should be happy about that. But... what it means is that I struggled for more than FIFTY YEARS to be... not a very good female. Not smiling enough, , too focused on fixing what was wrong when someone was troubled -- and not sympathetic enough, not nurturing enough. But those same standards make me okay as a male. As a male I might even be unusually communicative, nurturing, etc.

I've always known that women and men are held to different standards and judged by how well we fit into those molds-- but I'm really feeling it in my gut these days.

I promised my doctor that I would get some sort of therapy going. I promised because the terms of this system say I need at least two months before I start T, and he's bending the rules for me by trusting me to do it in tandem. I was expecting that I would need it-- but suddenly I'm seeing why, exactly, someone like me would need something so very specific.

Congratulations!

 

[midwestyankee]

@Stella, I don't feel the need to quote your recent long post again, but this is a direct response to it. I'm fascinated by the differences you're experiencing in your mother's attitude toward you as your manner changes. I suppose the way that others respond to gender has a much wider effect on our lives than we can easily see. But in reflecting after reading your post, I could see something similar in how my mother-in-law used to interact with me. It was never a very close relationship and yet she often deferred to me when decisions were needed and I was the oldest male in the room. Drove my wife and her sister crazy, as often the decisions should rightly have been their responsibility. Clearly it was about how she reacted to gender, though.

Good luck with this move, my friend.

 

[sheablue]

Stella -- I'm really happy for you. And I feel badly that you have felt that you were "failing" as a woman. I've known plenty of "women" who have failed miserably as friends, as decent people ...

You are Stella Omega. You are a bright star in the night sky. Gender should be irrelevant. I'm glad you are on a path to just BE. Because, though I don't know you that well, to me, you being you is a pretty fucking great thing.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you, everyone for the kind thoughts, and thank you Netzach for adding to the voices of experience... I started a similar convo on fetlife, and wow trans people going both ways have a lot to say on the subject

Yesterday was stressful in a whole different way. I'm trying to find therapy on a sliding scale... Me and half the city! LGBT services of Hollywood is packed. At the very least, I HAVE learned to make appointments even though the appt is like three weeks after my first shot-- and try elsewhere at the same time. But I had to lock myself into a bathroom and cry for a while.

And then I went to Planned Parenthood to get my ladyparts checked out, and those people are awesome from top to bottom.

 

[Allyourbase]

Thank you, everyone for the kind thoughts, and thank you Netzach for adding to the voices of experience... I started a similar convo on fetlife, and wow trans people going both ways have a lot to say on the subject

Yesterday was stressful in a whole different way. I'm trying to find therapy on a sliding scale... Me and half the city! LGBT services of Hollywood is packed. At the very least, I HAVE learned to make appointments even though the appt is like three weeks after my first shot-- and try elsewhere at the same time. But I had to lock myself into a bathroom and cry for a while.

And then I went to Planned Parenthood to get my ladyparts checked out, and those people are awesome from top to bottom.

Oh, yeah, waiting periods for therapy... I almost forgot about those. What's the wait? Here it could be months, depending on the practice and your issue.

*checks out the fetlife convo*

The whole failing at being female thing is interesting. I do see now that I tend to take various kinds of criticism - for example about how I have a hard time accepting help, or whatever - as 'gendered' criticism, whereas others who hear the same thing maybe wouldn't see gender in there at all. I guess when your gender is always a source of friction, it colors your perception. Well, it does mine, at least.

 

[KoPilot]

Hoh damn, how did I miss this entire thread? I guess this is what I get for never checking out the cafe. Now to get reading!

BUT-- Stella, I would like to offer a big HUZZAH for the T win. Very excited for you, and for what these small changes in the medical community's conception of nonbinary and queer gender mean for so many other people (and possibly myself in the future).

 

[KoPilot]

WELL.

Seems like I'm just a big pile of derp because boy did I post here a while back apparently! :V

 

[KoPilot]

I'm somewhat along the lines of Catalina... I've described myself in years past as being a gay man in a woman's body, but I'm not quite sure. My gender is and has always been extremely fluid; growing up I was referred to by both pronouns quite a lot, and being thought of in terms of masculine pronouns was actually a source of pride for me. However, my orientation is pretty rock solid: I'm attracted to manly, dominant men, and that's that. There has not been a single occasion where I've fantasized about a woman, or anyone marginally feminine. But me? I'm cool with being whatever, so long as I get to be small and cutesy. I have thought about what it would be like to have a penis, though.

If anyone's familiar with the series of chan imageboard websites, I visit one on occasion. It's called Gurochan, and there's a thread there that I'd started following a little bit and it made me think: http://gurochan.net/f/res/3810.html The main focus is "cuntboys", or pre-op trans men of the likes of Buck Angel. When I saw them I couldn't help but go "Hey! Those boys look good! I wouldn't mind being able to switch between this and that sometimes." Not because of the sex, but the idea of being able to change based on my mood sounds appealing to me. Sometimes I do wish that I could just go out as a slick-lookin' drag king, but... the androgynous and the boy-dressed-as-a-girl look (and feel) is what I'm used to, and it's the aesthetic I like most these days.

It's interesting to read this and then compare it to how I feel now.

Ace, aro (-ish), agendered, small. That about sums it up, really. I think the fluidity I was sensing before is just the fact that my expression changes according to my mood and that all clothing ultimately feels like drag. I've thought of myself as a blob before, been called a robot... and those things would be offensive to most other people, but they're validating to me. ;P

I wrote about how that all intersects with my sex and fetish stuff here: http://fistfelt.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/do-these-pants-make-my-identity-look-big/

Oh, and the biggest difference between now and 2011 when I posted that? I've got a binder now. ;3