The Queernesss Thread

[Bandit58]

I once joined LesbianMatchmaker.com.au in an attempt to find a female play partner. I stated the truth - that I was a bisexual woman with limited experience who had a supportive male partner who WOULD NOT be involved in any sexual interactions.

My profile was rejected. Apparently I wasn't allowed to mention anything about having a male partner Would they rather I had hidden that fact until I'd made contact with someone (and I have had women on other sites do this, wanting to bring in their bf/hubby when I had stated right off the bat that I wanted NO MALE involvement).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow a whole bunch of great comments. I keep reading them and clicking away because I feel like I can say" Yeah I agree" and almost nothing else.

Hee!

Bandit, yeah. Lesbian women tend to have a different set of norms amongst themselves than you might expect. The sexual liasons very often turn into relationships, and there's an expectation of monogamy for that period. (people deride serial monogamy, but it's perfectly valid-- not to mention a fact that you have to take into consideration no matter what you think about it.

They (I'm not lesbian in that way myself) often feel victimized by bi women who show up for some fun, steal someone's heart and then wander off to their husbands again... there's a certain expectation of monogamy. So lesbian dating services often do police that way.

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's where the queerness lies, to me.

And it's why the Capital-S Straightness of those presenters I mentioned makes my skin crawl, because it is so unexamined--so lazy--and that bothers me enough on its own even without them co-opting a word that to me symbolizes challenge and transformation.

That's it! an examined sexual identity-- most likely to be a queer sexual identity. To be fair, I doubt that most heteronormative BDSM folk think of themselves as "queer," in part because to them it means gay...

just me poking peope. I'll try to stop.

The blog you posted, Stella, makes me *really* happy I'm not in "The Scene." It's so much easier to ignore the asshats when you're not stuck in a room with them.

OH yeah. I admit that when I go to play parties around here I feel like shying away from the hets I haven't met. When some guy hands you his calling card and he's calling himself "The Trainer..."

Oookay.

 

[BiBunny]

They (I'm not lesbian in that way myself) often feel victimized by bi women who show up for some fun, steal someone's heart and then wander off to their husbands again... there's a certain expectation of monogamy. So lesbian dating services often do police that way.

It ain't just monogamous lesbians that happens to. I'm living, breathing proof.

Never again.

 

[intothewoods]

I rarely take part in or offer any response to purely BDSM discussions here, to be honest. Gay, het, sub male, sub female, etc. Mostly because I don't feel I have anything worthwhile to add because my experience is limited and I am not part of the 'lifestyle'.

In that way, I guess I exclude everyone?

I do love an unabashed, outspoken opinion, though, whether I agree with it or not. You're always good for that, Stella.

Well, I for one encourage you to weigh in more often. The 'lifestyle' means different things to different people. People here have all sorts of different involvements with BDSM. I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's here.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, I for one encourage you to weigh in more often. The 'lifestyle' means different things to different people. People here have all sorts of different involvements with BDSM. I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's here.

I agree. Especially since this space cannot be controlled by one or another group. And I'm not sure what a "purely BDSM" convo is anyway...

 

[Keroin]

Well, I for one encourage you to weigh in more often. The 'lifestyle' means different things to different people. People here have all sorts of different involvements with BDSM. I don't think your opinion is less valid than anyone else's here.

I agree. Especially since this space cannot be controlled by one or another group. And I'm not sure what a "purely BDSM" convo is anyway...

Well shucks...

I said "mostly", there are other reasons I don't chime in - or even read a lot of threads. Since I am the dreaded, married, monogamous, pyl, het woman (), and since I don't do the public play/munch thing, I don't see myself ever doing much of the elaborate stuff many of the "true" BDSM'ers are into. This means I don't need a heck of a lot of education. Nor is my relationship with L structured to any great degree. We are what we are and the BDSM aspect of our non-sexual interactions comes and goes and shifts like the tides, (which suits me perfectly).

I've found that my comments, (which always come from a genuine, non-aggressive, place), have a tendency to offend those who take their BDSM very seriously. So, more and more often, I say nothing. I love a good discussion, but I think I might be a bit too...hard-assed (?) for many folks.

(Also, I've been pretty busy lately).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Aaahhh you're boring... except I've seen the pictures.

 

[Bandit58]

Keroin you're not on your own Although I'm not hetero , Sir's and my relationship sounds a lot like yours and L's. I'm naturally submissive anyway so things just seem to fall into place with us

 

[Stella_Omega]

The stories about Domism are kind of hitting me hard at the moment. I've agreed to do a demo next month... bottoming-- sort of-- in a "how to give a woman an orgasm" demo. I got tapped because I'm not body shy and I've let this crowd see my pussy before-- but you know what? letting people see my orgasms is creating some goofy kind of interference in my mind.

I WILL, my Lady assures me, be in complete control of this session, the top is completely service oriented. But call it performance anxiety. Hee!

More than that-- there seem to be some political ramifications in the community,. This group is comprised of women doms, female and male subs, and switches of both sexes, and no male doms are ever welcome.

My Lady has said some things... makes me wonder if I will ever be welcome in the bigger community around here if I am perceived to be affiliated with the Ladies in particular.

But whatever the fuck. Yanno what I'm saying. One thing about the Ladies-- if I wish to be a boy, a boy is what I will be to them. No homophobia.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I can certainly understand some of that, Keroin. Your relationship, barring the "married" part, sound a great deal like mine own, although our nonsexual roles are probably even more tide-shifty

I do really like this thread, btw haven't had much cause for comment, but it's very interesting to read!

 

[rida]

Gender: genetically female, happy with my female body, a gender neutral personality and a somewhat masculine way of looking at sex. Curiously enough I never identified 100% as a girl or as a boy while growing up and as a kid I would get mistaken for a boy a lot, and it did not bother me. I started enjoying dressing up girly around my late teens, and I bet if I was a male, I would be a cross-dresser. LOL

Orientation: when I started to think about what side of the homo/het spectrum I fall into, I realized that my being hetero was not a choice or preference, rather simply the way things have worked out so far. So I flagged myself as hetero-flexible, since I could not claim the label bi, without any experience.
A few experiences later, physically, I love both. Emotionally, I tend to find myself more attracted to a male personality. Jokingly I told one of my guys (a totally straight man) that I'm actually a "gay guy in a female body" ... it made him squirm a little ...

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Jokingly I told one of my guys (a totally straight man) that I'm actually a "gay guy in a female body" ... it made him squirm a little ...

Lol ^_^

 

[KoPilot]

Oh man. Looking forward to seeing where this thread goes~ c:

I might have something to contribute, but that'll have to be later when I can sit and gather links and figure out what I want to say.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well shucks...

I said "mostly", there are other reasons I don't chime in - or even read a lot of threads. Since I am the dreaded, married, monogamous, pyl, het woman (), and since I don't do the public play/munch thing, I don't see myself ever doing much of the elaborate stuff many of the "true" BDSM'ers are into.

LOL, you are not alone. We are also monogamous, married, and don't go to munches or participate in public play. As to some taking offence....we all have our bad days, and it is sometimes difficult to read a person's tome online, so I wouldn't let it stop you from taking your place in coversations and discussions here.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Emotionally, I tend to find myself more attracted to a male personality. Jokingly I told one of my guys (a totally straight man) that I'm actually a "gay guy in a female body" ... it made him squirm a little ...

It is nice to know I am not alone in feeling I am a gay man in a female body. Tried to explain it to someone once and they said, 'oh you mean when you think about x you wish he were straight'. I tried to explain that was not it, that I would be much happier if I were a gay male in a relationship with x, that if he were straight and interested in me as a woman I would not be interested. Still did not compute so I tend to not talk about it as much these days.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

It is nice to know I am not alone in feeling I am a gay man in a female body. Tried to explain it to someone once and they said, 'oh you mean when you think about x you wish he were straight'. I tried to explain that was not it, that I would be much happier if I were a gay male in a relationship with x, that if he were straight and interested in me as a woman I would not be interested. Still did not compute so I tend to not talk about it as much these days.

Catalina

I've had that feeling quite a few times as well.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oookay... so Rida, Catalina, BiBunny and myself identify in this gender-queer way.

I would have tried for GRS as a teen, if I had any inkling it might have been possible female-to-male. Honestly I doubt it would have made me any happier than living in a female body has done-- I'd have been fighting against both society's perceptions and my body's limitations regardless. Now however--I'm actually old enough to take testosterone without much visible outward change. When I realised that about a two years ago i was furious and grieving. Now I think... it might be a real plus. because honestly, I don't like most men very much. especially not the ones that buy guitars without telling anyone...

Do we want to talk about the problems a female-bodied man encounter if he identifies as gay? Because you can probably imagine that there isn't exactly widespread support and tolerance for such a notion.

 

[Kajira Callista]

I am female and identify as a lot of different things but all are female to me.
My sexual preference has no relationship to gender at all but my experience with women is limited to threesomes and Dominant woman so I call myself heteroflexable.
I love to look at good looking people and really hot ones make me squrim a bit but my attraction is to dominance. Male or female, that is the on button for me.
I know...simple and boring *shrug*

 

[dexwebster]

My gender is. . .complicated. I don't particularly feel like I'm trapped in a body I shouldn't be in--partly, I think, because being attracted to multiple genders and androgyny wouldn't change with my gender changing, so it's always seemed somewhat irrelevant. I just feel like the presentation doesn't match the perception other people have of me, if that makes sense.

Most days it feels like my gender is a secret. I am a man's size and a woman's curves and most days I feel somewhere in between. Because even when I'm in my boy pants and boy shirts and boy shoes, I'm still built like a curvy linebacker. I still ping most people as female, as femme, because my tits get to the door before I do and my hips make bucket seats an annoyance instead of a luxury and frankly it's just too much damn work to try to hide them all in the hope that someone, some day on the street will call me sir*. I'm a hardcore introvert, shy, and uncomfortable with people, so I'm usually happier being unnoticed than any possibility of being identified as anything but femme, on those days when it would strike my fancy to be so. My easily-identifiable femaleness feels like camoflage instead of a lie.

My thing is mostly not that I don't want to be a woman, it's that I want to be a different kind of woman.


*Though interestingly I have had a few children do it instinctively, then apologize, then be confused when I tell them I don't mind and actually prefer it)

 

[kittystryker]

Hello! I've popped in from my blog androaperture.wordpress.com as I saw some hits coming from here.

I'm a queer femme in a relationship with a queer man. Ii identify as queer because I don't believe in a gender binary and have issues with the word "bisexual", which suggests two genders. I love people of all genders- it's about them, not their bits.

I also think that queerness often comes with political awareness, and often political activism. For example, I'm aware that I have straight privilege because my partner is and flags as a cisgendered man. Rather than ignore, deny, or try to overcompensate for that, I make sure I'm checking my privilege when among other queers. Anyone else have that experience? It might be a queer SF/London thing but I doubt it!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Hello! I've popped in from my blog androaperture.wordpress.com as I saw some hits coming from here.

I'm a queer femme in a relationship with a queer man. Ii identify as queer because I don't believe in a gender binary and have issues with the word "bisexual", which suggests two genders. I love people of all genders- it's about them, not their bits.

I also think that queerness often comes with political awareness, and often political activism. For example, I'm aware that I have straight privilege because my partner is and flags as a cisgendered man. Rather than ignore, deny, or try to overcompensate for that, I make sure I'm checking my privilege when among other queers. Anyone else have that experience? It might be a queer SF/London thing but I doubt it!

Oooh, can I fangirl at you some? or yanno.. fanboi... Love, love!

For me too, queerness and activism are kinda hard to seperate. I started out trying to find a quick and easy label for myself. I liked queer because it seemed so non-specific. And sure enough, there are so many flavors of queer-- and they but up against each other ans stp on each other's toes sometimes.

it seems to me.... so many flavors of queerness have one aroma in common which is a sense of isolation. And yeah, we all want a little privilege. And if we are willing to offer privilege to each other-- the one we can offer most readily is the privilege of self identification. Amongst ourselves, at least, and fight for that in the hegemony.

or something.

My thing is mostly not that I don't want to be a woman, it's that I want to be a different kind of woman.

Ah damn that's good. Wow.

I think I would not want to be a man unless I could be a different kind of man.

 

[the captians wench]

I've always had more guy friends than gal pals. I just don't understand women. And I don't understand people my age. We just have different worries. I've had a very high sex drive all my adult life, and I've never understood this notion of why sex has to mean something more than sex. Food doesn't mean more than lunch. It can, but it doesn't have to.

I don't care what gender fucks me, and I have enjoyed playing with a pair of boobs that weren't my own, but I have no desire to have a relationship with a woman. Hell I'm not even interested in playing with a woman with out a man in the room, and I don't really enjoy being the giver of most activities.

On the other hand, I've always expected, desired, and wanted to be treated as dainty and feminine as possible. I like being treated like I"m breakable. I like feeling small, kept.

 

[MissTCShore]

Some people think of the spectrum of sexual orientation as a line with being completely straight at one end and completely homosexual at the other end, and they feel that everyone falls somewhere on that line. I think this is a false view. To me, this view seems to mathematical for people...

I don't think most people fall in one place on a line in a spectrum, but rather they move about. And I think there are points that aren't on the line. I think that most people (who think at all about their sexuality) think about things like having sex with someone of the same gender, what it's like to be the other gender, as well as what would be considered deviant or kinky sex acts. Not everyone is comfortable acting on these thoughts are desires, but I think, in many cases, they are there.

Take me for example: I'm certainly not homosexual, and I don't necessarily consider myself bisexual. (Those are just labels.) I'm very attracted to men. I love men and I love being in a relationship with a man.

Currently, however, I'm between boyfriends and I'm in a sexual relationship with another woman. For me, this relationship brings in elements of both friendship and sex, but not a "loving" kind of relationship that I experience with a man. The feelings are different.

Now, I suppose, strictly speaking, I am bisexual, but I don't think of myself in those terms.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I've had a very high sex drive all my adult life, and I've never understood this notion of why sex has to mean something more than sex. Food doesn't mean more than lunch. It can, but it doesn't have to.

See? That's what I'm talking about!
And what gets to me is this constant insistance that submission is All That. That a totally giving oneself over to a spanking isn't enough that there has to be submission...

On the other hand, I've always expected, desired, and wanted to be treated as dainty and feminine as possible. I like being treated like I"m breakable. I like feeling small, kept.

I would love to think that's a desire that you don't associate with Because You're A Girl.

I would be a very happy camper if the desire to be a little was something that was perceived as a separate thing. if boys and girls alike could admit to this very queer desire without calling it "feminine" or attaching it in any way to the status of women in general. if women weren't already dumped into the Dainty Fairy box... perhaps I would enjoy that game myself.

In my life I have fought and fought and fought against being treated like something adorable and breakable-- quite literally, when it was "don't use that band saw Stella, you might hurt yourself. Let Bobby cut your shape for you." (Bobby slipped and mis-cut the shape, BTW, but we already knew not to say so because we mustn't hurt the budding male ego, bless his heart. Still I would have preferred to fuck it up my self.)