The pros and cons of the voting system.

[kiwiwolf]

Over a period of 2 hours on friday night my story "Educating the Capo", went from number one in the Novels and Novellas Top List and on the site top list, to number 26 on the novels and novellas list and way out of sight on the site list.

Personally this doesn't worry me too much because I know I wrote a decent story. I was surprised to find it at number one, even though I am proud of what I submitted. The feedback I have received has, with one exception, been all positive and constructive. That is good enough for me.

What irks me is the fact that the voting system is a tool used by quite a few to gauge whether or not a story is worth reading. Like it or not folks that is the way it runs for a lot of our readers. So seeing your story disappear prematurely into oblivion is like watching people walking away from a movie as the opening credits roll. Not very encouraging.

Am I saying that this was deliberate and malicious? Yep I sure am. Am I pissed off? A little bit.

I am more disappointed. Without fail I always vote on any and every story I read. Even if it is in competition with one of mine I have never voted dishonetly. If the story is worth a 5... it gets a 5. If it overtakes my story because of my vote then it desrved it because of good writing by the author. A lot of the stories above me on the toplists now deserve to be there. A lot of them are fantastic stories . Some are crap.

I used to think that the top lists were a good indicator of a stories quality. Now I question that. It has also left me wondering wether or not I DO have a band of voting sycophants. I really hope I don't. If I do I am wasting my time even powering up my 'puter.

For me the brief time at number one was a massive ego stroke. I enjoyed it. It is over now... as is this rant.

So... how was your weekend?

 

[wanton wonton]

i'm not a writer but i agree that the voting system is faulty. from reading the stories and poems, i observe that some rated high are not as well-written as others that rated much lower.

congrats anyway on being top for a while. i'll go read your story now.

my weekend is going good.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

People vote 5's for their friends' stories, and 1's for the stories of people they don't like, OR for the stories of their rivals. If your story threatens to kick their own off the Top Ten, they'll rally up all their friends and 1 you until you're on a more safe place.

Childish, really.

 

[SlaveMasterUK]

I noticed my story got a whole load of good votes, then mysteriously got two bad ones right next to each other... As yet I haven't had any negative feedback. Just a few 'wow good story' type things, which was nice.

But I get the feeling from this and other posts that feedback is the best way to judge how good your story is.

I will admit I tend to avoid clicking on a story that has a low rating. Without meaning to sound superior, I have clicked on some stories in the past and found within two paragraphs my brow wrinkling and my brain hurting so much I just have to click the BACK button.

ax

 

[karmadog]

If anything, voting is skewed high.

If you think about it, if a story sucks, you back click so low votes are rare. Still, that also means that a '1' vote is almost certainly malicious because who would bother reading even to the bottom of one page? Not me.

 

[jfinn]

If anything, voting is skewed high.

If you think about it, if a story sucks, you back click so low votes are rare. Still, that also means that a '1' vote is almost certainly malicious because who would bother reading even to the bottom of one page? Not me.

Excellent point and one I hadn't really thought of before. I doubt I've ever given a story a one for exactly that reason.

I try not to let the votes bother me though. In fact, I make myself not look at my scores right away and wait a couple of weeks instead so that I don't have to look at the ups and downs. That way all I see is what's there after the dust settles. I've found it's a lot healthier for my peace of mind, and my blood pressure.

Jayne

 

[Dirt Man]

Welcome to the club...

It is easy to sabotage a story by giving it 3 threes, a couple of 2's, as Laurel doesn't delete those, just the 1's. For instance if you have 10 votes averaging 4.5 that means half the people voted 4, and the other half voted 5. Now dump a 3 into the mix, and you get an average of 4.36 which takes you off the H list right away. And that means if after 30 votes averaging out at 4.5 you get three 3's in a row you still go back to a 4.36 average, and again you are off of the H list. Now add a couple of friends who give it a 2 vote, and at 35 votes in you have a 4.22 average that cannot recover before the end of the month. These people that sabotage the votes don't even have to use a single 1 vote to compromise the voting system. So you see, it really doesn't matter what system of voting is used here, as the same can be done to a 1-10 voting system as well.

As for the votes being too high, by friends voting only 5's, the truth is, if those who were honest voted instead of backing out without voting I think you'd you see a radical change in the top lists for the good. Since that is what it would take to foil the miscreants who abuse the system. No story that is posted on literotica deserves a 1, as it wouldn't get past Laurel if it did. Just being posted here deserves a 2 for the courage it takes to post something in the first place. So stories should be judged more by those who post here as they know what it takes to make a story than most of the readers do.

So how do I vote, when I read a story in here now, and how do I grade stories?

1= No such story posted at literotica.

2= For the courage to post a story, but the story is so filled with miss spelling, and grammar errors, dull, or outrageous to the point of being obscure, that it can't really be voted any higher.

3= Average, well written as far as having minimal spell and grammatical errors, has a simple plot, and character development, but isn't very original. Basically what I call more than a half hearted attempt, but pretty average as stories go. This writer hasn't hit their nitch as yet, but they are promising.

4= Much better than the average story telling even if the plot, and character development isn't what I consider original. This is a story worth publishing. I may not like the genre, but that doesn't mean the story doesn't deserve being published as I don't buy Teen Idol magazines, or HQ, but they sell just the same.

5= This is the kind of story that regardless of it's genre, is more than just well written, and sustains my interest right up to the surprise, or semi-surprise ending.

Now I'm not saying that everyone should vote the way I do, but if we were honest about it, instead of backing out, the authors who write crap would quickly find that out from now on. As it is now, by not voting we are encouraging them to write more crap, not less.

Is it our responcibility to vote, and vote honestly? Yes.

Do I vote one way for friends, and another way for others? No.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[karmadog]

It's not about honesty, Dirt Man, it's about the value of my time.

Why, why would I waste my valuable time reading an awful story?

 

[MathGirl]

Syndrome

Over a period of 2 hours on friday night my story "Educating the Capo", went from number one in the Novels and Novellas Top List and on the site top list, to number 26 on the novels and novellas list and way out of sight on the site list.
So... how was your weekend?

Ah, the old "The bottom dropped out of the score" syndrome. I've experienced that with just about everything I ever submitted.

What can we do about it? Nuthin

MG

 

[SexyChele]

Yeah, that sucks, KW. But you probably have a band of readers who truly do like what you write and want to see more. Remember those. Plus, the more you write, you find that there are people who look forward to your stories, no matter what. (Of course, there are those who wait to bash as well, but I prefer to dwell on the positive.)

It would be nice if Lit were able to incorporate a system which, when a reader votes either a "2" or a "1", the systems demands that the reader send some type of feeback to the writer. I post to a site that does this, and though many writers will get a mid-score to bring down their total score, you receive relative few 1s or 2s. Granted, most of the feedback is simply "Your story sucked", but more often than not, people will state what was wrong with it in their minds. It's an interesting system, and one that would work here at Lit, AND keep the relatively low scores, done out of spite/revenge/whatever, to a minimum.

 

[pop_54]

Hmmm

Sorry to hear you've been attacked by the idiots kiwi. Only to be expected though I'm affraid.

I aint been here long enough to even fit in let alone get to know everyone or understand the mentality of some, or for that matter know for sure if vote rigging goes on.

But one of the good, but not clique, members like yourself is bound to suffer if you threaten some of the folks who are a legend in their own mind, and that applies everywhere not just Lit.


As for the mentality of the friends who assist with the aleged vote rigging, Hmm I don't know, if a mate of mine e-mailed me or phoned me and asked if I'd mind voting down someones story somewhere, we'd fall out of friendship very quickly.

Keep your chin up mate, and take pride in the fact that you're good enough to scare the shit out of them.

pops............

 

[Dirt Man]

If it's crap, then vote it as such, but vote...

It's not about honesty, Dirt Man, it's about the value of my time. Why, why would I waste my valuable time reading an awful story?

Then vote it a 2, and you've done your duty. After all, you opened the page to start with. So something drew your attention to do that. If we who know don't vote, then we deserve to let the crap win.

They in turn also take home the cash prizes so they can pay their friends off for voting for them. LOL

Not voting at all, and backing out allows the crap to rise to the top, and that is what isn't fair.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[wildsweetone]

For what it's worth dear, I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the story.

You don't have to tell anyone publically or privately, but I think it pays to have a selective few people whose opinions are meaningful to you, to help you ascertain the worthiness of your own writing. If you choose people with a very wide and differing set of abilities, then you are likely to get a better overall and honest opinion of your own work.

Selecting the more 'appropriate to authors' kind of feedback you take notice of, will also help you to discern your competency.

I believe there are enough eligible authors within Literotica for you to gauge your own level of achievement. There is also the occasional reader who will voluntarily send 'useful' feedback that you can learn from.

All of those things are far preferable to the voting system here. The huge variables within the voting system cannot be relied upon to give an author a serious indication of your works merit.

The mere fact that you've begun a thread that includes the word 'vote' will ensure you, and all who post to it, have down votes cast against your stories.

Sure, let the readers vote. It's pointless pulling a system out that only a minority abuse. But use your own authors discretion as to how much you allow it to affect your writing.

Darn, I waffled again. Blame it on the bugs.

When the hell is Chapter 2 coming out anyways?

 

[Vincent E]

Feedback is by far the most fair way Literotica has of letting you know what others think about your story. The voting system was probably intended as a way of creating a reader's guide to the various stories that have been posted, but as with any rating system that incorprates numbers it became competitive and thus there are people out there looking to skew the ratings numbers of others writers.

The problem with the voting system is that it is only one score. However, what is that one number judging? I have read some very well written stories in the past that were fairly erotic, but nothing that thrilled me. I would probably give a story like that a 4. Other stories need a lot of work grammatically and the writing is shoddy, but the author has a truly innovative and unique story idea. I would also give that type of story a 4. I may give a story a 3, but unless I send feedback to the writer there is no telling what that score means, and there is no way of letting anyone else know what that number means.

With the thousands of stories posted here at Literotica there does need to be some type of formula for letting readers know how a story is regarded by other readers. I would suggest that only those scores that incorporate feedback be considered. More importantly the feedback could not be anonymous. That would still make it easy for people to simply torpedo a story they felt had a better score than their own.

 

[Dirt Man]

4's instead of eaned 3's is back peddaling...

Other stories need a lot of work grammatically and the writing is shoddy, but the author has a truly innovative and unique story idea. I would also give that type of story a 4.

I know I'm not going to win any friends saying this, but:

An idea is not a story, in truth, what you suggest here is motivation, and that can be done with a proper 3 rating that the story deserved, and a follow up feedback. By giving the story a 4 you have done the author an injustice, and they will not learn from a mistake that they are unaware of. Why would you do this to a fellow author? Or would you?

The point is, vote properly, and always vote. Do you know why authors, especially new authors hate critics? Because they don't know how to critique. To tell somebody that their story sucks isn't giving critique, it's just plain rudeness, or petty hijinks. However being blunt while critiquing a story, even savagely blunt is something any author should appreciate. As they now know that there is an area that they need to work on harder in their writing.

By giving a 4 where a 3, or even just a 2 was rightly deserved is pardon me for saying this, just as lame as backing off of the page without voting your honest opinion. Give the author some credit, especially if they are new at this. They want to get better, didn't you? But they can't if we aren't giving them what they so desparately need. Peer power used properly can be a stimulating motivation, while platitudes, and good intentions merely endanger the ego lifting it to new heights of stupidity.

If you open a story, then you have the responcibility to vote on it at the very least, and send feedback at the very most. Since unless you say otherwise, the feedback is always Annonymous, why not be as blunt as possible, and give a true critique when you do give feed back. Your buddy won't know it's you, and they'll take your true feedback better because they don't. AND you will be dealing the dirt to those that deserve it.


As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[Svenskaflicka]

Honestly, I have voted 1 a couple of times. Normally, if a story is bad, I get bored after 2 paragraphs, and hit the back button. But sometimes, the story is just SO f-ing bad, that I scroll down to vote 1 for it. Not to be mean, but to show the author that I don't think that the story was a good-quality piece. Usually, I also send feedback, telling what I didn't like about it.

 

[Dirt Man]

1 votes get deleted by Laurel...

If you want to make a statement vote 2. See my scoring method above, subtitled; Welcome to the club.


As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[KillerMuffin]

The voting system was created because the authors asked for it. Other sites did it and they wanted Lit to do it. So the voting system was created. There were a lot fewer problems when the top lists were only the top 25 stories of the site and that list updated once a month.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Muffin I agree with the voting system. My point, as camoflagued as it was by burble and waffle, is the abuse of the system.

Contrary to appearance, I don't care where my story rests on the top list as long as it is read and I get good feedback. By good I mean constructive. If you hate my story... tell me. And tell me why. If you love it ... again tell me... and why.

Yep the ego stroke was great. The feedback is better.

I'm tired and scratchy so I hope this is making sense. Plus I have a sore little finger. Feel sorry for me?

 

[SexyChele]

Re: 1 votes get deleted by Laurel...

If you want to make a statement vote 2. See my scoring method above, subtitled; Welcome to the club.


As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

Unless I'm really off my cookie here, I don't believe Laurel deletes all votes of "1". She deletes any that are duplicates, and then she deletes both of them. The same is true for a "5" vote. If she determines that the votes came from the same person, she deletes both of them.

If Laurel were to delete all "1" votes, then what would the purpose be to enable people to vote a "1"? She might as well have the voting start at "2". But then, people could abuse that, and she would get stuck having to delete duplicate votes of "2" until that was done away with. Before you know it, a vote of "3" would be all that was left. (Because, naturally, she would have to eliminate the "5" votes, and then the "4" votes.)

Okay, I'm gonna go crawl back under my rock now...

 

[Dirt Man]

Unless I'm really off my cookie here, I don't believe Laurel deletes all votes of "1". She deletes any that are duplicates, and then she deletes both of them. The same is true for a "5" vote. If she determines that the votes came from the same person, she deletes both of them.

If this is true, then truely this system is more fucked up than I thought previously. LOL As all it takes is a few small minded people to totally sabotage the rating system here. Which also means that the contests with prize money is certainly tainted if it is won on the readers votes by this system. And makes my point that all of us should vote on ever story that we open here.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man