The problem with the GOP is that it is no longer the party of conservatives.

[Kirkrapine]

Conservatives are cautious. They want to preserve the present, not go back to the past. They are suspicious of radical experiments of any kind. They would never think of eliminating or privatizing the programs of the Great Society or the New Deal or the Progressive Era. No conservative would ever chant "End the Fed!" or "Molon labe!" or even "Lock her up!" The GOP is now the party of insane radical reactionaries.

Conservatives fear the unintended consequences of progressive initiatives -- which is not unreasonable; unintended consequences are always a possibility. But the radical reactionaries fear the intended consequences: They really do not want to live in a society of free and equal human beings. As such, they have nothing of value to offer America, nothing at all.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Senator Robert Taft was a reactionary, not a conservative. So was Goldwater, when he ran for president (he became somewhat more reasonable in later years). So has been the entire post-Goldwater "conservative" movement.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Eisenhower, now, he was a conservative -- and the last decent Republican we've ever had in the WH. (Ford was an accident, not a president.)

 

[BotanyBoy]

True, one could also argue that the DNC is sliding rapidly away from liberalism in favor of more authoritarian varieties of socialism too, feeding into the reactionary right.

That harder L v R rift is represented from municipal all the way to federal level and seems to be accelerating away from the center.

I think people are tired of riding centrism into absolute uselessness and it's just a matter of time before we go left or right.

How that break happens...idk....but it's going to happen.

 

[Kirkrapine]

True, one could also argue that the DNC is sliding rapidly away from liberalism in favor of more authoritarian varieties of socialism too, feeding into the reactionary right.

Not if one were rational, one couldn't. The polarization and radicalization of American politics has been entirely assymetrical -- were it not, Sanders, or someone to his left, would have been the Dem nominee in 2016. The GOP has been transformed into an ideological party, while the Democratic Party remains what it was in the 1970s -- a coalition of interest groups.

One of the Kennedy family, I think it was a woman, once remarked in the early 1960s that she would hate to have to try to explain to a foreigner the difference between Democrats and Republicans. In those days the parties were not so much ideological as tribal groupings; each party had its liberal, moderate and conservative wings. But Goldwater set in motion a process, accelerated by Nixon's Southern Strategy, which drove the moderates and liberals out of the GOP and invited in white Southern conservative, meaning racist, Democrats, with the result that the party of Lincoln is now the party of Jefferson Davis.

 

[Kirkrapine]

I think people are tired of riding centrism into absolute uselessness . . .

Well, I don't know about that. I think many if not most people would call themselves centrists. Unless you're talking about radical centrism (yes, that is an actual thing).

 

[BotanyBoy]

Not if one were rational, one couldn't. The polarization and radicalization of American politics has been entirely assymetrical --

That's simply and demonstrably untrue.

Especially since the peak of anti leftist sentiment of the late seventies through the early nineties. You can read the newspapers and see what they are saying back then.....by todays (D) standards they were a bunch of crack pot racist libertoonians.

Not to mention polarization explicitly implies both ends moving away from each other.

were it not, Sanders, or someone to his left, would have been the Dem nominee in 2016.

If Hillary and the DNC hadn't done all they could to sink him he probably would have LOL

But seriously.....no.

A DSA doesn't have to win the (D) potus ticket for the DNC to be sliding left.

The GOP has been transformed into an ideological party, while the Democratic Party remains what it was in the 1970s -- a coalition of interest groups.

LMFAO!!! That's fucking funny right there.....

https://media.giphy.com/media/EysAMIOt4GOmk/giphy.gif



All political parties are a coalition of interest groups, it's what those interests are and how the groups intend to apply them that determines what kind of party those groups make.

 

[Liar]

I think you're both sort of right depending on the time frame. This millenia has seen the left idling leftwards back to it's labour movement roots, albeit in a sometimes confused fashion. But before that, there was a decade and a half of the opposite.

If there's a siver lining to Trump winning the election it's probably that the niether very liberal nor very leftist neo-liberal generation had it's last dead cat bounce.

The Clintons, Blaire in the UK, Shroeder in Germany and various others. In name center-left, in realpolitik center right while paying lip service to leftist social and cultural ideas.

 

[bellisarius]

You might want to research what "Conservatism" and and what its goals are before you post this sort of drivel.

 

[Kirkrapine]

The arrogant, crude, cruel, coarse, vulgar, willfully ignorant, ill-spirited, mean-minded, sometimes violent, and often completely bizarre and surreal messaging and antics we have seen out of the GOP and its allies over the past few years is not in the conservative tradition. Conservatives treasure civility; they value truth and reason, at least to the extent that they do not accept "alternative facts" as anything but falsehoods; and they respect the legitimacy of their opposition. None of that can be said of today's Republicans.

 

[Rightguide]

That's simply and demonstrably untrue.

Especially since the peak of anti leftist sentiment of the late seventies through the early nineties. You can read the newspapers and see what they are saying back then.....by todays (D) standards they were a bunch of crack pot racist libertoonians.

Not to mention polarization explicitly implies both ends moving away from each other.





If Hillary and the DNC hadn't done all they could to sink him he probably would have LOL

But seriously.....no.

A DSA doesn't have to win the (D) potus ticket for the DNC to be sliding left.



LMFAO!!! That's fucking funny right there.....




All political parties are a coalition of interest groups, it's what those interests are and how the groups intend to apply them that determines what kind of party those groups make.

He seems unaware the Democratic Party has morphed into the New Communist Party.

 

[Kirkrapine]

[Please do not post copyright material without citation, and then limit your excerpts to less than 5 paragraphs, per our forum guidelines.]

 

[SpeareChucker]

Is this the new Eyer alt?





Just axin'

 

[Kirkrapine]

He seems unaware the Democratic Party has morphed into the New Communist Party.

IF ONLY!

 

[Kirkrapine]

Just try to imagine William F. Buckley talking like Donald Trump. You can't. Even if you assume he would say the same things in fancier words (he really loved his fancy words, ol' Bill did), you really cannot imagine him saying those same things in any words, can you? There is a great gulf fixed.

 

[beew]

Another American phenomenon is the infamous neoconservatism.

Developed during the Seventies, it has been initially described as the ideology of "socialists for Nixon" or a "[US-style] liberal mugged by reality" — former leftists who have moved to the conservative camp after becoming disillusioned with their own.

As such, neoconservatism shares tenets of US-style conservatism, such as democracy and free markets, with the tendencies of the Left. Thus, neoconservatives have been known for their approval of welfare and big government.

In the economy, they support capitalism but endorse state interventionism.

However, neoconservatism has garnered most of its criticism from its foreign policies, where these progressive tendencies resulted in doctrine of belligerency, a disdain for diplomacy, and aggressive promotion of capitalist democracy. Altogether, this might've been forgettable, but then the USA suffered a terrorist attack in 2001, aand...

The definition added several many dots on my ii's.
And it should give BotanyBoy's portrayal of Corporatism and Oligarchiam as paragon of free market/private businnesses freedom which are being sabotaged by the State,
a run for it's money.


But shouldn't you replace the term American neoconservativism with Global Neoliberalism -or socialist corporatism or whatever- which started in the 70's with Thatcher?
(Neoliberalism having nothing to do with either traditional Liberalism or Conservatism)

From a more ideological pov, Neoliberalism also led to the deiification of Economics (contributing to the country's Economy is the highest virtue), and commodification of human existence.

 

[toeskr]

The arrogant, crude, cruel, coarse, vulgar, willfully ignorant, ill-spirited, mean-minded, sometimes violent, and often completely bizarre and surreal messaging and antics we have seen out of the GOP and its allies over the past few years is not in the conservative tradition. Conservatives treasure civility; they value truth and reason, at least to the extent that they do not accept "alternative facts" as anything but falsehoods; and they respect the legitimacy of their opposition. None of that can be said of today's Republicans.

Don't just post in bold, put it in caps!

 

[Kirkrapine]

Don't just post in bold, put it in caps!

Nah, too Trumpy.

 

[toeskr]

IF ONLY!

Oh wait, never mind. But the emojis give it that extra kick for believability.

 

[toeskr]

Nah, too Trumpy.

What’s that?

 

[Kirkrapine]

Oh wait, never mind. But the emojis give it that extra kick for believability.

Caps work well enough for ultra-short phrases that could as easily be acronyms.

 

[Kirkrapine]

What’s that?

"Trumpy." Adjectival form of "slubberdegullion."

 

[toeskr]

"Trumpy." Adjectival form of "slubberdegullion."

Otay.

 

[BotanyBoy]

He seems unaware the Democratic Party has morphed into the New Communist Party.

Bunch of (D)'s come out and advocate government control/ownership/administration over the means of production and distribution of goods and services. Open promotion of the authoritarian nationalization of a number of industries and their associated markets.

(D)'s call it liberalism.

Liberals and conservatives that made it through high school civic class call it socialism.

Fortunately we have a way to see who is full of shit and who's not.....
https://media1.tenor.com/images/82a6fda0c38b5f5a9c477be43963266c/tenor.gif?itemid=8074626

Let's check out the facts!!

liberalism
[lib-er-uh-liz-uh m, lib-ruh-]

noun

a political or social philosophy advocating the freedom of the individual, parliamentary systems of government, nonviolent modification of political, social, or economic institutions to assure unrestricted development in all spheres of human endeavor, and governmental guarantees of individual rights and civil liberties.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/liberalism

socialism
[soh-shuh-liz-uh m]
noun

1 a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

2 procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism?s=t

 

[bellisarius]

Let's check out the facts!!



https://www.dictionary.com/browse/liberalism



https://www.dictionary.com/browse/socialism?s=t

Take that one step further and go look up the 10 goals of Communism in the Communist Manifesto. Make a check list and see how far the Democrats AND Republicans (who are not and never have been truly conservative) have taken us down that road. How many check marks are there left to make?