The Prime Directive

[VaticanAssassin]

Good policy or cruel?

Not a Trekkie. I've seen the last two movies and probably all the originals through the reruns. Withholding medical advances, technological advances the could save millions, natural resources that could end wars. Seems a bit cruel doesn't it? So they can ad nance naturally? The federation advanced through blood and tears so everyone else should?

 

[Sean Renaud]

I'm sure in Star Trek it's got some kind of justification that I don't see.

IRL it's pretty fucking cruel BUT there are no IRL examples of two civilizations meeting and just being cool about it.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

Good policy or cruel?

Not a Trekkie. I've seen the last two movies and probably all the originals through the reruns. Withholding medical advances, technological advances the could save millions, natural resources that could end wars. Seems a bit cruel doesn't it? So they can ad nance naturally? The federation advanced through blood and tears so everyone else should?

When you're 20 billion miles from home the rules get a little indistinct.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

When you're 20 billion miles from home the rules get a little indistinct.

So you would play god?

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's not playing God. Even if it was hell yeah we should "play God" in this case. Hell in all cases really since it's a meaningless phrase.

 

[ms_ann_thrope]

So you would play god?

Depends on the mission.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

It's not playing God. Even if it was hell yeah we should "play God" in this case. Hell in all cases really since it's a meaningless phrase.

The Picard disagrees.

 

[pointless]

it's not cruel. it would be destructive to our culture for an alien civilization to just show up and bury us in their technological superiority. this has been proven time and time again here on earth without the help of any imaginary aliens.

also, it's not just about giving them new tech or not. it's also about their reaction to the existence of alien life in general. that too could be a total mind fuck to a planet that really had no fucking clue they weren't alone in the universe.

and, further more, in reality it would be for the best for us to not even try to fuck around with alien life primitive or not because of the possibility of infection and the fact that it would be extremely unlikely that we could even communicate with any intelligent alien life in the first place.

 

[Ishmael]

In the original Star Trek the 'Prime Directive' incidents were more common in their violation than in the observance. Which makes sense in the Galaxy that Roddenberry originally constructed. You had three belligerents, the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulans all competing for Sphere's of Influence etc. Those planets on the edges of the various factions were going to be interfered with one way or another by one faction or another.

And there were a few instances where the Enterprise interfered even without the competitive factor of the other two factions. The episode "A Piece of the Action" comes to mind.

A noble thought and an interesting plot ploy but as I said more often violated than observed.

Ishmael

 

[pointless]

it was "more violated than observed" because there's not as much interesting drama in not violating it.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Refresh my memory, trekkie boy. What the fuck is this "prime directive"?

Boldly go where no man has gone before?

 

[pointless]

Refresh my memory, trekkie boy. What the fuck is this "prime directive"?

Boldly go where no man has gone before?

no. it's the rule against influencing alien cultures. context, motherfucker.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

 

[RobDownSouth]

no. it's the rule against influencing alien cultures. context, motherfucker.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

Thanks. So it's some altruistic hoo-ha? Sounds like libertarianism, i.e. looks good on paper but falls apart in real-world application.
I deliberately injected politics into this thread so VatAss wouldn't lose face in front of his dad

 

[marshalt]

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated-reviews/prime-directive-analysis-5638650

 

[Sean Renaud]

The Picard disagrees.

I dun care.

it's not cruel. it would be destructive to our culture for an alien civilization to just show up and bury us in their technological superiority. this has been proven time and time again here on earth without the help of any imaginary aliens.

Inferior cultures are swallowed up by superior ones and assimilated into the whole. The Borg got that part right, they just didn't seem to learn much from the other cultures. LEaving them to their own devices is immeasurably cruel.

also, it's not just about giving them new tech or not. it's also about their reaction to the existence of alien life in general. that too could be a total mind fuck to a planet that really had no fucking clue they weren't alone in the universe.

Oh well. They learn the world is bigger than they imagined.

and, further more, in reality it would be for the best for us to not even try to fuck around with alien life primitive or not because of the possibility of infection and the fact that it would be extremely unlikely that we could even communicate with any intelligent alien life in the first place.

The possibility of infection is nil to none but that's only a good argument for staying away from all alien life forms, advanced or not. Annoying to the point of "why bother" of course. It might be like paperwork where you'd simply go and look at the planet, realized there are people down there and then say "fuck that, too much trouble, next rock's gotta have whatever the fuck I'm looking for, but not that it can't be done.

Communication with alien life should be relatively simple all things considered.

 

[KingOrfeo]

All Starfleet officers are sworn to die rather than violate the Prime Directive. ("Bread and Circuses.") However, the PD does not apply in situations where:

1. Plot logic demands it be violated.
2. Leaving the alien culture just as we found it would ruin the point of the story.
3. We need a base on this planet to keep an eye on the Klingons/Romulans/Cardassians/Dominion.
4. This society was already changed by pre-Federation or unauthorized human contact, as in "A Piece of the Action" or "Patterns of Force" or "The Omega Glory.'
5. The writers seem simply to have forgotten the PD ever existed, as in "Errand of Mercy."
6. The culture in question already has been influenced by Earth professional wrestling broadcasts. In such situation, the Genocide Directive applies.

 

[KingOrfeo]

What I wonder is:

Starfleet's Prime Directive forbids interference with the development of intelligent species more technologically/scientifically primitive than the Federation member races, and (I presume) within Federation space or outside it. This rules out any conquest, colonization, or exploitation of them. It also rules out any form of officially sanctioned missionary work, whether religious or political, i.e., teaching them about democracy.

But it would also seem to rule out any form commerce with them. If they deal with Federation traders they will at least be made aware of the existence of Federation technology, which cannot help but affect their development.

But, as we've seen more than once on the shows, the Federation is a civilization where private merchants travel around at warp speeds in their own private spacecraft. Does it apply to them, and if so how is it enforced? And what about private, not-officially-sanctioned missionary work?

 

[KingOrfeo]

BTW, I've always wondered whether it was a violation of the PD for Kirk even to try to honestly buy dilithium from the Halkans in the "Mirror, Mirror" episode. We tend to overlook that because Mirror-Kirk's/Starfleet's approach to the matter is . . . so very different.

 

[bronzeage]

It was a clever literary device to relieve the producers and writers of the Superman/Hitler paradox, which is, "If he was so super, why didn't Superman fly to Germany and kill Hitler?"

 

[KingOrfeo]

Thanks. So it's some altruistic hoo-ha? Sounds like libertarianism, i.e. looks good on paper but falls apart in real-world application.
I deliberately injected politics into this thread so VatAss wouldn't lose face in front of his dad

Well, it was the '60s, Africa had recently been decolonized, and Roddenberry was probably thinking of how it went for the Africans, American Indians, Indian Indians, Polynesians, etc., when the Euros came along to civilize them. Or, for that matter, when the Romans came along to civilize the Gauls. The notion seems to be that without the PD, the Federation would be something more like the cruel, piratical Terran Empire in the "Mirror Mirror" universe.

'60s was also in the Cold War, of course. Federation = U.S./NATO, Klingons = USSR/Warsaw Pact, Romulans = PRChina. The Cold War was in large part a war of prestige and propaganda, both sides trying to get the Third World countries on their side. The Federation, like the U.S., does this mainly by claiming moral superiority, and therefore is obliged to demonstrate it in some ways on occasion.