The New Poems Review Thread Poll

[Angeline]

Please take a moment to answer the attached poll about the future of the new poem recommendations. Our current practice, which is not working so well, is for people to volunteer to recommend new poems one day a week. At present only two days are spoken for (which says a lot about how popular/rewarding it is). There is also a question--at least for me--about how effective this process is in bringing new poets to the forum though we all agree that new poets are always good for us.

With your input we can make this work better for all. Feel feel to question, comment, discuss, be irrelevant or whatever else moves you, but answer the poll before you leave the thread! Oh and assume that whatever option you choose that involves recommending or nominating a new poem requires telling the new poet and inviting them to the forum.

I'll keep the poll open for 30 days, so you have plenty of time to make up your mind, take vacations, ignore it until the last minute, etc.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Um - nothing to see here.... move on.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Never mind.

 

[Desejo]

To add to this: I would also like to see more discussion on recommended poems - either in the forum or as comments on the poem itself. I think it would help with improving the quality of posted work. Whatever the choice, I agree that the poets need to be informed and directed to the forum.

 

[Angeline]

To add to this: I would also like to see more discussion on recommended poems - either in the forum or as comments on the poem itself. I think it would help with improving the quality of posted work. Whatever the choice, I agree that the poets need to be informed and directed to the forum.

Des, I agree about discussion though I'd prefer to do more work-shopping of poems that we write here on the forum. People who write new poems may appreciate the feedback or they may not be especially interested in anything but praise. I personally find it really disappointing to put time and effort into a review for someone who then tells me something like, "I only write one draft." And yes that has happened to me enough times that I'm unwilling to go the extra mile unless I know the poet whose work I'm discussing and that they want feedback.

We've had a few threads over the years ("Not for the Thin Skinned" is one that comes to mind) where you gave critique to get the same on your own poems. For example, you put a poem up for review and agree to do reviews for two other poems as the price of admission. I'd love to do something like this again not only for the feedback, but because we all learn from each other how to be better at critique.

 

[HarryHill]

I don't like any of those choices as a singular solution, sorry. Let's throw something else out. Why not put a link in the NP thread leading back to the NPR thread... show 'em the front door, serve drinks n hors d'oeuvres, kinda like a poetry open house. Kill the comment thread.

Are you back now? Missing you as the dog days draw near here at a Lit eration.

 

[Angeline]

I don't like any of those choices as a singular solution, sorry. Let's throw something else out. Why not put a link in the NP thread leading back to the NPR thread... show 'em the front door, serve drinks n hors d'oeuvres, kinda like a poetry open house. Kill the comment thread.

Are you back now? Missing you as the dog days draw near here at a Lit eration.

Ok so you are saying a new thread where anyone can post a recommend anytime but that has a link to the old thread (which would be unstuck). Have I got it right? If so, I think it's an excellent idea.

I'm back, yes. It took me a few days to recover but we had three solid weeks of one set of visitors after another. And these are all people I love, but I am still kinda wiped from hostessing and cooking and running around. Now it's just me, eagleyez and my son again. Much calmer.

 

[HarryHill]

Ok so you are saying a new thread where anyone can post a recommend anytime but that has a link to the old thread (which would be unstuck). No, an actual link from NP (mayhap a floating header) The comment has been made that new submitters have no idea NPR exists, with a link out there they will be aware that something exists to nurture and stroke their passion, poetry. The thread may get a little sticky though.

Welcome back

 

[bogusagain]

I have to admit, I've stopped reading new poems and so new poem recommendations. Life's just too short to trawl through all those wishful thinking banana man, I'm gonna do you 'til you plead for mercy' poems and slag Barbie 'fuck me like the slut I am' poems. Up to a point they are funny and when people are serious about writing, I don't mind putting in my two penneth. However, on the whole, people are writing for their own fantasies and don't want anyone puncturing their fantasies.

There seems enough poems on the forum which never get commented on which deserve people's times more than randon masturbation poems. But then, that's just me.

 

[Angeline]

Welcome back

Thanks Mr. Hill.

Now let's see if I am getting you correctly this time. Do you want a link to the poetry forum from the New Poems page? I'm not sure we can make that happen. For one, that would be up to Laurel, not me or the pobo mods. We mods don't have anything to do with the submissions page or process (or site design). She might go for it, but if we do it others may want it for their forums as well (authors ask for a link at top of all stories, bdsm crowd wants a link from the bdsm stories, etc.). Actually I like your idea a lot, but I can see why Laurel might not want to go for it. And there's already a link to the boards at the bottom of that page. Also remember that we are one of the smaller groups at Lit. We get nowhere near the traffic that other forums here do. So I can ask but I'm not sure she'll want to do it.

I have to admit, I've stopped reading new poems and so new poem recommendations. Life's just too short to trawl through all those wishful thinking banana man, I'm gonna do you 'til you plead for mercy' poems and slag Barbie 'fuck me like the slut I am' poems. Up to a point they are funny and when people are serious about writing, I don't mind putting in my two penneth. However, on the whole, people are writing for their own fantasies and don't want anyone puncturing their fantasies.

There seems enough poems on the forum which never get commented on which deserve people's times more than randon masturbation poems. But then, that's just me.

I tend to agree with you that there's a whole lot of shit to wade through, but there are often good poems there, too, and we want to find a way to entice those people to the forum. Personally I find it takes relatively little time to click through and see (with a quick scan) whether I want to carefully read or go on to the next poem. Not that I do it as often as I should, but I try. And we've found some of the best poets here that way--scan, find a good poem, invite person to forum.

And I am definitely in agreement with you that we need to focus more on giving feedback to each other. We need to set up a process where that can happen more regularly.

 

[bogusagain]

Thanks Mr. Hill.

And I am definitely in agreement with you that we need to focus more on giving feedback to each other. We need to set up a process where that can happen more regularly.

I have been tempted to make a critical remark (in a constructive way) on several poems in the 2013 thread but I am never sure when it's appropriate. Slapping someones back and having ones own backed slapped is very pleasant and I wouldn't want to stop it but sometimes a pertinent comment is more constructive.

That is not to say, I'm complaining about having my ego stroked from time to time. Keep stroking it please!

 

[Angeline]

I have been tempted to make a critical remark (in a constructive way) on several poems in the 2013 thread but I am never sure when it's appropriate. Slapping someones back and having ones own backed slapped is very pleasant and I wouldn't want to stop it but sometimes a pertinent comment is more constructive.

That is not to say, I'm complaining about having my ego stroked from time to time. Keep stroking it please!

I'll stroke yours if you stroke mine.

I personally am always up for critical feedback. I may or may not agree but I always appreciate seeing a reader's perspective. And I am genuinely grateful for the time and effort it takes to be more critical. I don't even mind when someone says a poem is not working for them though I appreciate an explanation why. And I'll respond in kind in my own feedback if I know the other poet wants it and won't take it as personal criticism. I never intend it that way.

 

[HarryHill]

Well I cast my vote today, straight to the bottom If there was a choice of taking the remaining electrons left from the destruction of the thread, loading it in a cyclotron and smashing it to bosons, I would have checked that instead.

There seems enough poems on the forum which never get commented on which deserve people's times more than randon masturbation poems. But then, that's just me.

Was that a shot bogus? ...a comment on my choice of NP to recommend? Yes, I believe 'wanking' was mentioned, but there were so many disjointed (drums fingers on desk) ...thing/concepts it reminded me of the beat poets. Perhaps it was a radon masturbation poem, don't get to close, the radioactivity is killer.
Tess said it best, 'nothing to see here'
..
In conclusion, dear Bogus, recommend something, I'll read it.

 

[butters]

well i'd have left two choices but it's only accepting one, so a new thread where anyone can recommend at any time is probably the one that will prove easiest to maintain, as well as taking the pressure off those who usually find it all up to them. i would have also picked the next option - where anyone can recommend for 'poem of the week' - but that would definitely be a more time-consuming thread since we'd then have to discuss and choose; it would make sure more consideration of the pieces took place, but without full-time maintenance it'd be hard to make it work. happy to go either way. the main concern will be (imo) to let those people know their piece is recommended and to invite them over to the pobo.

 

[bogusagain]

Was that a shot bogus? ...a comment on my choice of NP to recommend? Yes, I believe 'wanking' was mentioned, but there were so many disjointed (drums fingers on desk) ...thing/concepts it reminded me of the beat poets. Perhaps it was a radon masturbation poem, don't get to close, the radioactivity is killer.
Tess said it best, 'nothing to see here'
..

It was no dig. I don't mind masturbation poems if they are written to be read by a reader and aren't just masturbatory fantasy of the writer.

Here's a nice little poem of John Updike freely available on the internet..

Fellatio

How beautiful to think
that each of these clean secretaries
at night, to please her lover, takes
a fountain into her mouth
and lets her insides, drenched with seed,
flower into her landscapes:
meadows sprinkled with baby's breath,
hoarse twiggy woods, birds dipping, a multitude
of skies containing clouds, plowed earth stinking
of its upturned humus, and small farms each
with a silver silo.

In conclusion, dear Bogus, recommend something, I'll read it.

Now you would have to buy these books, you can't read them on the internet, they are brilliant.

Graves Registry - Keith Wilson

Johnny’s Song - Steve Mason


Both American, one is about Korea, the other about Vietnam. You could call them anti-war poems, you could just call them poems of experience.

 

[HarryHill]

It was no dig. I don't mind masturbation poems if they are written to be read by a reader and aren't just masturbatory fantasy of the writer.

Here's a nice little poem of John Updike freely available on the internet..

Fellatio

How beautiful to think
that each of these clean secretaries
at night, to please her lover, takes
a fountain into her mouth
and lets her insides, drenched with seed,
flower into her landscapes:
meadows sprinkled with baby's breath,
hoarse twiggy woods, birds dipping, a multitude
of skies containing clouds, plowed earth stinking
of its upturned humus, and small farms each
with a silver silo.

Nice, I need a good secretary, or a poor one at that.
Now you would have to buy these books, you can't read them on the internet, they are brilliant.
I use my money for bills not books, besides I have stacks aplenty;it seems my challenge was conditional.
Both American, one is about Korea, the other about Vietnam. You could call them anti-war poems, you could just call them poems of experience.

..
Tired of war too, no matter how beautifully told. Recommend something else.

 

[bogusagain]

Tony Harrison V. Heavy going but worth the effort. Part 1 There's a five minute introduction.

Roger McGough is light but good fun Let Me Die A Youngman's Death

Identification

Then there's Brian Patten. You come to me quiet as rain not yet fallen

Sometimes it happens

I found 'sometimes it happens' on youtube being sung The sound is not the best but you'll get the idea.

This is a nice video of Brian Pattern.

 

[HarryHill]

My hearing is impaired, so Part 1 is a loss along with the other vids and audios.
Roger McGough, 'Let Me Die A Youngman's Death', very satisfying, you could fill half a page with the things he does correctly; the sonics of the second line were especially elegant.
404 error on identification
Brian Patten, the first was a study in in symantics i think. hard for me to pin down exactly what was said in some lines. the second, 'Sometimes it happens', was brilliant. Thanks for showing me that one.
Now go find one poem in NP to recommend me. Should I recommend one to you? Now where did I leave my Kippling?

 

[bogusagain]

Now go find one poem in NP to recommend me. Should I recommend one to you? Now where did I leave my Kippling?

The first one I came across where the writer was trying and shows promise was Dirty Concrete by SandyB. At least she is trying metaphors.

 

[HarryHill]

*reposted the url, yours gave me a 404*
Dirty Concrete by sandyb I liked it perhaps if she lost the conjunction leading in the forth line, I would like it better. a little sonics action in the first two lines and an invisible rhyme in the last line, some sort of cadence or iambic structure, 12 would know what I'm trying to say, do you?. I'm going to PM sandyb and see if she cares to comment or vote. time for tiffin, later, and thanks again.

 

[greenmountaineer]

*reposted the url, yours gave me a 404*
Dirty Concrete by sandyb I liked it perhaps if she lost the conjunction leading in the forth line, I would like it better. a little sonics action in the first two lines and an invisible rhyme in the last line, some sort of cadence or iambic structure, 12 would know what I'm trying to say, do you?. I'm going to PM sandyb and see if she cares to comment or vote. time for tiffin, later, and thanks again.

Sandyb's poem was good craft IMO, something you don't see often, particularly with the "erotic" poem submissions. Thanks for the link. I don't think I would have read it otherwise.

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

Sandyb's poem was good craft IMO, something you don't see often, particularly with the "erotic" poem submissions. Thanks for the link. I don't think I would have read it otherwise.

All her poems stand out as exceptional surrounded as they are by the usual drek, Bogus lead me there - I usually miss Saturday's catch.

 

[sandyb]

Thanks all for the comments on "Dirty Concrete."

I'm all for any process that encourages more commentary on poems. Virtually any comments received are potentially useful to a writer in my opinion.

I voted for keep current thread but allow anyone to recommend at any time. It seems to me that the only restriction on that thread should be that we dont want back and forth chit chat but that recommendations and even extended debate should be allowed.

The real issue is how to focus on the submissions worth commentary and that remains difficult.

 

[Angeline]

Thanks all for the comments on "Dirty Concrete."

I'm all for any process that encourages more commentary on poems. Virtually any comments received are potentially useful to a writer in my opinion.

I voted for keep current thread but allow anyone to recommend at any time. It seems to me that the only restriction on that thread should be that we dont want back and forth chit chat but that recommendations and even extended debate should be allowed.

The real issue is how to focus on the submissions worth commentary and that remains difficult.

Hi sandy. Thanks for your vote and comments.

It's looking to me as if we will have a new thread that encourages everyone to comment whenever they want. If we don't keep the current NPR thread, we will link to it in the new one. That way anyone who wants to see how others did recommendations in the past can easily reference it.

One of the ongoing issues with the thread (either new or old) has been whether people recommend or review. When I did the NPR I had a tendency to review the poems I really liked, rather than just say "read this one." Back then, most people felt a review was too much work so (maybe around 2007, I'm not sure), we agreed that we would simply recommend poems. But some people still want reviews and some still like to write them. So with the new thread I think people should feel free to say as much or as little as they want about a poem. The only rule should be that the thread is only for recommending or reviewing new poems.

As to your other concern, that chatting needs to be kept to a minimum, we have another thread here, called "To Keep the Review Thread Clean," which is where people can chat, thank reviewers for their comments, etc. We can keep that, too, and link to it so people know it's there. And we could stick it if people really want though it has worked fine all these years without it being a sticky thread. (And my personal preference is to have as few threads permanently "stuck" as possible.)

Oh and I probably should remind everyone that this thread is simply for voting and discussion on how to deal with new poem discussion in the future. Until this issue is resolved, if anyone wants to recommend a poem (no matter what day of the week!), use the current NPR thread for that, not this one.

 

[HarryHill]

...Feel feel to question, comment, discuss, be irrelevant or whatever else moves you ...

Oh and I probably should remind everyone that this thread is simply for voting and discussion on how to deal with new poem discussion

..
changing the rules? I vote for a soiled thread instead of a clean one, but then, what do you expect from a dirty old man?