The misery of being misunderstood

[AlinaX]

I haven't read the story of course, but are you sure that you are being misunderstood? You seem to agree with his criticism.

In part, what I'm venting about is that I, as the author, see the whole story arc and how the pieces fit together. Readers, however, approach it one chapter at a time and very often lose interest before seeing how they tie together. Of course, I understand that an author complaining about readers is self-defeating and that it's my responsibility to engage and hold readers' interest.

Part of my frustration is that the comments system on Lit makes it difficult to have a conversation with a reader on the rare occasion like this that I'd like to.

Next question: how much have you plotted this out and how much are you publishing as you go? Going by the comment it sounds like a classic post-each-chapter-as-I-pants-it deal with the inspired fun first chapter that draws in the crowd and then the sputtering aimless plot following. If you have pants-published this, then this is expected. If you haven't, then perhaps you haven't plotted well enough.

Oddly for me, in this case I think all of the five original chapters were written before the first was published. I was juggling a lot of tropes, but it was important to me to make a coherent story out of them.

It also could just be one single dissatisfied reader to put in perspective, but you also admit that it's not the only critical comment, and that generally the story is not well received.

Yes. I'm not venting about this one specific reader, just using the comment as illustration of a wider dissatisfaction.

But overall, it sounds like this is a really high quality comment. It's frank, no bull, and tells you exact details as to what wasn't working for this reader.

Indeed. Good comment, happy author, but still. There's plenty to be fairly criticised about my writing. Sometimes I'm too hasty for my own good, sometimes a little too self-indulgent, sometimes too driven by a whimsical and contrary muse, and sometimes definitely a bit too pretentious...

But with this series more than anything else that I've written, what seems to throw many readers is that the story refuses to develop in the way they want and expect it to.

 

[TheLobster]

Just remember, you're being criticized by someone who thinks it's "threw line."

I can’t even figure out what was meant there. Is this a weird autocorrect snafu of “true to life”? It’s probably not “throwaway”, given the context, but you never know.

I need a Commentese to English translator sometimes…

 

[AlinaX]

I can’t even figure out what was meant there. Is this a weird autocorrect snafu of “true to life”? It’s probably not “throwaway”, given the context, but you never know.

No, a 'through' line, as in a common thread, and in this case it's the eponymous Vale herself.

 

[nice90sguy]

my responsibility to engage and hold readers' interest.

"responsibiliy" is a little strong here. I'd say. Your only real obligation when you write here is to get it accepted for publication which is a very low bar.

When I was a musician I had two hats: Wearing one of them, I played in a function band, where we had to (were obligated to) entertain. But I also had my own band, where we played what the fuck we wanted, and hoped people enjoyed it. I write here with the second hat, not the first.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I think the Hitchhiker's Guide through the galaxy would also bomb for a lot of readers. The first time I read it I was a teen, and I got pretty far before I truly threw my hands up in absolute confusion. Only a decade later I could appreciate it, but it isn't organised.

Besides, there's always people who do not like the current writing. If you're not using formulas every story is written differently and might not fit even your biggest fan. That happens.

I'd argue (at length given the opportunity but I'll spare you)...that the HHGttG is organized reasonably, but it was organized reasonably for a six episode radio series. There are a bunch of wacky ideas which might be hard to follow in themselves, but they were usually mostly limited to the episode they appeared in. The whole thing can be seen as a satire of the human race as a whole with philosophers, religions and scientists (and town planners) being particularly targeted and generally each segment makes it's point well.

The problem with the book is that it adds a whole bunch of extra stuff and then, Adams being a notoriously unreliable writer, his publisher snatching the draft off him at the third missed deadline (or whatever) and publishing only half the story. It actually kind of worked out well because the second book takes only the good stuff from the second series (which wasn't as flawless as the first) and then sticks the good ending from the first series on it. The books are probably better read by people who are already fans of the radio series (or the TV series which I also have a soft spot for, ropy sets and all).

 

[AlinaX]

I started with the TV series, then the books, then the radio script, and finally the radio series. Always loved it... until the fifth book ruined it for me.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

"responsibiliy" is a little strong here. I'd say. Your only real obligation when you write here is to get it accepted for publication which is a very low bar.

Fair comment but I think that the point is, if you want reader engagement, it's on you to engage them.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But with this series more than anything else that I've written, what seems to throw many readers is that the story refuses to develop in the way they want and expect it to.

Personally I don't mind a fucked-up/incoherent plot if the story keeps me around long enough for a good payoff. So the two questions are a) do you have a plot payoff in store? and b) do you have enough entertainment to keep them hanging around for said payoff?

So you wrote the first five chapters before submitting any, but then began adding to it. Perhaps this is a good time to put the brakes on and finish up the rest of the story (or at least plot and draft it all) before publishing any more. That way you can make sure that your plot will keep the readers on the ride.

 

[sirhugs]

@Devinter always said - as a compliment - that he never knew what to expect in my next story, regardless of category. I sometimes take a kitchen sink approach which puts off fans of kink A as I also include kink B, or switch the positions of the protagonists for kink A. So I empathize.

I have taken to having advisories at the beginning, like:

ADVISORY: While predominantly focusing on heterosexual sodomy, this story also features some lesbian sex, and a few scenes include involuntary female urination (normally as a result of strenuous ass-fucking). There is also one instance of a man drinking a woman's urine (as a prelude to more sodomy). You have been warned!

that sounds like a story I'd like to read!

 

[EmilyMiller]

@TheGreatOz snd @sirhugs

https://www.literotica.com/s/ella-in-an-anal-wonderland

 

[AlinaX]

Personally I don't mind a fucked-up/incoherent plot if the story keeps me around long enough for a good payoff. So the two questions are a) do you have a plot payoff in store? and b) do you have enough entertainment to keep them hanging around for said payoff?

So you wrote the first five chapters before submitting any, but then began adding to it. Perhaps this is a good time to put the brakes on and finish up the rest of the story (or at least plot and draft it all) before publishing any more. That way you can make sure that your plot will keep the readers on the ride.

In my not-so-humble opinion, the first five chapters were a complete story with a suitable payoff. This was a few years ago, btw. The sixth chapter followed hot on the heels of the others, and while it connects to the others it is tonally very different. I get why people don't like it, because the first five are playing with tropes, six and the later seven are more serious sci-fi. I doubt I will ever write another chapter under the Vale title.

Anyway, I'm not dismissing criticism. My vent here was more about the disconnect between plot and expectation, and in part how reading on Literotica makes us want to be sure of the tropes and kinks from the first page of a story before investing time in it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Anyway, I'm not dismissing criticism. My vent here was more about the disconnect between plot and expectation, and in part how reading on Literotica makes us want to be sure of the tropes and kinks from the first page of a story before investing time in it.

I've said this many times and been crucified for it. The majority of readers want us to recite their fantasies to them. They're not much interested in plot twists nor surprises. Subtlety bores them. They don't even care about spoilers. Just hit them over the head with their fave kink/trope with little or even no obstacles in the way.

If you write for plot and characters development (or heaven forbid some motive or theme) then that is your cross to bear. Do your thing and put it out there and hopefully the niche that likes it will find it. The audience is big enough that there is a niche for anything. You just gotta do your best to be seen and connect.

The readership is by-and-large (very) low brow (very) lowest common denominator. This is not a judgment. It's an observation. It's essentially a porn site that accepts all for free. You don't even need an account to read. There is going to be a lotttttaaaa riff-raff, and some bright and comprehensive readers sprinkled in. It's good to understand the audience so that you can put the feedback in perspective.

 

[cw5523729]

I don't love the "I haven't read your story but" tone to a lot of these comments.

Only one thing to do about that.

I was going to reply to your post but didn't take the time to read it

 

[nice90sguy]

I don't love the "I haven't read your story but" tone to a lot of these comments.

Only one thing to do about that.

Forgive me if this has already been posted, but I find failing to read threads fully, downright lazy

 

[LegendInMyOwnMind]

"responsibiliy" is a little strong here. I'd say. Your only real obligation when you write here is to get it accepted for publication which is a very low bar.

When I was a musician I had two hats: Wearing one of them, I played in a function band, where we had to (were obligated to) entertain. But I also had my own band, where we played what the fuck we wanted, and hoped people enjoyed it. I write here with the second hat, not the first.

I'd go further. You don't even have that obligation if you don't want to. So it's not accepted here? Publish it somewhere else with different standards, or don't publish it at all. Nothing wrong with keeping a story for yourself. The kingdom, the power, and the glory of writing are in writing, as are the sham, drudgery, and broken dreams of writing. We may lust after publication and favorable reader reaction, but in the end, they don't matter a proverbial two-penny damn.

 

[Z_TheWriter]

I'd actually argue that in a way getting a comment like that is a compliment. Yeah I know, hear me out.

If a reader is like "Wow this is dumb, there's nothing here," They'll just move on - no comment.
If a reader is like "This is the worst bullshit ever, fuck this writer!" They would be a lot more rude and less detailed.

This comment reads to me like "I didn't like the direction the story went, but the writer was good enough to hold my attention this far, and while I won't read more, I will give my thoughts."
That's actually pretty cool.

Would it be nicer to have someone love it? Absolutely.
Is this comment gonna help you? Only you can answer that.
But maybe this isn't really a bad thing?

(Sorry if this is just annoying optimism in the face of someone just wanting to vent.)

 

[AlinaX]

Wow, is this thread still alive? lol

To reiterate: I wasn't unhappy to get a comment - I love getting comments, even ones like this. I was just a little heartbroken on behalf of the story because the Literotica ecosystem encourages readers to expect certain tropes and literary conventions.

Annoying optimism welcome, but venting has been achieved. The needle has dropped down out of the red...

 

[Z_TheWriter]

Wow, apologies, I saw the update from the previous message, and while I did read (almost) everything, I somehow managed to miss how old the actual thread was

 

[AlinaX]

Witness Vale, alien girl, human sister, sexbot maker
With such tropes, what can be made? a vampire's bite is no safe quill
The world ends in burning sequel while the bots... keep on fucking

 

[LegendInMyOwnMind]

I just had my ninth story published, and I'm already working on the tenth. Let's see how much of it turns out to be kingdom, power, and glory; and how much turns out to be sham, drudgery, and broken dreams.

BTW, my eleven works are nine stories and two essays.

 

[RetroFan]

Sometimes readers in general don't 'get' your story, it does happen.

For example I wrote a story called 'Perving on My Virgin Cousins' in which a young guy who has been getting into trouble is banished by his long-suffering parents to live in another city with an aunt and uncle and his twin female cousins who are all devout fundamentalist Christians. The young man while improving his behaviour in most ways however becomes fixated on the two pretty girls being virgins at age 18, that they have taken abstinence pledges and wear purity rings, and that despite both having serious boyfriends they never do any more than holding hands or perhaps a light kiss on the cheek and that they will remain virgins until their wedding nights.

The male cousin does engage in voyeurism with the twins - perving on them by up-skirting and panty sniffing and fantasizing over them when they get undressed, bathe/shower, sit on the toilet or are having their periods - but the essential thing that turns him on about them is that the girls are virgins, he doesn't want to have sex with them nor does he want them to have sex with their boyfriends or other guys, he wants them to stay in their virginal state.

Readers just couldn't seem to understand how virginity in itself (not the taking thereof) could be a turn-on, and the story rated poorly with negative comments as a result.

 

[SmilingLez]

Got a couple of comments today on my Vale series, one on Ch. 3 with the reader feeling underwhelmed, and then this on Ch. 6:

and of course I'm deeply grateful for the reads and comments, and I understand the frustration. After all, the series is daft as hell, an attempt to weave together a collection of absurd tropes into a coherent story. The resulting tale is indeed chaotic. And...

Readers don't like it. I think they're lured in by the classic trope of 18yo boy getting a supersized cock and an obedient mother, only to find themselves reading futa-on-male and gender change chapters with other characters increasingly taking over.

I get it. I do. Readers like to know what they're getting into, and this story goes all over the place. But there is a story. (Weirdly, there are three. Chapter 5 bookends Chapter 1, Chapter 6 ties up some loose ends, and Chapter 7 changes everything. But whatevs.) And I'm lowkey proud of it.

Anyway, just needed to vent a little.

Opinions are like assholes everyone has one. My advice - ignore the smell YMMV

 

[MillieDynamite]