The Men's Rights movement is necessary because...

[LJ_Reloaded]

because women's rights groups will never protest this incident.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-pushing-and-slapping-joey-essex-8652396.html

A domestic abuse charity has condemned a comment made on reality TV show The Only Way is Essex that appeared to condone domestic abuse against men.

During last night's episode Sam Faiers admitted to slapping her ex-boyfriend Joey Essex around the face and pushing him during an argument.

She said: “In Dubai we had a massive row and I pushed him and I slapped him around the face. It was only a slap. Everyone slaps their boyfriend once, when they deserve it.”

Mark Brooks, chairman of ManKind, a charity that provides support for male victims of domestic abuse, said: “Domestic abuse is never acceptable and the comments made on TOWIE were completely wrong.

“It shows that hitting a man is wrongly still viewed as acceptable when rightly the producers would never have allowed Joey Essex to make the same comment if he ever assaulted Sam Faiers.”

“This shows the lack of acceptance by society that men are victims of domestic abuse too,” he added.

ITV, which broadcasts TOWIE, has recently tackled the subject of male victims of domestic abuse in a Coronation Street storyline involving Tyrone Dobbs and his aggressive partner Kirsty Soames.

Representatives for the hit ITV show did not return a call for comment.

Faiers’ father Lee was found guilty of abuse by battery in June 2011 at Basildon magistrates’ court in Essex.

 

[oodvibrations]

i dont see how this warrants a need for a men's rights movement. i dont really think you can compare this with the women's rights movement that continues to have a postive affect in generating social change in countries around the world.

 

[CandiCame]

Real egalitarians don't like a world where 40% of abuse victims are denied shelter because of their gender. Where a person's parenting rights can be revoked because of their gender. Where a person's rape accusation can be invalidated because of their gender. Where a person can be legally profiled as an assailant because of their gender. Excluding half a population from your discussion on human rights is never ok. It's sexism in it's purest form. Real feminism is about creating an egalitarian world, one where gender is inconsequential in any field.

 

[Sean Renaud]

LOL. I guess one day I'll meet a man who's been abused and I can still not make fun of after that. I don't know when that day is coming. I know I deserved to be slapped around quite a bit more than I've been. Though being quick and also being the one that everybody knew might just do something back spared me from much of what I deserved.

Still LJ and Once are right. We need a mens movement for the same reason whites need a white power movement. Them dames and minorities are catching up! If we don't do something quick we might have to treat them like people. Now what was that disease Micheal Jackson had? I need me some of that.

 

[CandiCame]

i dont see how this warrants a need for a men's rights movement. i dont really think you can compare this with the women's rights movement that continues to have a postive affect in generating social change in countries around the world.

It can, however, certainly be tied to 'tumblr' feminists and people who like to disassociate women's rights from human rights. To think that the criticisms of feminism in the states where it is geared towards first world problems experienced by a small segment of the population while ignoring larger problems of third world and war torn women, trangender women, lesbian women, and women of color- as well as all men, is to ignore the problems that retard the movement by causing dissonance within. Watch someone like "Feminist Frequency" who managed to raise over 100 thousand dollars to make a video in which she tries to make a pirate ninja wizard into a damsel in distress and tell me that that money couldn't have been used better in creating microloans through Project Heffer or Under the Sky. Tell me that it wouldn't have been better used creating a men's shelter since the vast majority of batter spouse shelters refuse to admit male victims, despite that the lowest number possible to attain for male victims is 40% of overall people seeking care. Or to create a campaign to create awareness that the law in many states legally defines rape as a crime only affecting female victims, meaning that males cannot even press charges against their rapists, even though they are equally as likely to be raped. Or to fund lawyers for the many fathers too poor to afford them who are simply trying to win custody from a known drug addict. Or, to fund education that makes sense, so that people will know that you're most likely to be raped by someone close to you, rather than considering all males potential rapists and creating a world of fear and a "rape schedule" that traumatizes our girls into thinking that their actions somehow contributed to their rape, rather than the actual cause, their rapist's mental illness.

There are a lot of valid critiques of the women's rights movement, and denying them does nothing to strengthen the movement.

 

[CandiCame]

LOL. I guess one day I'll meet a man who's been abused and I can still not make fun of after that. I don't know when that day is coming. I know I deserved to be slapped around quite a bit more than I've been. Though being quick and also being the one that everybody knew might just do something back spared me from much of what I deserved.

Still LJ and Once are right. We need a mens movement for the same reason whites need a white power movement. Them dames and minorities are catching up! If we don't do something quick we might have to treat them like people. Now what was that disease Micheal Jackson had? I need me some of that.

I'm not talking a "feminazi stole my ice cream" men's movement. I'm talking about feminism including men to the point that gender doesn't become the primary reason a judge awards custody to a drug addict. Where gender isn't master status but rather ability.

I'm all for women's rights, I don't want to make 30% more than my female coworkers who are performing the same amount of work. I do want paternity leave to help my spouse recuperate and spend time with my child. See the difference?

And rich white women spending $100,000 to bitch about the media they can afford while their sisters are systematically raped in "comfort camps" and have to give the children that result from that traumatic even poison water because they can't afford a purifier, all the while claiming solidarity, does tend to get to me.

 

[CandiCame]

LOL. I guess one day I'll meet a man who's been abused and I can still not make fun of after that. I don't know when that day is coming. I know I deserved to be slapped around quite a bit more than I've been. Though being quick and also being the one that everybody knew might just do something back spared me from much of what I deserved.

Still LJ and Once are right. We need a mens movement for the same reason whites need a white power movement. Them dames and minorities are catching up! If we don't do something quick we might have to treat them like people. Now what was that disease Micheal Jackson had? I need me some of that.

You do realize that that's the reason that men are afraid to come forward, right? Why the 40% is misleading because men won't report abuse. My ex tried to set my car on fire and left scratches in my face and back that required stitches. All that after she spent three years verbally and emotionally abusing me until I really thought that I was a useless piece of shit who was better off dead. Did I report any of it? No. You're my fucking friend and you'd make fun of me, so how serious do you think a goddamn judge would take that?

If I had done that to a woman they'd put me away.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I agree with things being "equal" (as if such a thing is possible) in custody.

I'll agree that paternity care should be equal to maternity (or even close) when men give birth and breast feed. Until then unless you're a single dad you simply don't rate. Fuck you that's why.

I don't even know what your last paragraph is about but I have this feeling it's on a long list of things that I'll care about after I get through the first half of the list.

 

[oodvibrations]

this is crazy. the original article did not report a serious offence that was reported from the 'victim'. yes - there should be groups that support men who have been through domestic violence - but making the jump to say there should be a "men's rights movements" is drawing a long bow.

 

[CandiCame]

I didn't read the first post. I actually have LJ on ignore. I'm just actively involved in the egalitarian movement and thought I'd jump in.

 

[CandiCame]

I agree with things being "equal" (as if such a thing is possible) in custody.

I'll agree that paternity care should be equal to maternity (or even close) when men give birth and breast feed. Until then unless you're a single dad you simply don't rate. Fuck you that's why.

I don't even know what your last paragraph is about but I have this feeling it's on a long list of things that I'll care about after I get through the first half of the list.

By that logic you shouldn't get maternity care when you adopt then, right?

 

[Boxlicker101]

I just googled "Domestic Abuse." I found plenty of hits, but every one I saw seemed to pretend that women were the only victims of abuse. The fact is that women probably commit more abuse of children than men do, and maybe even more total abuse.

 

[oodvibrations]

I just googled "Domestic Abuse." I found plenty of hits, but every one I saw seemed to pretend that women were the only victims of abuse. The fact is that women probably commit more abuse of children than men do, and maybe even more total abuse.

this is a ridiculous claim. so the lack of online documentation of male abuse leads you to assume that women actually commit more abuse then men? are you serious?

 

[CandiCame]

Actually, in the states at least, men and women are pretty equal on child abuse, women don't abuse more than men. We do lead the first world nations who are registered with the UN in child neglect though. So... though gender neutral that's still pretty not cool of us.

 

[CandiCame]

this is a ridiculous claim. so the lack of online documentation of male abuse leads you to assume that women actually commit more abuse then men? are you serious?

Check psychinfo for the various studies done. They all do tend to support the claim that male abuse is more underreported than female abuse because of what I mentioned earlier. Social conditioning lead judges and juries to believe that it doesn't exist so what's the point? Confronting your abuser is traumatic enough without having an entire courtroom tell you to 'man up' and take it or make fun of you for getting beat up by a girl. That's literally your only two options. There is no support.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Actually, in the states at least, men and women are pretty equal on child abuse, women don't abuse more than men. We do lead the first world nations who are registered with the UN in child neglect though. So... though gender neutral that's still pretty not cool of us.

This is interesting. I did find something on child abuse, issued by HHS. If you look through it, there is a segment on child abuse by men but nothing about abuse by women. What do you think of that?

https://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/statistics/can/stat_natl_state.cfm

I believe that women abuse children more often than men do, partly because they spend more time with children. Even so, HHS seems to think it never happens.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Setting my car on fire (or me) isn't "abuse" the first is vandalism, the second is attempted murder. You try to set me on fire and I will knock you out and then politely explain to the police that I Yogi told me only I could prevent forest fires after that dick Smokey stole my picnic basket.

Try scratching my eyes out, I'm bigger and stronger. The best case scenario is I'm still in a good mood after you try it. That's unlikely though.

And no, you shouldn't rate maternity leave (certainly not full maternity leave) if you adopt. You're not recovering, and that child isn't depending on you for sustenance. The only reason why I would let women who adopt get full maternity leave (and yes in theory I'd probably ultimately treat paternity leave the same way if life ever got to this point) is that I'm not a fan of making things more complex than they already are. So if they just said baby leave is X as long as there was no pressing need to change it I'd disagree with it quietly while working on things that needed fixing. There are usually enough of those to keep you busy rather indefinitely.

 

[CandiCame]

Setting my car on fire (or me) isn't "abuse" the first is vandalism, the second is attempted murder. You try to set me on fire and I will knock you out and then politely explain to the police that I Yogi told me only I could prevent forest fires after that dick Smokey stole my picnic basket.

Try scratching my eyes out, I'm bigger and stronger. The best case scenario is I'm still in a good mood after you try it. That's unlikely though.

And no, you shouldn't rate maternity leave (certainly not full maternity leave) if you adopt. You're not recovering, and that child isn't depending on you for sustenance. The only reason why I would let women who adopt get full maternity leave (and yes in theory I'd probably ultimately treat paternity leave the same way if life ever got to this point) is that I'm not a fan of making things more complex than they already are. So if they just said baby leave is X as long as there was no pressing need to change it I'd disagree with it quietly while working on things that needed fixing. There are usually enough of those to keep you busy rather indefinitely.

Yeah, but you're big and strong. I'm not. Our stout redneck women can hurt me.

And emotional/psychological abuse is totally a thing. Legally, even if you don't believe in the trauma that a terrible relationship can do, it's still legally a thing, and that takes physical strength right out of the equation on that count.

I kinda think that three months unpaid leave isn't too much to ask to care for a newborn, even if you have a dick. In Europe you get a year paid, and it's not gender based.

 

[oodvibrations]

Check psychinfo for the various studies done. They all do tend to support the claim that male abuse is more underreported than female abuse because of what I mentioned earlier. Social conditioning lead judges and juries to believe that it doesn't exist so what's the point? Confronting your abuser is traumatic enough without having an entire courtroom tell you to 'man up' and take it or make fun of you for getting beat up by a girl. That's literally your only two options. There is no support.

noone has said that male abuse is not underreported - i think everyone here would accept that to be the case.

i just think that when people make ridiculous claims like "women abuse men more than men abuse women" they should be pulled up on it.

 

[CandiCame]

noone has said that male abuse is not underreported - i think everyone here would accept that to be the case.

i just think that when people make ridiculous claims like "women abuse men more than men abuse women" they should be pulled up on it.

And that claim is supported. Men already make up 40% of abuse victims, but most studies show that less than half the men who are abused report it.

Having said that, it's not a fucking, "Who's life sucks more" contest. Men tend to cause more physical damage when they become abusive, because, as someone already stated, in the states, which is where I'm pulling my data (and specifically from the site psychinfo men tend to be stronger than women, and therefore capable of causing more damage when they do abuse.

But again, the point isn't to compare and contrast to see how many people are being abused and exactly how much damage is being done. The point is that people are people- sentient creatures capable of pain and none of us, regardless of gender, should be abused. My point in posting this is that feminism is doing precisely nothing to support male victims of abuse, and many self-proclaimed "feminists" see the entire issue as laughable. A few years back a man was assaulted to the point that his abuser literally was cutting off organs and the hosts of the View (a popular talk-show here in the states) were laughing about it. The fat that the media makes that distinction is unhealthy. Is a world where a man's traumatic genital mutilation is considered appropriate television joke fodder a world that you really want your sons growing up in? The link above was about a woman making a joke out of her abusive relationship and no one calling her out on it. I really hate to agree with LT- Jesus Christ you have no idea how bad I hate it- but that's unacceptable.

This is an issue that human rights advocates have every right to address. Is it the most important issue in our world today? Probably not. Aids is still a thing. Cancer is still a thing. People are still being lynched for their sexual orientation. Children are still dying from preventable disease. But it is worthy of discussion and these victims do not deserve to be the butt of jokes. They deserve the respect and care that they would be given had they been born with a different chromosome.

 

[oodvibrations]

And that claim is supported. Men already make up 40% of abuse victims, but most studies show that less than half the men who are abused report it.

Having said that, it's not a fucking, "Who's life sucks more" contest. Men tend to cause more physical damage when they become abusive, because, as someone already stated, in the states, which is where I'm pulling my data (and specifically from the site psychinfo men tend to be stronger than women, and therefore capable of causing more damage when they do abuse.

But again, the point isn't to compare and contrast to see how many people are being abused and exactly how much damage is being done. The point is that people are people- sentient creatures capable of pain and none of us, regardless of gender, should be abused. My point in posting this is that feminism is doing precisely nothing to support male victims of abuse, and many self-proclaimed "feminists" see the entire issue as laughable. A few years back a man was assaulted to the point that his abuser literally was cutting off organs and the hosts of the View (a popular talk-show here in the states) were laughing about it. The fat that the media makes that distinction is unhealthy. Is a world where a man's traumatic genital mutilation is considered appropriate television joke fodder a world that you really want your sons growing up in? The link above was about a woman making a joke out of her abusive relationship and no one calling her out on it. I really hate to agree with LT- Jesus Christ you have no idea how bad I hate it- but that's unacceptable.

This is an issue that human rights advocates have every right to address. Is it the most important issue in our world today? Probably not. Aids is still a thing. Cancer is still a thing. People are still being lynched for their sexual orientation. Children are still dying from preventable disease. But it is worthy of discussion and these victims do not deserve to be the butt of jokes. They deserve the respect and care that they would be given had they been born with a different chromosome.

yes but i don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on any of these things.

you still have not justified how a men's rights movement is necessary.

 

[CandiCame]

yes but i don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on any of these things.

you still have not justified how a men's rights movement is necessary.

Because I don't think it is. Anymore than I think a women's rights movement is necessary. Both should be covered under human rights. You're getting paid 30% less than your coworker for the same job? That's not right regardless of gender. You're being gang raped by an invading army in a 'comfort' station? That's not right regardless of gender. You're losing custody of your child to a neglectful drug addict? That's not right, regardless of gender. You're twice as likely to be physically assaulted, but no one gives a shit? That's not right regardless of gender.

Women's rights, or men's rights groups in this day and age tend to do very little other than create victim complexes. Modern feminists seem to be more interested in bringing down the porn industry and bitching about video games than they do helping women who are being systematically raped in third world countries- that's done by people like the red cross- a humanitarian establishment. I would go a little farther to say that at least men's rights groups are fighting for less retarded things, I mean, we managed to get a law passed that requires restuarnats and stores to provide men's room's with baby changing tables, but they also aren't doing much to stop things like the fact that men are twice as likely as women to be the victims of violent crimes, or that little boys are discouraged from reading and education in favor of sports (the topic of my college thesis). These misguided movements would do better to work together, toward an egalitarian society. So until feminism pulls it's head out of it's ass and remembers it's original goal of gender equality, then egalitarian groups are necessary. Feminism has gone so far from it's original cause that you're hard pressed to find a woman that wants to associate with them, and instead, those women tend to support causes like the red cross, like Project Heifer, like One Sky, who have no gender basis.

As long as you're caught up in this kindergarten "girls are better than boys" thing that you've got going on, you aren't going to see the problems that face your brothers as clearly as the problems that face your sisters. But that's fine, they still need all the help they can get. Real feminists don't bother me. It's the ones who bitch about stupid shit while others struggle in poverty and death that bother me.

 

[CandiCame]

yes but i don't think anyone is disagreeing with you on any of these things.

you still have not justified how a men's rights movement is necessary.

Just to address this a little more directly... How an you agree that these men need to be advocated for, yet disagree that there needs to be a movement toward this avocation? Is there some kind of language barrier? Is it just a problem of semantics at this point? You agree that the society is not right and needs to change, yet are opposed to a social movement to advocate that change. I'm not sure what you're really saying.

 

[oodvibrations]

Just to address this a little more directly... How an you agree that these men need to be advocated for, yet disagree that there needs to be a movement toward this avocation? Is there some kind of language barrier? Is it just a problem of semantics at this point? You agree that the society is not right and needs to change, yet are opposed to a social movement to advocate that change. I'm not sure what you're really saying.

i am simply saying that none of this has anything to do with a men's right movevent. there needs to be promotion for support for men in domestic violence - but that has nothing to do with with a men's rights movement. and also the original article that was posted was pretty trivial.

 

[CandiCame]

i am simply saying that none of this has anything to do with a men's right movevent. there needs to be promotion for support for men in domestic violence - but that has nothing to do with with a men's rights movement. and also the original article that was posted was pretty trivial.

...It has literally everything to do with the men's rights movement. It's a huge issue within the men's rights movement- I'm active in the men's rights movement. That's extremely insulting. At this point I have to wonder if I've been troll-baited.

And the fact that you think that trivializing domestic violence is trivial... baffles me. This chick was bragging about slapping her partner around. If those genders were reversed, would you still consider it trivial? Would you still consider it a goddamn joke? Even if it didn't hurt you think that the emotional trauma of living in a relationship where your partner thinks so little of you that slapping you repeatedly is a goddamn joke to them is trivial!?

You really don't see how fucking insulting that is? What if that was your fucking son?