The meaning of Masochist or Masochism

[ShiningEyes]

Trying to find the right meanings for a friend of mine. Can anyone help me out? The last time I was on, which has been months and months ago, I thought I saw a thread or link to definitions.
It's appreciated greatly!!!

 

[s'lara]

From Merriam-Webster's

1 : a sexual perversion characterized by pleasure in being subjected to pain or humiliation especially by a love object -- compare SADISM
2 : pleasure in being abused or dominated : a taste for suffering

(love that number 2 ... a taste for suffering. Sounds so pretty-like when said that way huh? note the "perversion" and "abused" descriptors. Number 2 is also wrong. i know a few masochists who don't like to be dominated at all ... just hurt.

Here are a couple of links from the Library that are interesting reads.

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?threadid=75863&highlight=maso*

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?threadid=193743&highlight=dictionary

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=111096

Good luck to you.

lara

 

[Seattle Zack]

The word itself, as coined by Dr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing in “Psychopathia Sexualis,” is defined as "the opposite of sadism -- while the later is the desire to cause pain and use force, the former is the wish to suffer pain and be subjected to force."

That definition may be a little dated today, of course.

Just as "sadism" is derived from the Marquis de Sade, "masochism" is derived from Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who wrote the novel “Venus in Furs” which chronicles a masochistic relationship. The novel is based on real events from the author’s life.

 

[ownedsubgal]

i define masochism, or rather a masochist, as one who craves/needs pain. whether for the purpose of physical pleasure, or to satisfy emotional/psychological drives. i'm a masochist, but i don't "get off" from pain. it doesn't arouse me sexually, generally. sometimes i downright hate it, at least physically. but i need it and crave it and go crazy without it. i need to suffer, to be abused in that way. so i guess the "taste for suffering" definition fits me. and not just physical suffering...i crave pain in many different forms. but, when most use the term masochist i think they're referring to someone who gets sexual pleasure from physical pain.

 

[MissTaken]

The word itself, as coined by Dr. Richard von Krafft-Ebing in “Psychopathia Sexualis,” is defined as "the opposite of sadism -- while the later is the desire to cause pain and use force, the former is the wish to suffer pain and be subjected to force."

That definition may be a little dated today, of course.

Just as "sadism" is derived from the Marquis de Sade, "masochism" is derived from Leopold von Sacher-Masoch, who wrote the novel “Venus in Furs” which chronicles a masochistic relationship. The novel is based on real events from the author’s life.

I am reading this novel now.

Excellent!

 

[AvaAdore]

masochist: deny me!
sadist: no!

 

[Pure]

Masochism:

KEbbing: the opposite of sadism

There have been good discussions of whether this is the case, and what, if anything it means: Is the personality of Masoch, in real life or as protagonist in his novels, really 'opposite' to Sade's.

In accord with what lara posted, the issue of 'pain' is not to be assumed. As I recall from Masoch's writings, he didn't want needles so much as being/feeling owned, demeaned. At any rate, as indicated by osg, there may be vastly differnt types of 'masochism.'

 

[MissTaken]

Yes, in the novel, Venus in Furs, there are only fleeting references to whippings and the impact felt was primarily emotional.

Now, I am just finishing the book and can only speak to what I have read, but his craving is for the torture of humiliation. He begins the tale by idolizing her and ultimately begging her to take him as her slave. She agrees and takes him as her own slave in every sense of the word. His quarters are separater from hers and are less comfortable. He is afforded no privilege as her slave and is made to cohort with other servants.

Each time she uses him, flaunts other lovers, or shuns him he cries out how much he loves her and how this increases his love. The pain of being shunned, used, humiliated fuels his enamourment and craving for her.

Interesting, Pure, that I thought of you when reading this book. Part of their contract states that he will give up his life for her as she wanted it to be clear that this wasn't a whim for either of them, nor was it simple role playing.

So yes, a maso can crave emotional pain as well as or instead of physical pain. If gregor, the character in question, was fulfilled by serving in a loving relationship full of nurturing and gratitude from his Goddess, it wouldn't necessarily be masochistic. However, in this situation, it is the pain he craves, that fulfills his existence and love for her.

 

[MissTaken]

Another thought: by nature of he definition, "The opposite of Sadism", that would imply a relationship between Sadism and masochism. However, a Sadist doesn't need a maso and a maso doesn't need a maso.

In fact, couldn't a sub fulfill the needs of a Dominant maso?


Now, I am babbling and am going for more coffee.

 

[Pure]

Hi Miss T,

On re reading, I do see some whipping, though he takes it out of loyalty and fealty.

I just read a climactic scene where he finds she loves another, and gets jealous, and wants her for himself (in marriage). They fight, and she essentially says, 'if you're my slave, maybe i'll make you the man's whipping boy.' He them storms off and away from her leaving a note saying he expected humiliation, but can't take her 'vulgarity'.

Is this is masochism, it seems to have to do with manipulation and control so as to obtain coldness and humiliation *that may be construed as somehow connected to the mistress's caring*.

Further, it's not clear at all that I'd label her a sadist, or 'opposite'.
1) she has a kind of devotion to him, and eventually talks of marrying him, now that he's proven he's a man, by being jealous.
2) she is often merely capricious--does as she pleases, in some cases ignoring him.
3) occasionally she delights in cruelty as in a lash to his face; yet it does NOT seem arousing: it's the delight of an arbitrary and capricious figure, tripping on the power.

In all, the Masochist's **Indulger** (Wanda), if I may call the other member of the pair that, is quite 'bound' to the masochist; in a way controlled. The indulger is fantasied as loving, and has to do things occasionally to support that--e.g., Wanda proclaims her love to Severin. AND, in the scene described, the Indulger may NOT act in ways that shatter the fantasy.

Final note: Wanda is not much like Reage's Sir Stephen or like Sade's Juliette; neither of these seems much 'bound' to any sexual object. SS indeed shows some attachment once or twice, but demands that O show she doesn't need him around, submit to others etc.

J.

 

[Netzach]

Ok, no 19th century chick is going to procliam her love of administering the lash, unless she's a whore or a Mistress of the Martinet, as some of my favorite characters in the salacious "Beautiful Flagellants of New York" (anon.) are.

But she keeps doing it! Wanda keeps beating him with her whip, scorning him, tormenting him. Oh, the cruelty.

Is it boredom alone?
Is is sheer sacrifice for her depraved lover?

Doubt it.



Beautiful Flagellants is great 19th c porn with no literary pretentions whatsoever. The hero is a jolly maso apt to declaim "I say she gave me a right whipping, my cheeks flaring like embers, and I placed a kiss on her dainty shoe buttons." He basically whores his way through Old New York, and meets a very prim, correctional Mistress of the Birch along the way, who indulges in no sexual stuff whatsoever yet captures his imagination solely through her repressed, calculating beatings. I have a fondness for her. It's wonderfully joyous quid-pro-quo spanko pleasure, not in the least dark or Mistress/slavey.

I actually like my porn to be buoyant, this has all the charm and lust for life that Carol Queen does.

 

[Quint]

Masochism: to engage in a serious relationship with a partner that does NOT enjoy inflicting pain/humiliation/domination upon the willing victim.

Me, I like to get hit.

 

[Pure]

That's exactly the problem, isn't it Quint.? One kind of 'masochist', like Masoch himself, really wants the *ties*, the ties being affirmed (made evident), at least from time to time, etc. In short, love and committment.

Yet this doesn't quite fit a definition in terms of 'wants pain' or 'wants humiliation', since those, in one sense, could be maximized by an indifferent or capricious person who does some nasties and walks away.

One sees in the Wanda figure a little of this, but since she's a fantasy, Masoch, I would say, cant really make her essentially this (unconnected, capricious) way, for then he wouldn't get off. He makes her from time to time this way, since, as I've stated in the second para, that's the 'logical' and 'terrifying' possibility; it has to be invoked at the same time it's denied.