The Many Shades of Kink

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

This is a kink question (or maybe a fetish question, but I don't know which applies) that I've been wondering about ever since I got a few 'well-measured', 'dignified' and 'thoughtful' comments on a particular scene.

Some readers seemed to believe it involved cuckholding.

The story was tagged voyeur, because to my mind watching two people have sex is first and foremost an exhibitionist/voyeurism event, unless there's some form of humiliation or coercion involved. Even without those two elements, I think it's fair for the watcher to have some feelings of jealousy or envy without it becoming a cucking situation.

So, that's my opinion, but what is it that really distinguishes one from the other? Maybe an author's perspective will never match what a reader experiences. And, with so many kinks out there, I don't pretend to fully understand the finer detail of everything I throw into a story. Still, it would be cool to hear some different opinions on this and maybe some other close but different kinks/scenarios...

Have you ever veered into unintended territory or been caught out by a nuance you weren't aware of?

 

[jaF0]

Voyeurs are those watching.

Exhibitionists are those being watched.

They can easily flip roles in group or orgy situations.


What was your question?

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

Voyeurs are those watching.

Exhibitionists are those being watched.

They can easily flip roles in group or orgy situations.


What was your question?

Oops, I buried the lead in my post but edited it quickly to make up for the mistake (I hope).

Basically, I wrote what I considered to be voyeurism and some felt it was cuckholding. I was wondering what defines the difference because while they share a common feel, they're definitely distinct. Right?

 

[ElectricBlue]

Have you ever veered into unintended territory or been caught out by a nuance you weren't aware of?

Is this the question, or the contemplation about voyeurism and exhibitionism? I'm a bit confused what you're asking.

Cuckolding never enters my sexual world, so I can't comment about that.

 

[NotWise]

Oops, I buried the lead in my post but edited it quickly to make up for the mistake (I hope).

Basically, I wrote what I considered to be voyeurism and some felt it was cuckholding. I was wondering what defines the difference because while they share a common feel, they're definitely distinct. Right?

Voyeurism doesn't imply a relationship between the watcher and the watched. Cuckoldry requires a relationship, but doesn't imply that anyone is watching.

If your scene involves a man watching his wife or girlfriend have sex with another man, I think most readers are going to call that cuckoldry.

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

Is this the question, or the contemplation about voyeurism and exhibitionism? I'm a bit confused what you're asking.

Cuckolding never enters my sexual world, so I can't comment about that.

Yeah, sorry about that. I seem to be terrible at phrasing today.

I suppose the one leads to the other. The commonality between cuckolding and voyeurism is watching, and I'm wondering when one becomes the other...

I think it applies to other kinks as well (when does cross-dressing becomes sissification or choking become breath-play, for example), which is probably more interesting and I'm more curious about. Like you, cuckholding doesn't enter my world, though according to some there's been cuckolding in two of my stories. There are probably a million places where a nuance like that can get lost.

The first question is specific to cuckholding vs voyeurism, the second is broader and I'm wondering if other writers have ever veered into a kink they weren't intending to include (perhaps not even knowing about the existence of such a kink as they wrote).

 

[ElectricBlue]

The first question is specific to cuckholding vs voyeurism, the second is broader and I'm wondering if other writers have ever veered into a kink they weren't intending to include (perhaps not even knowing about the existence of such a kink as they wrote).

Gotcha. .

Re cuckolding vs voyeurism, no comment other than, in my mind, they're quite separate. I've got voyeuristic stories that have got nothing to do with cuckoldry - cuckoldry does nothing for me erotically, so I'd never write about it.

As for the second question - nope. I set out with something pretty clear in mind, and go there intentionally.

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

Voyeurism doesn't imply a relationship between the watcher and the watched. Cuckoldry requires a relationship, but doesn't imply that anyone is watching.

If your scene involves a man watching his wife or girlfriend have sex with another man, I think most readers are going to call that cuckoldry.

That's really interesting.

I guess, in my mind, I always associated cuckoldy with the husband/boyfriend being tied down and watching. My view comes from porn, I suppose, and probably isn't the best frame of reference.

That relationship distinction is much more vital, now that you mention it.

 

[jaF0]

This is a big part of why I don't care for labels, titles and to an extent categories.

So, one partner likes to watch the other with a third, or more. Maybe participate at some point, maybe not. Why do any of the parties need special titles or nicknames?

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

I'm writing a scene right now, and its the first time I've made the race of the characters apparent. White guy, black woman... So, that's interracial in porn-speak, right? There's nothing special about the scene other than the difference in race, i.e. no 'raceplay' but I'll definitely tag it interracial because I know some people look specifically for that... Still, it's another distinction I don't understand and will probably 'mess up' in the writing for some portion of the audience who care about that kink/fetish.

Like Jaf0 says, it's better not to think about the labels but I've become so much more interested by these distinctions since I started writing. I guess it's because I've always been a researcher first and foremost.

 

[Dakota_North]

My take on these is as follows.

Voyeurism is someone watching, no relationship or knowledge of any of the involved parties required.

Cuckolding involves a woman having a sexual relationship with someone other than her spouse/boyfriend/whatever. He may know or not know, may be voyeuring, may be joining in. Lots of different aspects to it.

 

[SimonDoom]

I re-read it and I still don't understand the original question. What exactly is going on in the scene? A husband watching his wife and another man have sex? You have to be precise if you want an answer.

In terms of labeling and categories, the best thing you can do is familiarize yourself with the Literotica landscape, put aside your own ideas about what seems right and logical, and just go with it. The purpose of tags and labels and categories is not to be conceptually correct but to get the right eyeballs on your story.

A story about a man watching his wife having sex with another man has multiple kink aspects, including especially cuckoldry, hot wifery, and voyeurism/exhibitionism. If the sex involves other elements, other kinks could be involved, like interracial, or anal, or group sex, or whatever. The most logical match is to put a story like that in Loving Wives, but that category has become so toxic and polarized that some, like me, put stories of this type elsewhere. I find Exhibitionism and Voyeur to be very receptive to these types of stories. But if the story is about a man watching his white wife having sex with a black man, you could put that in Interracial and it would be well received, probably.

Read this article, what I consider the Bible regarding Literotica categories and what goes where: https://literotica.com/s/love-your-readers-categories

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

I re-read it and I still don't understand the original question. What exactly is going on in the scene? A husband watching his wife and another man have sex? You have to be precise if you want an answer.

It happened in an I/T story where the MC and his sister were fooling around covertly in their other sibling's room. They hear the other sibling approach but only the MC manages to hide away. Then, he witnesses sex between the other two (eventually joining in). With the input I've gotten now, I could definitely see how that tends to cuckoldry because there was only one established relationship and that was between the MC and first sibling. At the time, I thought of it as a 'brief moment of voyeurism' and was kinda surprised.

Like I said, for me cuckoldry is something I very much associated with 'forcing' the husband/partner to be confronted with the cheating and, in my mind, that didn't apply to covert or accidental viewing. However, it makes a lot more sense if its framed in terms of the relationships at play, which I considered secondary at the time.

Thanks for the link!

 

[SimonDoom]

It happened in an I/T story where the MC and his sister were fooling around covertly in their other sibling's room. They hear the other sibling approach but only the MC manages to hide away. Then, he witnesses sex between the other two (eventually joining in). With the input I've gotten now, I could definitely see how that tends to cuckoldry because there was only one established relationship and that was between the MC and first sibling. At the time, I thought of it as a 'brief moment of voyeurism' and was kinda surprised.

Like I said, for me cuckoldry is something I very much associated with 'forcing' the husband/partner to be confronted with the cheating and, in my mind, that didn't apply to covert or accidental viewing. However, it makes a lot more sense if its framed in terms of the relationships at play, which I considered secondary at the time.

Thanks for the link!

Cuckoldry involves a husband and wife, not siblings. There are some incest readers who think of incest relationships as being akin to husband-wife, but I think that's a small minority. The situation you described is not one of cuckoldry. It involves incest and voyeurism.

With incest, the kink is incest. Everything else is secondary. If you read the article I linked to, you'll see it describes incest as a "trump" category, which means if a story has incest almost always you publish it in the incest category. It's a very popular, but also polarizing, category.

 

[NotWise]

Like I said, for me cuckoldry is something I very much associated with 'forcing' the husband/partner to be confronted with the cheating and, in my mind, that didn't apply to covert or accidental viewing. However, it makes a lot more sense if its framed in terms of the relationships at play, which I considered secondary at the time.

Originally, a cuckold was a man who's wife was having an affair. He didn't even have to know about it. The Merriam-Webster definition is "a man who's wife is unfaithful." The case where the man watches--whether forced or not--is mostly a porn trope.

 

[jaF0]

However, in this day and age, especially here on Lit, we should probably drop the husband/wife or even she/he bit and just go with committed couple.



A she in a committed relationship can be 'cucked' (I hate that term) by her partner with either another she, he or (insert preferred term here).

 

[KeithD]

Cuckoldry involves a husband and wife, not siblings.

Agree, and after much effort to pin down what the question here is, it ends up with cuckoldry not being at issue here at all.

The reality of the thrust of this thread, I think, is that the story can be located in one category only, the editor reserves the right of categorization, and there is a hierarchy in general of placement here. If incest and voyeur are involved (as was eventually, I think, established here), Laurel is most likely to put the story in Incest/Taboo. If cuckoldry and voyeur are involved, Laurel is most likely to put the story in Loving Wives (although this isn't as established as for a story with incest in it). That's the only real meaningful discussion to have here on category placement--where it's likely to be categorized here. The relative nature of kinks doesn't seem to have any more meaning at Literotica than what category it will be placed in at Literotica.

 

[MillieDynamite]

However, in this day and age, especially here on Lit, we should probably drop the husband/wife or even she/he bit and just go with committed couple.



A she in a committed relationship can be 'cucked' (I hate that term) by her partner with either another she, he or (insert preferred term here).

I'd never cuck Jo, and she'd, most likely, never cheat on me.

 

[ScrappyPaperDoodler]

Agree, and after much effort to pin down what the question here is, it ends up with cuckoldry not being at issue here at all.

The reality of the thrust of this thread, I think, is that the story can be located in one category only, the editor reserves the right of categorization, and there is a hierarchy in general of placement here. If incest and voyeur are involved (as was eventually, I think, established here), Laurel is most likely to put the story in Incest/Taboo. If cuckoldry and voyeur are involved, Laurel is most likely to put the story in Loving Wives (although this isn't as established as for a story with incest in it). That's the only real meaningful discussion to have here on category placement--where it's likely to be categorized here. The relative nature of kinks doesn't seem to have any more meaning at Literotica than what category it will be placed in at Literotica.

Definitely. Initially, I didn’t think of it as a category question, so I didn’t specify. Reframing it solves the question.

 

[TadOverdon]

Some readers appear to have tags confused with government-mandated consumer safety labeling. They want to know that the guy ejaculating in his partner's mouth hasn't been eating peanuts or gluten, and if they encounter an unwelcome kink, well then, Someone Must Answer.

 

[gordo12]

Oops, I buried the lead in my post but edited it quickly to make up for the mistake (I hope).

Basically, I wrote what I considered to be voyeurism and some felt it was cuckholding. I was wondering what defines the difference because while they share a common feel, they're definitely distinct. Right?

When it comes to the readers, I would pay no attention to labels they ascribe to any sex act. The cuck tag has evolved over the last couple of decades. For example, swingers got pissed off when trolls starting applying it to them back in the early 2000s.

Most readers have little idea what the true definition is, so ignore them.

The dictionary definitions have also evolved, and current definitions are not what they were twenty years ago.

 

[Healwsteel]

Some readers appear to have tags confused with government-mandated consumer safety labeling. They want to know that the guy ejaculating in his partner's mouth hasn't been eating peanuts or gluten, and if they encounter an unwelcome kink, well then, Someone Must Answer.

ROFL

So well said.

 

[gunhilltrain]

When it comes to the readers, I would pay no attention to labels they ascribe to any sex act. The cuck tag has evolved over the last couple of decades. For example, swingers got pissed off when trolls starting applying it to them back in the early 2000s.

Most readers have little idea what the true definition is, so ignore them.

The dictionary definitions have also evolved, and current definitions are not what they were twenty years ago.

Since the tags are created by the authors (another site limits them to pre-approved tags), they could mean anything.

I've had stories set in New Jersey for which I've used the name of the state as a tag. I have room for ten tags, so I might as well fill it up if possible. Not sure there is anything erotically charged about the Garden State. But maybe Tom Waits thought so; "I'm in love with a Jersey girl."

 

[yowser]

I've had stories set in New Jersey for which I've used the name of the state as a tag. I have room for ten tags, so I might as well fill it up if possible. Not sure there is anything erotically charged about the Garden State. But maybe Tom Waits thought so; "I'm in love with a Jersey girl."

Fragment from a John Gorka song:

New Jersey people, they will surprise you
'Cause they're not expected to do too much
They will try harder, they may go further
'Cause they never think that they are good enough

I'm from New Jersey, I don't expect too much
If the world ended today, I would adjust