The line between BDSM and Fetish

[ShelbyDawn57]

I'm working on a new story involving bondage and a little coercion as the FMC is introducing MMC to her 'hobby.'
The main story line is the relationship between the FMC and MMC.
So, my question is; how far does bondage have to go to slip from Fetish to BDSM?
My original thought was BDSM for this story, but it's going to be very light on the SM, which makes me think Fetish.

Since I don't usually post to either category, I figured I'd ask the experts.


(I do have this fantasy about being tied up and used, though.)

 

[Bamagan]

From the perspective of the 'gatekeepers' in the BDSM category who object to certain depictions of the 'lifestyle' or the 'scene', I don't think it's so much a question of 'how much?' as of 'what kind?' of BDSM. Mild coercion of reluctance may be fine, if it's in the context of someone's introduction to BDSM (for example), but the closer it veers to non-consent, the more pushback you're likely to see. Also, while there's plenty of femdom there, I think most of the stuff that veers toward cruelty, emasculation, and the like finds a more receptive audience in Fetish.
So, without knowing more, it's hard to advise. Nothing you said makes it sound like it would generate exceptional outrage in BDSM, but the devil lurks in the details.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Bondage and sex is fine for BDSM, without any SM. But if the story is more about the bondage and less about sexy power play, like you get into details of the techniques, or the restrainer is clearly getting off on the restraint more than their naked partner, then Fetish may be more appropriate.

Lit BDSM likes male doms and female subs and not too much degradation. Beyond that, stories can do fine in BDSM - my Accredited Sadist is pure SM without d/s, but if it's got any of piss play, enemas, homosexuality, focus on fetishes like leather, latex or feet, medical play, or is hardcore to the point of blood or ongoing negative consequences, the Fetish readers are better at checking tags and politely avoiding what they don't like. I suspect most of the audience are the same people.

If the detail of the bondage is the story, then maybe Fetish, but otherwise it'll likely be fine in BDSM. Just give it a good description as readers don't read tags.

 

[SimonDoom]

I wouldn't describe myself as an expert, but my hightest-rated story is in BDSM. The essence of the category isn't bondage, or whips. or pain, or devices. It's power exchange. One partner assuming the role of dominant, the other assuming the role of submissive. The mechanics are secondary.

If the emphasis of your story is the relationship, then it's probably BDSM. Fetish is less relationship-focused than thing-focused.

Just for reference, my story, In The Hallway, is extremely "light" BDSM, with no bondage, no sadism, and no masochism, and it's done very well because it plays up the power exchange angle, and readers seem to like the way it did it.

 

[KeithD]

The line between fetish and BDSM I would draw in terms of bondage would be whether/whether not it included pain or otherwise taxing acts.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I'm working on a new story involving bondage and a little coercion as the FMC is introducing MMC to her 'hobby.'
The main story line is the relationship between the FMC and MMC.
So, my question is; how far does bondage have to go to slip from Fetish to BDSM?
My original thought was BDSM for this story, but it's going to be very light on the SM, which makes me think Fetish.

Since I don't usually post to either category, I figured I'd ask the experts.


(I do have this fantasy about being tied up and used, though.)

I read something somewhere about distinction between kink and perversion...
Using a feather duster is kinky.
Using the un-plucked chicken is downright perverted...
Not sure that will help in this case...
Sorry, hope it doesn't derail your search for information.

Cagivagurl

 

[TarnishedPenny]

In the end, it’s entirely your choice. BDSM and Fetish both are popular and both can scare people off, if popularity is key. Without knowing more, my call would be the former, but it’s your story.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

if the fetish is bondage, then B-dsm.

 

[lovecraft68]

It can fit in either, but on this site?

Woman on top pisses off the knuckledraggers that roam this site, and over the years BDSM has become more and more "Bitch gets hers" and femdom, although a large part of real life BDSM, does not get the welcome in BDSM here it did in the past.

Put it in fetish where the male readership is composed of actual men who don't let their cold male insecurity get in their way of enjoying a fantasy. Not sure which readership is bigger, one of the state junkies can chime in on that, but Fetish will get you a better score and recpetion.

 

[AG31]

From the perspective of the 'gatekeepers' in the BDSM category who object to certain depictions of the 'lifestyle' or the 'scene', I don't think it's so much a question of 'how much?' as of 'what kind?' of BDSM. Mild coercion of reluctance may be fine, if it's in the context of someone's introduction to BDSM (for example), but the closer it veers to non-consent, the more pushback you're likely to see. Also, while there's plenty of femdom there, I think most of the stuff that veers toward cruelty, emasculation, and the like finds a more receptive audience in Fetish.
So, without knowing more, it's hard to advise. Nothing you said makes it sound like it would generate exceptional outrage in BDSM, but the devil lurks in the details.

I don't think we should pay attention to gatekeepers. But I'm not one with knowledge of what categories attract what readers. I regularly check BDSM but have no regard for "the lifestyle," for what it's worth.

 

[AG31]

The line between fetish and BDSM I would draw in terms of bondage would be whether/whether not it included pain or otherwise taxing acts.

So which category would include "pain or otherwise taxing acts?"

 

[AlinaX]

I've posted twice to BDSM and both times were woman-on-top, so to speak. Back in 2014 & 2016, if that makes a difference. The more sincere/erotic one was received well enough; the other was only incidentally about the sex.

 

[Bamagan]

I don't think we should pay attention to gatekeepers. But I'm not one with knowledge of what categories attract what readers. I regularly check BDSM but have no regard for "the lifestyle," for what it's worth.

It makes little difference to me personally whether people ignore them or adopt a policy of appeasement. But, when an author says they're trying to decide where to post their story to minimize the number of angry responses to it*, knowing which audiences have vocal and easily triggered contingents (and what triggers them) is potentially relevant information for avoiding a minefield.

*Edit: Or maximize the chances of finding the most receptive possible audience, which is almost-but-not-quite the same thing.

 

[SimonDoom]

My extra two cents: People overthink these things. Categories should be regarded as "big tents" rather than as exclusive clubs with strict requirements. BDSM encompasses a range of different kinds of activities: bondage, dominance-submission, sadism, masochism. There is absolutely no requirement that a BDSM story must include all the elements, or that it must have one particular one of them. Having any of these elements, and no others, qualifies it for this category.

My BDSM story had no whips, no sadism, no masochism, no bondage, no pain. It was based on a man and a woman choosing to engage in a dominance-submission game. The comments were very favorable. It has a 4.81, my highest score, and 111,000 views.

If I had to boil down the erotic appeal to one thing, I think it's the psychological aspect of choosing to dominate or to submit. But that's at best a very rough and not always accurate description. Some readers just like reading about somebody being whipped without regard for the psychology of it.

Yes, you'll find people in various categories who regard themselves as "gatekeepers" and who pursue their roles with the self-righteousness and annoying habits of high school hallway monitors. I ignore those people, and I recommend everyone else do the same.

If you are still curious, I would recommend using the Site's "search" function. Search for stories with elements similar to your own, look up which categories they're published in, and see how they've done. I do this kind of research from time to time for my stories and I find it to be much more helpful than consulting the members of this forum because advice is so subjective and isn't necessarily pitched to what you're specifically looking for.

 

[SimonDoom]

It makes little difference to me personally whether people ignore them or adopt a policy of appeasement. But, when an author says they're trying to decide where to post their story to minimize the number of angry responses to it, knowing which audiences have vocal and easily triggered contingents (and what triggers them) is potentially relevant information for avoiding a minefield.

OK, but be careful about your assumptions. The OP didn't say they wanted to minimize angry responses. If that's what someone wants to do, then they're entitled to that view and to take whatever strategy will advance their purposes. But I think there's a risk of missing out with that strategy. I prefer a strategy of maximizing reward to minimizing risk. I'd rather have 10,000 positive readers and 500 negative ones than 1,000 positive readers and 10 negative ones. Others may have a different view, but I think sometimes people don't consider that this is an alternative way to think.

 

[Bamagan]

OK, but be careful about your assumptions. The OP didn't say they wanted to minimize angry responses. If that's what someone wants to do, then they're entitled to that view and to take whatever strategy will advance their purposes. But I think there's a risk of missing out with that strategy. I prefer a strategy of maximizing reward to minimizing risk. I'd rather have 10,000 positive readers and 500 negative ones than 1,000 positive readers and 10 negative ones. Others may have a different view, but I think sometimes people don't consider that this is an alternative way to think.

As long as we're talking about mini-maxing, the worst likely result if my interpretation of the OPs intent is way off base is that I give them advice which is useless for their actual concerns. So I may as well speak up, even if my assumptions are wrong.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[SimonDoom]

As long as we're talking about mini-maxing, the worst likely result if my interpretation of the OPs intent is way off base is that I give them advice which is useless for their actual concerns. So I may as well speak up, even if my assumptions are wrong.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Absolutely. They can decide if you are speaking to their intention. I'm suggesting there's another way of thinking. I don't want people who post questions like these in this forum to get the idea that there's an "orthodox" way of thinking that everybody is supposed to follow.

 

[Bamagan]

Absolutely. They can decide if you are speaking to their intention. I'm suggesting there's another way of thinking. I don't want people who post questions like these in this forum to get the idea that there's an "orthodox" way of thinking that everybody is supposed to follow.

Considering that any request for advice will usually get ten wildly different honest answers, ten more that are scorn disguised as advice, at least four semi-relevant image responses, and a 50% chance of pun-riffing, I don't think there's much chance of anyone accidentally believing in an orthodoxy (other than chaos, perhaps).

 

[Britva415]

People who believe in an orthodoxy are usually quite deliberate about it

 

[KeithD]

So which category would include "pain or otherwise taxing acts?"

BDSM.

 

[RetroFan]

With BDSM, there seems to be a level of planning that seems to make things less random and therefore less interesting to write about.

Of course, there can be planning in other categories too like three swinging married couples - one Australian, one English and the other American deliberately staying together at an Air B & B in Sydney and swapping partners, but there is some randomness and in general a lack of planning in the sex acts that might take place.

But in a BDSM scenario - a male dominant who enjoys tying up his female submissive and spanking her and she in turn enjoys being tied up and spanked - its all so pre-planned that it becomes too predictable and therefore not very erotic.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

With BDSM, there seems to be a level of planning that seems to make things less random and therefore less interesting to write about.

That word 'seems' is sure doing some heavy lifting!

But in a BDSM scenario - a male dominant who enjoys tying up his female submissive and spanking her and she in turn enjoys being tied up and spanked - its all so pre-planned that it becomes too predictable and therefore not very erotic.

By that measure, stories that have two characters who end up having sex (if heterosexual, it'll be of the PIV variety) must be predictable too? Or any characters who already know each other? Even two characters meeting, but it's a story on Lit so we know they'll have sex? I've certainly read a lot of predictable stories along those lines.

You could have a story in a BDSM club or at a munch where A likes the look of B, asks what they're into, suggests trying an activity that B agrees to, off they go. Or your male dom has a female partner who hasn't been tied up or spanked before. Yes, that's practically a cliche on Lit, her finding out she loves it, but put some nerves or hesitation in and you have a story. I'm actually working on a story where the sub concludes SM isn't for them, thank you, which may be more original but doesn't in itself make the story better.

Like with any sex story, it's what's going on in the characters' heads that's interesting.

 

[SimonDoom]

With BDSM, there seems to be a level of planning that seems to make things less random and therefore less interesting to write about.

Of course, there can be planning in other categories too like three swinging married couples - one Australian, one English and the other American deliberately staying together at an Air B & B in Sydney and swapping partners, but there is some randomness and in general a lack of planning in the sex acts that might take place.

But in a BDSM scenario - a male dominant who enjoys tying up his female submissive and spanking her and she in turn enjoys being tied up and spanked - its all so pre-planned that it becomes too predictable and therefore not very erotic.

The script of a fictional story doesn't have to follow the rules of a real-life BDSM club. A story can depict two people getting into a BDSM experience suddenly, unexpectedly, with both of them experiencing the thrill of a first-time experience. A woman could glance suggestively at the man's tie on the bed, and he could suddenly tie her hands to the bed in response. There are many ways of doing it.

But I think you have a point, which is that it's less erotic to write about two people doing what they always do, with nothing new or different about it, following the rules. It's more fun when they're exploring new ground and pushing the rules, but there are the BDSM gatekeepers who push against that.

 

[lc69hunter]

As an aside, there is a lot of stuff in LW that belongs in Fetish

 

[Norway_1705]

Don't listen to me, I'm just an idiot.
In my opinion, fetishism can be anything, and it need not include either "restrainments" or sadism.
Fetishism can also be simply staring at toes in women's open shoes but with free hands and open eyes. Easy.
Or being (by mistake or bet) the only naked person among many clothed people (CFnm or CMnf)
.
BDSM implies that at least one character is slightly restrained in movements (handcuffs, blindfolds, gags) as happened to comic book characters such as Daphne Blake, Penelope Pitstop, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin, and many others.
.
Of course, there is sadism even "without" handcuffs, exercised with verbal humiliation and bullying (consensual or, God forbid, non-consensual), there is Domination without honest safe words being agreed upon, etc. Then, sure, a band of orc raiders capture a young 18-year-old elven princess and abuse her in turn on a Planet of Fantasy...
.
Pornography insists a lot on the hypothesis (the fantasy) that a person is "really" imprisoned and coerced against his will, but it is something that personally disgusts me if it is not framed in consensual agreements and much mutual trust.