the generous sub

[pierced_boy]

a thought thread that has persisted with me for some time involves the the generosity of the sub and how this affects the top/bottom relationship and the mutual satisfaction.

lines in song capture some of how I am thinking, for instance

Tom Waits from Mule Variations :- Lowside of the Road "the dog won't bite if you beat him with a bone"

and

Joshua Cunningham's (The Waifs) lines from Up all Night :- Flesh and Blood

"Flesh and bood and skin and bone
You're looking from the outside in
All you'll see is what you're shown
flesh and blood and skin and bone

Flesh and bood and skin and bone
whats mine is mine alone
stand at the windows on your tippy toes
blinds are down - skin and bone"

Effective communication of the value of the exchange between top and bottom of the transation seems important to me.

How good are we at this? What do submissives do well that shows how they feel? The fine line between showing gratitude without coming across too needy, how do we get this right.... I find it hard.

The thread could equally be called the selfish sub. do we hold too much inside, not sharing.

The obvious answer is open communications, checklists and reviews and such but these become so analytical and scientific/accounting that they take the mystery and subtlness out of "doing it"

any others have thoughts on this
ideas to share

H

 

[notthemouse]

dick whipped ?

I have to agree that I much prefer my pussy be spanked with a nice hard cock than a crop...but a good sub is happy when s/he has a good Master.

 

[A Desert Rose]

a thought thread that has persisted with me for some time involves the the generosity of the sub and how this affects the top/bottom relationship and the mutual satisfaction.

lines in song capture some of how I am thinking, for instance

Tom Waits from Mule Variations :- Lowside of the Road "the dog won't bite if you beat him with a bone"

and

Joshua Cunningham's (The Waifs) lines from Up all Night :- Flesh and Blood

"Flesh and bood and skin and bone
You're looking from the outside in
All you'll see is what you're shown
flesh and blood and skin and bone

Flesh and bood and skin and bone
whats mine is mine alone
stand at the windows on your tippy toes
blinds are down - skin and bone"

Effective communication of the value of the exchange between top and bottom of the transation seems important to me.

How good are we at this? What do submissives do well that shows how they feel? The fine line between showing gratitude without coming across too needy, how do we get this right.... I find it hard.

The thread could equally be called the selfish sub. do we hold too much inside, not sharing.

The obvious answer is open communications, checklists and reviews and such but these become so analytical and scientific/accounting that they take the mystery and subtlness out of "doing it"

any others have thoughts on this
ideas to share

H

Oh yea... I know all about this, but only in my head. I don't like to share, it feels unnatural, self-serving, and just plain wrong for me to tell someone (in the case of this thread, a Dominant) how I feel. Even when asked directly what is going on in my head, I find it almost impossible to tell. I don't think I'm being selfish or coy. I feel like it's self-serving.

I am beginning to see how the education I received from a previous Dom, was actually successful. Not that is was neccessarily right, but it was successful. (wry smile)

(I miss you, Harry!)

 

[shy slave]

I think its important for a Dom to know how we feel, but I agree with ADR its not easy to do.

Some things are just too difficult or simply private.

I found it was good to have an online relationship first, it really helped me to express my feelings.
Without giving him feedback, how would he know where he would want to direct things next.

This r/l relationship i am in is so new, that I find it difficult to explain my feelings. I am cautious as I may come across as too needy or wanting; and terrifying Him into thinking its too much too soon.

As a generalisation, some words do not adequately express what you want to say. Or they can be misinterpretated as too over-the-top.

Pierced Boy I think you are right when you said the idea of checklist and reviews is too analytical and takes the mystery away.

At present, He checks and re-checks that I am ok afterwards, and later we may discuss how we felt or thought.

I find this easier if there has been a time lapse before we discuss feelings. It allows both of us to be more objective and learn about each others needs, without being overly emotional.

I guess over time these things get easier, its not that I don't want to share but i don't always have the right words.

IMHO Its a difficult balance to find the right words at the right time; and the right words to express the feelings.

Nor do I want to make a complete idiot of myself, by saying too much too soon, or in the heat of the moment

A good thread to ponder tho'

shy slave

 

[A Desert Rose]

...I am cautious as I may come across as too needy or wanting; and terrifying Him into thinking its too much too soon....

shy slave

Too needy or too clingy... I agree with you.

It's a difficult tightrope for me to walk.

 

[tn_greeneyez]

Another interesting discussion.

I, too, have found vocalization of my desires, likes, dislikes, etc. gives me difficulty. One thing that we have done is ............I have emailed pictures of situations, acts, that I would like to try. He takes the information into consideration when preparing for our next scene.

This has helped to relieve me of some of the stress of verbalizing desires and making requests........and, therefore, has taken away the "needy" "clingy" sub characteristic from the relationship, which is also not a very old one.

Another added "plus" of this arrangement has been that after I email various things, I get the pleasure of anticipating and wondering what He will choose. This heightens the entire experience for me, and has been a real aid in helping me to overcome some inhibitions and experience some very profound scenes under His control and in His hands.

 

[bustyblondebombshell]

Another interesting discussion.

I, too, have found vocalization of my desires, likes, dislikes, etc. gives me difficulty. One thing that we have done is ............I have emailed pictures of situations, acts, that I would like to try. He takes the information into consideration when preparing for our next scene.

This has helped to relieve me of some of the stress of verbalizing desires and making requests........and, therefore, has taken away the "needy" "clingy" sub characteristic from the relationship, which is also not a very old one.

Another added "plus" of this arrangement has been that after I email various things, I get the pleasure of anticipating and wondering what He will choose. This heightens the entire experience for me, and has been a real aid in helping me to overcome some inhibitions and experience some very profound scenes under His control and in His hands.

hey there!!

I completely agree that we need to vocalise our desires somehow, however, with the emailing pictures, as good an idea as it is, I am wary that my Master could see it a topping from the bottom.

I find it hard to express my emotions without crossing the boundaries of expression and neediness. The time apart helps, but I am still quite a passionate person and I find it difficult to restrain my emotions when they have been so strong. There must be another way, but then I guess each Dom/me is different........

Well, that wasnt really useful at all.............. any other ideas?!

BBBx.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Another interesting discussion.

I, too, have found vocalization of my desires, likes, dislikes, etc. gives me difficulty. One thing that we have done is ............I have emailed pictures of situations, acts, that I would like to try. He takes the information into consideration when preparing for our next scene.

This has helped to relieve me of some of the stress of verbalizing desires and making requests........and, therefore, has taken away the "needy" "clingy" sub characteristic from the relationship, which is also not a very old one.

Another added "plus" of this arrangement has been that after I email various things, I get the pleasure of anticipating and wondering what He will choose. This heightens the entire experience for me, and has been a real aid in helping me to overcome some inhibitions and experience some very profound scenes under His control and in His hands.

Personally, I think this is a very good idea. And have done so in the past with a previous Dom. He liked that I would hunt out pictures that appealed to me and sent them to him. He was quite flattered by it, in fact.

I like that you brought this up. It's a great idea for those of us who feel likes it's topping from the bottom when we verbalize our desires.

edited because sometimes my grammer sucks.

 

[Esclava]

Part of what relieves me of the feeling of "TFTB" is to ask Master's permission to speak freely about what I'm feeling. He has never failed to say, "What would you like to tell Master?" If allowed, I tell him what is on my mind, fantasies or whatever. And when he says he has heard what I have said, I have done all I can to let him know what is going on in my mind.

That doesn't mean that I will get what I desire. I will only get what I've asked about if Master decides that it is something he desires. Which works for me!

Esclava

 

[tn_greeneyez]

No problem with feeling like I'm topping from the bottom.........as this Dom knows I have trouble asking for what I like........and he encourages my picture sending. Now, as Esclava said.......that doesn't mean I get everything I want. He looks and decided what is there that he'd like.......knowing I'm interested just helps him decide what to do with me.

It's really worked very well.

 

[bustyblondebombshell]

I guess every Dom/me is different after all and W/we all just need to find O/our own way that works for our relationship........

Somethings are easy to resolve; most of them aren't!

I like the suggestion of sending photos, dont get me wrong, but my Master abhorred the idea. Oh well, any other suggestions?

BBB.............x.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I guess every Dom/me is different after all and W/we all just need to find O/our own way that works for our relationship........

Somethings are easy to resolve; most of them aren't!

I like the suggestion of sending photos, dont get me wrong, but my Master abhorred the idea. Oh well, any other suggestions?

BBB.............x.

And different is good. It's what makes life worth living.

 

[shy slave]

I have emailed some pics to Him.
A pic of what is truely in your mind or as a description of feelings isn't always easy to find.
(On a side -note I think Redelicious AV is so very sexy).

I have found that talking about the boards at Lit and saying whats on them at the moment helps, as I can discuss feelings etc in the abstract.

For me, at present, thats easier than trying to put feelings and needs into words.

It also allows me to gage His response to what i am saying which helps walk the tightrope ADR spoke of.

He has read some of the boards and questions me about some of my posts, which also allows me to speak a little easier.

I think this can be a common issue in vanilla sex as well as D/s. Explanations of how or what we feel, or what we percieve as a need or a want; when its so highly personal is never going to be like falling off a log.

I have memories of vanilla sex and wishing I could ask them to pull my hair, or speak in a certain way. Of course there were numerous reasons why I rarely voiced these wishes.

shy slave

 

[Esclava]

<snip>
I like the suggestion of sending photos, dont get me wrong, but my Master abhorred the idea. Oh well, any other suggestions?

BBB.............x. [/B]

I can understand why your Master abhorred the idea of you sending him explicit pictures of other people doing things that you are fantasizing about. Oh my... that just screams, "What are you doing looking at porn without me??" lmao

On a serious note, do you ever have "quiet" time where you just sit together? Gauge his reaction to you initiating a conversation by asking if you may speak freely. I know discussing "desires" is very difficult, but you have to be able to communicate with him about everything. What works for me is to talk to Master when neither of us is overly stressed, agitated, or into (or working into) a scene. It is the lack of demands in the quiet of the moment that lends itself to honest, non-judgemental discussion.

I wish you luck finding a happy medium in which to share your deepest, innermost thoughts.

Esclava

 

[Phoenix Stone]

'There's something that I heard about and I wondered what you thought of it.'

Note you haven't given your own opinion or even asked him a question. (Some don't like that.) He might ask you 'why do you ask?' Might tell you what he thinks, might just ignore the comment. In any case, he'll be able to see by your face, maybe tell by how you describe 'it'. And you'll have put it out there so that he'll be familiar with it.

Considering what a smartass and bigmouth I am around here (or is it the other way around?), I'm pretty reticent in expressing that I liked something, or in asking. And you folks have helped me learn some ways of expression that are more pleasing to him.

 

[pierced_boy]

Thankyou Everybody.

I guess the line" what is mine is mine alone" reflects many bottoms experience.

my relationships is long term and I WANT to share but find it difficult. I am needy and and and and but it is important to develop. The conundrum is how to do it constructively.

Quote "I wish you luck finding a happy medium in which to share your deepest, innermost thoughts."
Esclava

Thankyou


and thankyou Roxy for you kindness

H

 

[bustyblondebombshell]

Esclava,

once again I am indebted to you for your wonderful advice. Relatively new to participating in the lifestyle, there are somethings that I am just not aware of, and still need to learn.

I mentioned to Sir about just talking about a few things and he said he would make time for me to talk about any of my concerns, so at least then maybe we can discuss about how I can tell him the things I so desperately want him to know about me.

Thankyou Pierced Boy for starting a thread which would help me find my voice, and thankyou Esclava for the advice to which I will now heed.

I will keep you updated to the progress of my journey.

BBB x.