lavender
Cautiously Optimistic
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2001
- Posts
- 25,108
I am Patriotic and I love this country. My love of this country has not come merely from a feeling akin to rooting for your football team, or needing to have extreme pride for the place where you live, but from a long-time studying the great history of this nation, the founding fathers, the principles upon which our country was grounded, the constitution, the federalist papers, and how our country has acted through its history.
I deeply believe that an understanding of this history and the constitutional bedrock upon which this great constitutional republic was founded are so important to knowing how we should govern ourselves today and in the future.
This is beyond the simple partisan bickering the "blue team" versus "red team" and who is going to win an election. Despite disagreement with many of them, I think Nixon understood the greatness of this nation and its people. I think Reagan and Bush Sr. understood the greatness of this nation and its people. And I believe that McCain understands this as well.
I believe that those for whom I have voted for President, be it Clinton, Gore, Kerry and in this election Obama understood this history and these bedrock principles.
These men who have run for the Presidential office and who have led for both parties, had a deep understanding of our history and an appreciation for the constitutional principles upon which this nation is founded. They may have different interpretations of how the market should deal with itself, whether we should emphasize social justice, economic justice, distributive principles, etc. They may have governed differently. But, at the end of the day they had an understanding and an appreciation of what they were fighting for and standing for - some more than others, of course.
I think one of my main problems with Bush and Cheney was that I never believed Bush had this understanding and I think the Bush/Cheney administration has looked at the Constitution like individuals and companies look at the tax code - looking for the loopholes rather than understanding the greatness of the principles embodied in the separation of powers and the bill of rights, just to name a few.
But, from this perspective and from my reading, I am terribly and deeply fearful of what could be wrought on this country should Sarah Palin be elected to office.
I could post about trivial things about Sarah Palin right now, how she winked at the debate, how some Republican commentators all but said they got a huge woody at home feeling the "starbursts" on the screen, and many of the other superficial and trivial things I may have said about Sarah Palin in the past. But, the more and more I read about her - the more and more dangerous I think she is. Not because of what she represents - but because what she "believes" and what she simply does not seem to know.
I think it is easy to cloak oneself unknowingly and just in blind faith in the greatnesss of this nation - to wrap yourself in the flag but not understand that it is what the flag symbolizes that makes it such a powerful representative of our history and the freedoms and rights we possess and share in this country.
Through listening to Sarah Palin, I do not believe she has this understanding and knowledge. I cannot imagine a President being sworn in to protect the Constitution of the United States when you have such a lack of knowledge and understanding of the principles upon which you are swearing.
Although this is antecdotal, Sarah Palin's answers in the Couric interview, the Gibson interview, and the debate do not dispel but only heighten these fears. One critical question about whether the vice president is in the executive or legislative branch was unclearly addressed by Palin. But, it appears that she believes like Cheney that the Vice President is not really a part of the executive branch.
This scares me as being Cheney-esque. But, I'm sure a handful of probably somewhat disreputable constitutional theorists believe this. So, I can say I feel it's dangerous but deal with it and know that I'm not going to vote for her.
This scares me. She does not appear to have the fundamental understanding of checks and balances, separation of powers, and how the executive, legislative, and judicial branches work together.
How can I have any faith in a person upholding the Constitution if from the onset it is so clear she has absolutely no knowledge or understanding of these critical principles upon which our nation is based and has governed itself for well over two centuries?
That's just one thing. There is also the entire way Sarah Palin has dealt with the "press." While I can hede the facts that sometimes the mainstream media is not the best source of all information, do we really need to completely demonize the press? Just because some negative things come out about you - do we really need to blame simply the people who recorded your statements or asked you questions?
Recently, in a speech or on an interview, Palin discussed the freedom of the press as a "privilege." When I read this, I was dumbfounded. You see there is a huge debate in our society, for those who don't know and I'm sure many of you do, as to what constitutes a "right" and what constitutes a "privilege." There is a huge ideological different on these things between different types of constitutional theorists. Typically, more liberal thinkers actually like to enumerate additional rights while many more conservative thinkers want to discuss things no specifically enumerated in the constituion as a "privilege."
The problem with calling the freedom of the press a "privilege" is that it flies directly and unequivocally in the fact of the First Amendment which explicitly establishes a right of the freedom of the press.
I could go back and search for numerous historical quotes from our founding fathers, the federalist papers, and numerous amazing Supreme Court opinions throughout the ages discussing about this cherished freedom.
You see, freedom of the press is what differentiates the United States from those communist countries we despise. It was Putin's crackdown on the media in Russia that made us know that "democracy" in Russia was in dire condition and the past authoritarianism was on the rise again in that country.
It was a robust press and the opening up of Russia with glasnost - i.e. allowing more freedom for the press - that acted with other factors in bringing down that wall of communism.
The marketplace of ideas and the role of the press is such a fundeamental principle in our nation that despite the fact that the press can be annoying or the press can ask dumb questions like asking a person who just watched their house burn down how they feel.
But, it is incredibly important for our elected officials to speak before the press, to allow the press to question. In such a large, diverse democracy as ours, it is the press that allows the voters to know who they are voting for and what we are voting about. Without the press, in this vast society, there is little to know way that was can make an educated vote.
Thus, to demonize the press at every point (despite whether it is an effective political tactic) while calling the freeom of the press a "privilege" really bothers me. I think we have seen what a heavy presidential hand with the press can be like through the last 8 years.
Only to further highlight this is the fact that Sarah Palin has not even held a single press conference. In fact when a voter asked Palin a question it was called gotcha journalism. Palin is the pitbull and is throwing a ton of rocks, but then hiding her hand. No questions from the press, no interviews except under certain circumstances and conditions, and no press conferences. What in the world? This is America. This is the type of tactic that is used in non-democratic countries not a nation who values the vote and the freedom of the press as much as ours.
The concept of separation of church and state with Sarah Palin bothers me a great deal. While I understand one's religious beliefs guiding their lives - I come from a deeply evangelical Chrisian family and was raised with these beliefs - I also understand the history of this country, why it was founded, and why freedom of religion and separation of church and state were engrained in the greatest document to represent our ideals. But, from viewing Sarah Palin's comments on religion and the beliefs she seems to hold and have been raised upon, I fear that religion would completely infuse our government with her in power. While, we can look at the morals of Judeo Christian beliefs and put them to work in our government, to some extent - i.e. what is criminal behavior, what we hold ourselves out for, to govern on religious principles is a theocracy not a democracy. Does Sarah Palin understand this? I'm deeply afraid that she does not - and feels that somehow she embodies how we need more religions in government we need the principles of church in the state not separated from it.
What is so odd about this is the discussion of spreading democracy throughout the globe? Does she understand what principles we are spreading? How does that square with the way she seems to believe our democracy functions at home. When the former Soviet Union split and American scholars went to help write the constitutions of these newly emerging democracies - some of these freedoms and principles, which I have discussed above, including separation of church and state were what we worked with them to include - to show them how a democracy should work.
How can we continue to spread this democracy when our own leaders don't understand what makes our democracy the greatest on the planet?
I know we need people who represent and understand the plight of the average American. We do not need our leaders to be so insulated and out of touch with what the average American believes and facts. But, don't we want the best and brightest - those who have real ideas (not just talking points that they have new ideas), and understanding of how these ideas are put in effect in our government - governing us? How can we elect to lead this great nation someone who does not even show a bit of understanding of what makes this nation great - not talking points - but the ideas of our forefathers, the principles of the constitution, why American democracy was the surviving ideology in the 20th century and beyond.
This weekend, I was away from my house and did not read. On my travels home, I listened to the news from various channels on XM. And that's when I heard the comments from Sarah Palin as she is going on the attack against Barack Obama. Politics as usual - in many ways yes. I could start speaking about the comments on Ayers - but that's not what bothered me the most.
What bothered me the most was the statement that- "This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America."
Inherent in this comment to me is that Barack Obama is some "other." The way that he has been painted in mass e-mails (admittedly not by the campaign itself) as a Muslim, and exotic. The way he had to overcome charges about his education in Indonesia, a ton of rumors about his background, and that yes he is truly African American.
The way that Palin would make the dig that Obama does not see America the same way - indicating that somehow he hates this country or that somehow he's not "one of us," "un-American" or "unpatriotic" really gets me to my core.
We are a nation that is in a financial and economic crisis, whose fighting two wars on foreign soil, trying to deal with global terrorism, growing threats from Russia, growing threats to our environment.
Do we really need a culture war at this time? Do we really need such division?
There seems to be an undercurrent - whether it is ethnocentric, racist, classist, whatever.....to this comment. An undercurrent that divides us - not unites us. Do we really want to be divided through this pettiness at this time in our history? Haven't we come so far - do we really want to turn the clock back? Do we really have such little respect for the way Americans have realized some of the hate and discrimination of our past - and allowed it to create a nation that embodies those principles of inalienable rights and equal opportunity and that we are essentially all equals as citizens of the United States.
For what? To win an election?
At what cost do you win an election? At what point is it so important that the "blue team" or "red team" wins - that we compromise the principles upon which this country is founded.
How can we be that shining beacon on a hill when pictures of us torturing others are spread throughout the world? How can we be the country promoting democracy and out democratic principles, when leaders are seemingly more tied to concepts of theocracy rather than freedom of religion and separation of church and state? How can we be the country promoting democracy when we suspend habeas corpus in our own country?
When you say you are patriotic - what makes you patriotic? It's not just love of America as in the actual plot of land upon which we live. It's the love of our ideals, our values, the principles that have guided this country.
How can we even consider a person who so clearly does not understand or seem to have any knowledge of these principles.
It's easy to talk generically about freedom. It's easy to talk generally about America. But, at some point you have to geat some meat as to what this country actually stands for and show that you are going to promote that view - based upon the actual principles not just some whim that you think is right.
This woman truly scares me in a way that even Bush/Cheney did not and do not. As I read about her and the way she governed in Alaska, she did not want the long thoughtful answers - she wanted bulletpoints (kinda like Bush). She did not want to hear dissent (kinda like Bush). She had a view - whether it was grounded in reality and gacts or not - and dammit, that's the way it was going to be.
This is way too long now and I have much more to say. But, I'm just so incredibly disheartened that even after she has demonstrated this so many people actually still support her just because she's like them, or winked at them, or spoke to them on a personal level. I do get that to some extent - but there's a larger picture out there. This is not about the trees, it's about the forest. I don't think she looks past the bark.
If for some reason, this politics of divisiveness wins this time, I will probably be stunned at first. And whether it is from shock, or from fear, or from disgust, or feeling insulted, I will shed a tear.
Despite those who think I'm just some wacky liberal, I actually have a great love for this country and all its people - even those who don't agree with me at all. We don't deserve her.
I won't shed a tear because the "blue team" lost - but because the principles and ideals of our country lost and will be in jeopardy.
It's beyond who is going to raise taxes or not, who has a better health care plan, who will drill or not, who will invade Iran or not (although that one scares the living bejeezus out of me).
I never thought John McCain would do this, I really feel betrayed by a man for whom I did at one time have great respect. I cannot believe someone who suffered like he did, like my uncles did in the same war and other more brutal POW camps, would give a boost to the career of a woman who has no real idea of the reason the principles of this country are worthy and deserving of such sacrifice.
I deeply believe that an understanding of this history and the constitutional bedrock upon which this great constitutional republic was founded are so important to knowing how we should govern ourselves today and in the future.
This is beyond the simple partisan bickering the "blue team" versus "red team" and who is going to win an election. Despite disagreement with many of them, I think Nixon understood the greatness of this nation and its people. I think Reagan and Bush Sr. understood the greatness of this nation and its people. And I believe that McCain understands this as well.
I believe that those for whom I have voted for President, be it Clinton, Gore, Kerry and in this election Obama understood this history and these bedrock principles.
These men who have run for the Presidential office and who have led for both parties, had a deep understanding of our history and an appreciation for the constitutional principles upon which this nation is founded. They may have different interpretations of how the market should deal with itself, whether we should emphasize social justice, economic justice, distributive principles, etc. They may have governed differently. But, at the end of the day they had an understanding and an appreciation of what they were fighting for and standing for - some more than others, of course.
I think one of my main problems with Bush and Cheney was that I never believed Bush had this understanding and I think the Bush/Cheney administration has looked at the Constitution like individuals and companies look at the tax code - looking for the loopholes rather than understanding the greatness of the principles embodied in the separation of powers and the bill of rights, just to name a few.
But, from this perspective and from my reading, I am terribly and deeply fearful of what could be wrought on this country should Sarah Palin be elected to office.
I could post about trivial things about Sarah Palin right now, how she winked at the debate, how some Republican commentators all but said they got a huge woody at home feeling the "starbursts" on the screen, and many of the other superficial and trivial things I may have said about Sarah Palin in the past. But, the more and more I read about her - the more and more dangerous I think she is. Not because of what she represents - but because what she "believes" and what she simply does not seem to know.
I think it is easy to cloak oneself unknowingly and just in blind faith in the greatnesss of this nation - to wrap yourself in the flag but not understand that it is what the flag symbolizes that makes it such a powerful representative of our history and the freedoms and rights we possess and share in this country.
Through listening to Sarah Palin, I do not believe she has this understanding and knowledge. I cannot imagine a President being sworn in to protect the Constitution of the United States when you have such a lack of knowledge and understanding of the principles upon which you are swearing.
Although this is antecdotal, Sarah Palin's answers in the Couric interview, the Gibson interview, and the debate do not dispel but only heighten these fears. One critical question about whether the vice president is in the executive or legislative branch was unclearly addressed by Palin. But, it appears that she believes like Cheney that the Vice President is not really a part of the executive branch.
This scares me as being Cheney-esque. But, I'm sure a handful of probably somewhat disreputable constitutional theorists believe this. So, I can say I feel it's dangerous but deal with it and know that I'm not going to vote for her.
This scares me. She does not appear to have the fundamental understanding of checks and balances, separation of powers, and how the executive, legislative, and judicial branches work together.
How can I have any faith in a person upholding the Constitution if from the onset it is so clear she has absolutely no knowledge or understanding of these critical principles upon which our nation is based and has governed itself for well over two centuries?
That's just one thing. There is also the entire way Sarah Palin has dealt with the "press." While I can hede the facts that sometimes the mainstream media is not the best source of all information, do we really need to completely demonize the press? Just because some negative things come out about you - do we really need to blame simply the people who recorded your statements or asked you questions?
Recently, in a speech or on an interview, Palin discussed the freedom of the press as a "privilege." When I read this, I was dumbfounded. You see there is a huge debate in our society, for those who don't know and I'm sure many of you do, as to what constitutes a "right" and what constitutes a "privilege." There is a huge ideological different on these things between different types of constitutional theorists. Typically, more liberal thinkers actually like to enumerate additional rights while many more conservative thinkers want to discuss things no specifically enumerated in the constituion as a "privilege."
The problem with calling the freedom of the press a "privilege" is that it flies directly and unequivocally in the fact of the First Amendment which explicitly establishes a right of the freedom of the press.
I could go back and search for numerous historical quotes from our founding fathers, the federalist papers, and numerous amazing Supreme Court opinions throughout the ages discussing about this cherished freedom.
You see, freedom of the press is what differentiates the United States from those communist countries we despise. It was Putin's crackdown on the media in Russia that made us know that "democracy" in Russia was in dire condition and the past authoritarianism was on the rise again in that country.
It was a robust press and the opening up of Russia with glasnost - i.e. allowing more freedom for the press - that acted with other factors in bringing down that wall of communism.
The marketplace of ideas and the role of the press is such a fundeamental principle in our nation that despite the fact that the press can be annoying or the press can ask dumb questions like asking a person who just watched their house burn down how they feel.
But, it is incredibly important for our elected officials to speak before the press, to allow the press to question. In such a large, diverse democracy as ours, it is the press that allows the voters to know who they are voting for and what we are voting about. Without the press, in this vast society, there is little to know way that was can make an educated vote.
Thus, to demonize the press at every point (despite whether it is an effective political tactic) while calling the freeom of the press a "privilege" really bothers me. I think we have seen what a heavy presidential hand with the press can be like through the last 8 years.
Only to further highlight this is the fact that Sarah Palin has not even held a single press conference. In fact when a voter asked Palin a question it was called gotcha journalism. Palin is the pitbull and is throwing a ton of rocks, but then hiding her hand. No questions from the press, no interviews except under certain circumstances and conditions, and no press conferences. What in the world? This is America. This is the type of tactic that is used in non-democratic countries not a nation who values the vote and the freedom of the press as much as ours.
The concept of separation of church and state with Sarah Palin bothers me a great deal. While I understand one's religious beliefs guiding their lives - I come from a deeply evangelical Chrisian family and was raised with these beliefs - I also understand the history of this country, why it was founded, and why freedom of religion and separation of church and state were engrained in the greatest document to represent our ideals. But, from viewing Sarah Palin's comments on religion and the beliefs she seems to hold and have been raised upon, I fear that religion would completely infuse our government with her in power. While, we can look at the morals of Judeo Christian beliefs and put them to work in our government, to some extent - i.e. what is criminal behavior, what we hold ourselves out for, to govern on religious principles is a theocracy not a democracy. Does Sarah Palin understand this? I'm deeply afraid that she does not - and feels that somehow she embodies how we need more religions in government we need the principles of church in the state not separated from it.
What is so odd about this is the discussion of spreading democracy throughout the globe? Does she understand what principles we are spreading? How does that square with the way she seems to believe our democracy functions at home. When the former Soviet Union split and American scholars went to help write the constitutions of these newly emerging democracies - some of these freedoms and principles, which I have discussed above, including separation of church and state were what we worked with them to include - to show them how a democracy should work.
How can we continue to spread this democracy when our own leaders don't understand what makes our democracy the greatest on the planet?
I know we need people who represent and understand the plight of the average American. We do not need our leaders to be so insulated and out of touch with what the average American believes and facts. But, don't we want the best and brightest - those who have real ideas (not just talking points that they have new ideas), and understanding of how these ideas are put in effect in our government - governing us? How can we elect to lead this great nation someone who does not even show a bit of understanding of what makes this nation great - not talking points - but the ideas of our forefathers, the principles of the constitution, why American democracy was the surviving ideology in the 20th century and beyond.
This weekend, I was away from my house and did not read. On my travels home, I listened to the news from various channels on XM. And that's when I heard the comments from Sarah Palin as she is going on the attack against Barack Obama. Politics as usual - in many ways yes. I could start speaking about the comments on Ayers - but that's not what bothered me the most.
What bothered me the most was the statement that- "This is not a man who sees America as you see America and as I see America."
Inherent in this comment to me is that Barack Obama is some "other." The way that he has been painted in mass e-mails (admittedly not by the campaign itself) as a Muslim, and exotic. The way he had to overcome charges about his education in Indonesia, a ton of rumors about his background, and that yes he is truly African American.
The way that Palin would make the dig that Obama does not see America the same way - indicating that somehow he hates this country or that somehow he's not "one of us," "un-American" or "unpatriotic" really gets me to my core.
We are a nation that is in a financial and economic crisis, whose fighting two wars on foreign soil, trying to deal with global terrorism, growing threats from Russia, growing threats to our environment.
Do we really need a culture war at this time? Do we really need such division?
There seems to be an undercurrent - whether it is ethnocentric, racist, classist, whatever.....to this comment. An undercurrent that divides us - not unites us. Do we really want to be divided through this pettiness at this time in our history? Haven't we come so far - do we really want to turn the clock back? Do we really have such little respect for the way Americans have realized some of the hate and discrimination of our past - and allowed it to create a nation that embodies those principles of inalienable rights and equal opportunity and that we are essentially all equals as citizens of the United States.
For what? To win an election?
At what cost do you win an election? At what point is it so important that the "blue team" or "red team" wins - that we compromise the principles upon which this country is founded.
How can we be that shining beacon on a hill when pictures of us torturing others are spread throughout the world? How can we be the country promoting democracy and out democratic principles, when leaders are seemingly more tied to concepts of theocracy rather than freedom of religion and separation of church and state? How can we be the country promoting democracy when we suspend habeas corpus in our own country?
When you say you are patriotic - what makes you patriotic? It's not just love of America as in the actual plot of land upon which we live. It's the love of our ideals, our values, the principles that have guided this country.
How can we even consider a person who so clearly does not understand or seem to have any knowledge of these principles.
It's easy to talk generically about freedom. It's easy to talk generally about America. But, at some point you have to geat some meat as to what this country actually stands for and show that you are going to promote that view - based upon the actual principles not just some whim that you think is right.
This woman truly scares me in a way that even Bush/Cheney did not and do not. As I read about her and the way she governed in Alaska, she did not want the long thoughtful answers - she wanted bulletpoints (kinda like Bush). She did not want to hear dissent (kinda like Bush). She had a view - whether it was grounded in reality and gacts or not - and dammit, that's the way it was going to be.
This is way too long now and I have much more to say. But, I'm just so incredibly disheartened that even after she has demonstrated this so many people actually still support her just because she's like them, or winked at them, or spoke to them on a personal level. I do get that to some extent - but there's a larger picture out there. This is not about the trees, it's about the forest. I don't think she looks past the bark.
If for some reason, this politics of divisiveness wins this time, I will probably be stunned at first. And whether it is from shock, or from fear, or from disgust, or feeling insulted, I will shed a tear.
Despite those who think I'm just some wacky liberal, I actually have a great love for this country and all its people - even those who don't agree with me at all. We don't deserve her.
I won't shed a tear because the "blue team" lost - but because the principles and ideals of our country lost and will be in jeopardy.
It's beyond who is going to raise taxes or not, who has a better health care plan, who will drill or not, who will invade Iran or not (although that one scares the living bejeezus out of me).
I never thought John McCain would do this, I really feel betrayed by a man for whom I did at one time have great respect. I cannot believe someone who suffered like he did, like my uncles did in the same war and other more brutal POW camps, would give a boost to the career of a woman who has no real idea of the reason the principles of this country are worthy and deserving of such sacrifice.
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