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The Economy

SkyBubble said:
WE were shut down mostly by Democrats. Remember when Trump attacked DeSantis and Kemp for re-opening "too early"? Republican state, on the whole, got their economies up and running a lot sooner than Democrat states did.
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That's understandable. Trump's waning acts were to allow COVID to spread, denying it was anything more than a cold. The handoff of Democracy to Biden meant, yes, we were mostly shut down by Democrats. Obviously, it was the party in power. That's a fact–not a fault. Sure, some states opened two weeks earlier. It didn't mean anything in the long run of a two-week advantage.

  • A University of Washington study found that states with Republican governors eased their initial COVID-19 restrictions approximately two weeks earlier than states with Democratic governors.
  • Early vs. long-term outcomes: While some studies show Republican-led states had higher employment and stronger economic growth in the initial months of the pandemic, other analyses found these advantages largely dissipated over the long term. A 2024 paper in COVID-19 and beyond: economic outcomes in Republican vs. Democratic states indicated that Republican states' employment growth and unemployment advantages "dissipated during the recovery from the COVID-19 recession such that there was not any longer-term advantage".
SkyBubble said:
And remember, it was the Trump administration that brought in Operation Warp Speed to get a vaccine as quickly as possible -- roughly a year, as opposed to five years when the Obama government gave a single company a mandate to do a vaccine. Yet somehow, you want to blame Trump for not having a vaccine sooner. Are you one of those people who denied Trump actually had COVID when he got it during the campaign, then openly rooted for it to kill him like so many in your party?
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If you don't acknowledge the virus is harmful to begin with, how would he have had a vaccine earlier? That he lied about it to the public is the greater sin. He wandered around in public without masking or distancing himself from his comrades and came down with COVID, much like poking a wasp nest and standing there to see the results. He got bitten. Medical experts had been warning him; he saw it spreading rapidly overseas. When he came down with it, he ran for medical help and received the best care in the world, all while keeping it a secret from the public as well. I fault Trump for his denials and the subsequent harm caused by not acting earlier than he could have. He failed to listen to medical experts, which was on him, and as a result, all of us paid for his misjudgment about the virus.

You're such a drama queen/king. I didn't root for the Felon to perish by COVID. However, I wouldn't have cried at his funeral either. :confused:
SkyBubble said:
The economy was in a worse state when Biden left than when he took office. Most of the "job growth" he bragged about was either jobs coming back from the pandemic lockdowns or more government jobs, paid for by the taxpayers. Prices skyrocketed. Especially essentials: Food, housing, gas, clothing.
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The economy wasn't all roses. You're right about the essentials rising in price. But your take on this is parroting the Felon's views. The Guardian says differently and also points out that economists used data to support their own slants. I'll leave it with this since I'm not an economist:
  • But the truth is that by standard economic measures, the US economy was in excellent shape when Biden turned over the White House keys to Trump, even though most Americans, upset about inflation, told pollsters the economy was in poor shape.
  • When Biden left office, the unemployment rate was a low 4.1%, and during Biden’s four years in office, the average jobless rate was lower than for any president since the 1960s. Trump has repeatedly railed against the high inflation under Biden, but the fact is that by the time Biden left office, the inflation rate had fallen to just 2.9% – down more than two-thirds from its peak and near the Federal Reserve’s inflation goal.
SkyBubble said:
Your feeble efforts to blame it on Ukraine or corporations don't hold water. The reason for teh corporate cost increases was the increased price of supplies caused by more government spending. Remember Biden's $6 trillion spending bill? We're still paying for that.
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My weakness is sitting in this damned wheelchair, reading posts that are more tilted than Kilimanjaro. I didn't blame anything on Ukraine. Your reading skills need some honing.

Ukraine, at war, faced tremendous difficulties in getting grain out to feed the poor in many countries. It produces 10% of the world's grain and over half of the world's cooking oil from sunflowers. The world pressured Putin to let those ships out of the dock through his warships to help others. That wasn't the only factor, of course, but it's no small matter either. It matters because we exported more under those conditions, and prices rose, as it was a recognized contributing factor. Corporations, emerging from COVID, jumped at the chance to pocket their share and more—greedy bastards. But you know that.

Biden's 6 trillion? Elon says we'll be paying for 5 trillion under the Felon's big beautiful bill. Suck on that lemon, fella. You don't get any points there. Not to mention the tariffs are creating a mess for our economy, for which no one has a handle on the costs of damage to the economy yet.

It's only in a starvation economy mode, that no one would accept, that we dig ourselves out of the economic sinkhole we are in. It sucks to be in the next generations doesn't it? That's okay, your guy says, since he helped pass that Big Beautiful Inflation Bill that the wealthiest man in the world says is going to break us.
SkyBubble said:
The only ways to pay for additional government spending are tax increases (which mean less money to produce goods and services and less money to buy them), borrowing (paid for by future taxes), or simply printing money backed by hot air. All three damage the economy.

The bad economy was the direct result of Biden's policies. Ye, he inherited a bad economy. His policies made it worse, and Trump's second term so far seems to be making it even worse than that.
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You suffer from BDS. Some here are going to add that you suffer from TDS after that last sentence also. :giggle::devilish:

Seems you're facing @BrightShinyGirl's both-side-ism syndrome.
 
People may be skeptical about job creation numbers because they come from a survey, and the recent 0.6% revision freaks out some who don’t understand context, but there is a source of hard data about employment: Unemployment insurance claims.

As the economic impact of the pandemic eased in 2022, unemployment claims fell to historically low levels and have stayed there since.
 
New report released yesterday:

For Immediate Release: Tuesday, September 09, 2025​

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2024​


https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2025/income-poverty-health-insurance-coverage.html

Excerpts:

Income estimates are based on the concept of money income and do not account for the value of in-kind transfers. They are pretax, unless otherwise indicated.

  • Median household income was $83,730 in 2024, not statistically different from the 2023 estimate of $82,690.
  • Between 2023 and 2024, median income increased by 5.1% for Asian households and 5.5% for Hispanic households, while it declined by 3.3% for Black households. Median income did not change significantly for White or White non-Hispanic households. (The difference between the 2023-2024 percentage change in median household income for Asian householders and Hispanic householders was not statistically significant.)
  • Income inequality as measured by the Gini index was not significantly different between 2023 and 2024.
  • Household income at the 90th percentile increased 4.2%, but did not significantly change at the 10th and 50th percentiles between 2023 and 2024.
 
dmallord said:
That's understandable. Trump's waning acts were to allow COVID to spread, denying it was anything more than a cold. The handoff of Democracy to Biden meant, yes, we were mostly shut down by Democrats. Obviously, it was the party in power. That's a fact–not a fault. Sure, some states opened two weeks earlier. It didn't mean anything in the long run of a two-week advantage.

  • A University of Washington study found that states with Republican governors eased their initial COVID-19 restrictions approximately two weeks earlier than states with Democratic governors.
  • Early vs. long-term outcomes: While some studies show Republican-led states had higher employment and stronger economic growth in the initial months of the pandemic, other analyses found these advantages largely dissipated over the long term. A 2024 paper in COVID-19 and beyond: economic outcomes in Republican vs. Democratic states indicated that Republican states' employment growth and unemployment advantages "dissipated during the recovery from the COVID-19 recession such that there was not any longer-term advantage".

If you don't acknowledge the virus is harmful to begin with, how would he have had a vaccine earlier? That he lied about it to the public is the greater sin. He wandered around in public without masking or distancing himself from his comrades and came down with COVID, much like poking a wasp nest and standing there to see the results. He got bitten. Medical experts had been warning him; he saw it spreading rapidly overseas. When he came down with it, he ran for medical help and received the best care in the world, all while keeping it a secret from the public as well. I fault Trump for his denials and the subsequent harm caused by not acting earlier than he could have. He failed to listen to medical experts, which was on him, and as a result, all of us paid for his misjudgment about the virus.

You're such a drama queen/king. I didn't root for the Felon to perish by COVID. However, I wouldn't have cried at his funeral either. :confused:

The economy wasn't all roses. You're right about the essentials rising in price. But your take on this is parroting the Felon's views. The Guardian says differently and also points out that economists used data to support their own slants. I'll leave it with this since I'm not an economist:
  • But the truth is that by standard economic measures, the US economy was in excellent shape when Biden turned over the White House keys to Trump, even though most Americans, upset about inflation, told pollsters the economy was in poor shape.
  • When Biden left office, the unemployment rate was a low 4.1%, and during Biden’s four years in office, the average jobless rate was lower than for any president since the 1960s. Trump has repeatedly railed against the high inflation under Biden, but the fact is that by the time Biden left office, the inflation rate had fallen to just 2.9% – down more than two-thirds from its peak and near the Federal Reserve’s inflation goal.

My weakness is sitting in this damned wheelchair, reading posts that are more tilted than Kilimanjaro. I didn't blame anything on Ukraine. Your reading skills need some honing.

Ukraine, at war, faced tremendous difficulties in getting grain out to feed the poor in many countries. It produces 10% of the world's grain and over half of the world's cooking oil from sunflowers. The world pressured Putin to let those ships out of the dock through his warships to help others. That wasn't the only factor, of course, but it's no small matter either. It matters because we exported more under those conditions, and prices rose, as it was a recognized contributing factor. Corporations, emerging from COVID, jumped at the chance to pocket their share and more—greedy bastards. But you know that.

Biden's 6 trillion? Elon says we'll be paying for 5 trillion under the Felon's big beautiful bill. Suck on that lemon, fella. You don't get any points there. Not to mention the tariffs are creating a mess for our economy, for which no one has a handle on the costs of damage to the economy yet.

It's only in a starvation economy mode, that no one would accept, that we dig ourselves out of the economic sinkhole we are in. It sucks to be in the next generations doesn't it? That's okay, your guy says, since he helped pass that Big Beautiful Inflation Bill that the wealthiest man in the world says is going to break us.

You suffer from BDS. Some here are going to add that you suffer from TDS after that last sentence also. :giggle::devilish:

Seems you're facing @BrightShinyGirl's both-side-ism syndrome.
Click to expand...
You are a master at cherry picking and lying by omission. 2 things,..1) At the beginning of COVID-19 no one knew what we were dealing with. What the Trump administration attempted to do was to refuse immigration or tourist to enter the country and was called a racist. He tried to ease or avoid panic...2) Once Trump realized the severity of the original virus he established the *Warp speed initiative* to develop a vaccine. Trump was the right person at the right time and thanks to his business acumen we were able developed a vaccine in historically record time. Biden did not have a clue! Don't forget Obama left the cupboards bare. Don't forget more people died under Biden's watch. Do I hold Biden responsible for lost lives, of course not. The virus was going to run its course even with a vaccine.

I predicted Letitia James's/Engoron trial would be overturned, you scoffed at that. The Bragg case will follow the same trajectory. I mentioned this fact just to expose your TDS on steroids.

As far as Biden bringing inflation down, that's the equivalent of shutting the barn door after the horses escaped. Biden started his administration on the receiving end of a V type economic recovery and he fucked that up. He did what dems love to do, use a crisis to overspend sending inflation of to the races. Grocery prices will never come down to it's original before covid levels.

Now Elon's your buddy. Your predilection towards Elon's prediction of Trump spending 5 trillion is flawed as usual, why don't you wait till the end of his term. TDS on steroids. We know how inaccurate you are with your predictions.

I'm sorry you're in a wheelchair but if any opinion is tilted it's yours!

Then there's the Ukraine disaster.
Then the Afghanistan disaster.
Then there's the Israeli/Hamas/Iran disaster.
Then there's the Houthis taking pop shot at our military with virtually no retaliation.
Then there's the feckless immigration policy and open borders that we have to deal with today.
 
icanhelp1 said:
You are a master at cherry picking and lying by omission. 2 things,..1) At the beginning of COVID-19 no one knew what we were dealing with. What the Trump administration attempted to do was to refuse immigration or tourist to enter the country and was called a racist. He tried to ease or avoid panic...2) Once Trump realized the severity of the original virus he established the *Warp speed initiative* to develop a vaccine. Trump was the right person at the right time and thanks to his business acumen we were able developed a vaccine in historically record time. Biden did not have a clue! Don't forget Obama left the cupboards bare. Don't forget more people died under Biden's watch. Do I hold Biden responsible for lost lives, of course not. The virus was going to run its course even with a vaccine.

I predicted Letitia James's/Engoron trial would be overturned, you scoffed at that. The Bragg case will follow the same trajectory. I mentioned this fact just to expose your TDS on steroids.

As far as Biden bringing inflation down, that's the equivalent of shutting the barn door after the horses escaped. Biden started his administration on the receiving end of a V type economic recovery and he fucked that up. He did what dems love to do, use a crisis to overspend sending inflation of to the races. Grocery prices will never come down to it's original before covid levels.

Now Elon's your buddy. Your predilection towards Elon's prediction of Trump spending 5 trillion is flawed as usual, why don't you wait till the end of his term. TDS on steroids. We know how inaccurate you are with your predictions.

I'm sorry you're in a wheelchair but if any opinion is tilted it's yours!

Then there's the Ukraine disaster.
Then the Afghanistan disaster.
Then there's the Israeli/Hamas/Iran disaster.
Then there's the Houthis taking pop shot at our military with virtually no retaliation.
Then there's the feckless immigration policy and open borders that we have to deal with today.
Click to expand...

🙄

Jesus fuck…

😑

👉 ineedhelp1 🤣

🇺🇸

We. Told. Them. So.

🌷
 
The Producer Price Index ticked downward 0.1% in August. It was a bounce after increasing 0.7% in July.

The PPI was 2.6% for the 12 months ending in August.

It has stayed within a narrow band since December 2022, which highlights the fact that most of the inflationary pressure over the last few years has come from things like housing and medical care that aren’t part of the PPI.

The article randomly mentions that coffee prices are up 33% from a year ago. I’m glad I don’t drink the stuff.
 
MajorRewrite said:
No, you posted articles about the Obama administration. Obama. We weren’t discussing Obama. Obama wasn’t the president in 2024.

Now I’m wondering if you know what year this is?
Click to expand...
Correct. I said the Obama economy wasn't good. You claimed otherwise. I posted articles fromthat time showing it wasn't, adn you attacked me for posting articles from that time.
 
icanhelp1 said:
You are a master at cherry picking and lying by omission. 2 things,..1) At the beginning of COVID-19 no one knew what we were dealing with. What the Trump administration attempted to do was to refuse immigration or tourist to enter the country and was called a racist. He tried to ease or avoid panic...2) Once Trump realized the severity of the original virus he established the *Warp speed initiative* to develop a vaccine. Trump was the right person at the right time and thanks to his business acumen we were able developed a vaccine in historically record time. Biden did not have a clue! Don't forget Obama left the cupboards bare. Don't forget more people died under Biden's watch. Do I hold Biden responsible for lost lives, of course not. The virus was going to run its course even with a vaccine.

I predicted Letitia James's/Engoron trial would be overturned, you scoffed at that. The Bragg case will follow the same trajectory. I mentioned this fact just to expose your TDS on steroids.

As far as Biden bringing inflation down, that's the equivalent of shutting the barn door after the horses escaped. Biden started his administration on the receiving end of a V type economic recovery and he fucked that up. He did what dems love to do, use a crisis to overspend sending inflation of to the races. Grocery prices will never come down to it's original before covid levels.

Now Elon's your buddy. Your predilection towards Elon's prediction of Trump spending 5 trillion is flawed as usual, why don't you wait till the end of his term. TDS on steroids. We know how inaccurate you are with your predictions.

I'm sorry you're in a wheelchair but if any opinion is tilted it's yours!

Then there's the Ukraine disaster.
Then the Afghanistan disaster.
Then there's the Israeli/Hamas/Iran disaster.
Then there's the Houthis taking pop shot at our military with virtually no retaliation.
Then there's the feckless immigration policy and open borders that we have to deal with today.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your regard for my failing health. Age and failing organs put me where I am, and that clock is ticking. While it affects me physically, at the moment, my mind remains lucid and coherent. Enough to see that your post is way more crammed with assertions than facts. Let's cherry-pick a few of your scattergun remarks to address here. Taking on all of this would require an extended essay, and I don't have the energy or time to do so today.

Let's start with COVID and Warp Speed: Trump didn’t invent the vaccine and clearly didn't acknowledge what his virus scientists warned him about. Pharmaceutical companies and existing research into mRNA platforms did the bulk of the work. Operation Warp Speed provided funding and logistics support, but vaccine distribution in late 2020 was chaotic — and Trump downplayed the severity of COVID throughout the virus's spread across America. A quick search of CDC records shows more than 400,000 deaths on the felon's watch before Biden even took office. Additional deaths on Biden’s watch came with variants spreading worldwide, not because he 'had no clue.' You seem to think that once the genie is out of the bottle, it's easy to put it back and have a lustful case of BDS for it. Trump only dealt with the virus for a very short time in comparison to the CDC efforts under Biden who handled it appropriately by all medical assessments. It was devastating and no one knows for certain what would have happened if Trump has trusted his medical experts instead of spouting nonsense about drinking bleach.

Let's juxtapose your credit to Trump for swift action, crediting his 'business acumen' for the rapid development of the vaccine to his actions under the current term. He has appointed a loon to oversee health services who shredded the virus program, dismissed everyone who oversaw research on such things, is dismantling childhood immunizations, and is driving up health costs for many citizens over his defunding of major health programs. We are heading back to the Stone Age, medically speaking. Kennedy is as much a liar as is Trump. Trump smirks over Kennedy's critics and appears pleased to allow this to proceed. Where will you be when the next pandemic hits? Heading for the grocery store shelves for bleach?

Next up, Obama’s cupboard's bare: A little more searching says this is plainly false. Obama left behind a pandemic playbook and an NSC pandemic response team, which the Trump administration disbanded in 2018. That’s documented, not cherry-picked, by multiple outlets, including Politico and Washington Post.

One more as I run out of steam, Inflation: The V-shaped recovery was fueled by COVID relief bills — including the $2.2 trillion CARES Act signed by Trump. [Yeah, team Trump. He did something good. Credit for that.] Prices surged globally after COVID and the Ukraine war, not solely because of Biden. Another dive into the Internet reveals that by early 2024, inflation had dropped to ~3%, near the Fed’s target, while unemployment remained at a historically low level. That’s not 'fucking it up.' That was Biden's team carefully restoring our nation closer to normalcy, all while your guy was sulking in Mar-a-Lago with horded boxes of classified documents.

The rest of your post is a grab-bag of grievances (Ukraine, Afghanistan, immigration, etc.) that deserve their own threads. But on COVID, the economy, and vaccines, the record is clear: Trump downplayed, mismanaged, and politicized the crisis, while Biden stabilized it. That’s not TDS — that’s the documented timeline.

If pointing out facts is 'TDS,' then sure, I’m terminal. But at least I didn’t inject bleach, hug the flag, and call it medicine. Your guy made pandemic advice sound like a bad Home Depot commercial being shot as ICE rounds up illegal workers seeking day jobs in the parking lots.
 
SkyBubble said:
Mine are facts. More than you've got.
Click to expand...
Well, another critic, today, says my facts are cherry-picked ones. So, we both have facts. Let's call all of them cherry pie ingredients based on national events. Yours are slanted; mine stand straight up under scrutiny. ;)
 
SkyBubble said:
Correct. I said the Obama economy wasn't good. You claimed otherwise. I posted articles fromthat time showing it wasn't, adn you attacked me for posting articles from that time.
Click to expand...

Nope, you said the economy was bad when Trump took over, obviously referring to this term in office because you went on to reference his tariff fetish and the Tax & Spend Bill. The year is 2025 and Biden was the previous president.

SkyBubble said:
The economy was bad when Trump took over; his tariffs haven't made it better, but worse, and so did the Big Spending Bill that he and The Johnson rammed through.
Click to expand...

Anyway, you’re correct that TrumpTariffs and the Tax & Spend Bill haven’t improved the economy.
 
Here in Texas, I'll tell you how the economy is going...

On all the major radio stations here in Houston, they're all playing public service announcements for the new Texas Suicide Prevention Hotline...dial 988.

"Everybody knows Texans stand up tall for what they believe in. The thing is, sometimes you just need a little help. blah blah blah wave the flag blah blah blah dial 988 before you pick up that chrome-plated Smith and Wesson and do something you're gonna regret.."
 
dmallord said:
Well, another critic, today, says my facts are cherry-picked ones. So, we both have facts. Let's call all of them cherry pie ingredients based on national events. Yours are slanted; mine stand straight up under scrutiny. ;)
Click to expand...
I provided actual evidence. You don't like the facts, so they're not facts.
 
MajorRewrite said:
Nope, you said the economy was bad when Trump took over, obviously referring to this term in office because you went on to reference his tariff fetish and the Tax & Spend Bill. The year is 2025 and Biden was the previous president..
Click to expand...
The economy was in bad shape when Trump took over both times, actually.
 
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