The Dom Lounge

[Netzach]

It starts with indignation at what I see and is fueled by my lack of self control.

Sometimes it's worth pointing out to someone being an asshole that he's so being, Even if it's an exercise in futility.

 

[JMohegan]

I find that a lot of women are stymied by trying to make people feel good who really aren't invested in them one way or the other, or even make "other people" who don't even exist outside their imaginations happy.

I agree with this.

And I too would really, really hate to be shackled this way.

 

[Netzach]

Does anyone else ever think that all this "authority for your benefit growth development and happiness" stuff, this "leadership" bent is really kind of like a manifest destiny argument for something that can be better explained by the fact that it busts a nut? Like "I'm taking over for your own good" when you really just want my coffee plantation?

Discuss.

 

[JMohegan]

Does anyone else ever think that all this "authority for your benefit growth development and happiness" stuff, this "leadership" bent is really kind of like a manifest destiny argument for something that can be better explained by the fact that it busts a nut? Like "I'm taking over for your own good" when you really just want my coffee plantation?

Discuss.

Are you talking about the "take her by the hand and lead her through life" flavor of D/s?

 

[Netzach]

Are you talking about the "take her by the hand and lead her through life" flavor of D/s?

Sure. Or the millions of other variants of anything other than "I bust a nut when I subjugate, and I like it." A lot of the relational insights aren't outside the scope of "vanilla" relationships. We support one another, listen to one another, ideally, get to know one another. That stuff doesn't go *away* when you start messing with the concept of authority, but it's almost like there's a pre-emptive response, assuming that a guy can't enjoy subjugating unless he's so socially maladjusted as to need reminding to be humane and caring and remotely normal in the process.

Kind of an extreme, but sometimes it looks that way, no?

 

[JMohegan]

When a person says, "My Dom ordered me to do X because he really wants to challenge me to push my limits and help me grow in my submission," what I'm really hearing is: "My Dom thought it would be hot to watch me suck off his friend."

Why there so often seems to be a need for euphemism, I don't know.

On the other hand, in some situations involving extraordinary amounts of "authority for your benefit growth development and happiness stuff" (and regardless of labels applied), it can sometimes seem difficult to determine who, exactly, is subjugating whom.

 

[midwestyankee]

Does anyone else ever think that all this "authority for your benefit growth development and happiness" stuff, this "leadership" bent is really kind of like a manifest destiny argument for something that can be better explained by the fact that it busts a nut? Like "I'm taking over for your own good" when you really just want my coffee plantation?

Discuss.

In his seminal work, On Language, SI Hayakawa made a very cogent argument about those who use language of the high moral ground to justify actions that are clearly not entirely moral. Of this use of language, Hayakawa argued that it is almost always a rationalization and a marketing pitch rolled into one oily smooth paragraph. Netz, I see your example in these terms.

 

[Netzach]

In his seminal work, On Language, SI Hayakawa made a very cogent argument about those who use language of the high moral ground to justify actions that are clearly not entirely moral. Of this use of language, Hayakawa argued that it is almost always a rationalization and a marketing pitch rolled into one oily smooth paragraph. Netz, I see your example in these terms.

Uh huh. But a-moral, I believe, rather than immoral.

I wonder often about where subs come in, too. I mean that construct is a huge turn on for SO many people. "He beats me because it betters me --" or your sharing example. Is it because people can't tolerate "he has me suck his friends off because he likes to watch and I'll go along with it?" Is it because we're worried about being the kind of person who gets off on (insert fetish.)

I just see a difference, and a BIG one in writing and guides and educational materials geared towards female Dominants (which emphasize responsible action, and basic safety, but focus a lot on how you ARE ok to want what you want and the mechanics for making what you want happen, maintaining and deepening submissive response, making your man HEEL because, well, you like that don't you?) versus what I see geared toward male dominants. Which almost seems apologetic at times over the fuel and fire and meat and potatoes of it all. If you had the male Dominant's typical essay drivers' manual it would go like this.

"Check your mirrors and align your seats in a position where you can see outside the mirrors. Are you sure you checked? No, the one on the right, too. Check the top one again. NO do not pull that parking brake yet, what are you some kind of animal? Adjust the seat height, wait wait. Get out the windex and clean that windshield....Dude. You have a shitty car. I don't think you should even be driving till you can buy something better than that bondo bucket."

 

[midwestyankee]

I suspect that a lot of people rationalize their behaviors far more than they realize. And don't you think that there is a fair amount of co-dpendency going on when this dynamic of "we do this because it's good for you/me" is the central reason for many of the sexual activities within a D/s relationship?

 

[Netzach]

I suspect that a lot of people rationalize their behaviors far more than they realize. And don't you think that there is a fair amount of co-dpendency going on when this dynamic of "we do this because it's good for you/me" is the central reason for many of the sexual activities within a D/s relationship?

I don't like to second guess people's relationships much, but I DO second guess things I read which purport to be a "how to do this" or "you should think about this in order to do this well" texts, you bet.

As for co-dependency - oooo. You're even more instigator than I am opening that up.

Not that all interdependence and enmeshment beyond "I am totally autonomous" is bad, per se.

But I like your impulse to question it in this context. I've always been a little personally uncomfortable with "deeply spiritual and transcendent" painplay as well as "personal expansion via cocksucking" - now I think those things might be related somehow. Cool.

 

[midwestyankee]

I don't like to second guess people's relationships much, but I DO second guess things I read which purport to be a "how to do this" or "you should think about this in order to do this well" texts, you bet.

As for co-dependency - oooo. You're even more instigator than I am opening that up.

Always a bad thing? Line between healthy interdependence and co-dependency?

I would never try to second guess someone else's relationship either, but I do have private musings about some - particularly after I read certain posts elsewhere that have this "it's for my own good" theme dripping through them.

I'm not entirely sure that co-dependency is quite the right phrase here, but clearly there is a mutually supportive dynamic going on when two partners engage in this sort of joint rationalization. As for whether or not it's healthy, I don't think that's for me to judge without knowing much more about a given relationship.

 

[Netzach]

I would never try to second guess someone else's relationship either, but I do have private musings about some - particularly after I read certain posts elsewhere that have this "it's for my own good" theme dripping through them.

I'm not entirely sure that co-dependency is quite the right phrase here, but clearly there is a mutually supportive dynamic going on when two partners engage in this sort of joint rationalization. As for whether or not it's healthy, I don't think that's for me to judge without knowing much more about a given relationship.

Makes sense. And yeah, I won't deny personal "huh, hmm." in regard to other people's business.

 

[BiBunny]

I suspect that a lot of people rationalize their behaviors far more than they realize. And don't you think that there is a fair amount of co-dpendency going on when this dynamic of "we do this because it's good for you/me" is the central reason for many of the sexual activities within a D/s relationship?

I'm not totally Domme, but I've just got to chime in here.

The "We do this because it's good for you/me" makes me want to hurl myself off a bridge. I've only played with submissives, never had one of my own (someday, dammit!), but I refuse to believe that once I own someone, I'll suddenly have God-like powers to make decisions for that person. He's been making his own decisions for some time now; he doesn't need my input for anything that doesn't directly concern our relationship. I'm not infallible by any means, and I'm not about to set myself up to make a total ass of myself when I do fail. And fail I will because I am only human.

I think this attitude of mine is one reason that I have yet to find a sub who suits me. I don't want to hold anyone's hand and lead him/her through life. I don't want to be anybody's savior. I don't want to be the only reason he/she wakes up in the morning. I want to enrich the other person's life at the same time he/she enriches mine. That is all. To attach any other significance to it seems, to me, to be the height of arrogance.

But, then, I find that I'm a lot more honest about my desires than many, and definitely more honest about them than probably 99% of people in my age bracket. Another thing I find incredibly distasteful that often goes along with that "Dom/me knows best" attitude is the way many dominants set their submissives up for failure so they can punish them. To me, that is so, so, so, SO very manipulative. If you wanna beat me, just say so. I respond a hell of a lot better to brutal honesty than I do to posturing bullshit. I intend to treat my hypothetical sub the same way.

 

[midwestyankee]

Makes sense. And yeah, I won't deny personal "huh, hmm." in regard to other people's business.

There is a small coterie of subs/slaves on a blogging site that I frequent who trot out the "my master is helping me become a better sub/slave every day by making me do X" shtick and at times I just have to walk away from the keyboard to keep myself from gagging in print.

 

[NALA CAYENNE]

There is a small coterie of subs/slaves on a blogging site that I frequent who trot out the "my master is helping me become a better sub/slave every day by making me do X" shtick and at times I just have to walk away from the keyboard to keep myself from gagging in print.

Excuse me everyone, sub entering room to comment *head bowed*

I was skimming the thread and just want to make one comment then I'll leave the room quietly...

I don't give my Dom credit for helping me become a better sub. What I do credit him for is helping me to free what has always been inside me, be proud of who I am and to not let anyone take that pride away from me.

*head still bowed*

Thank you for allowing me to speak...I'm leaving now...

 

[somberReality]

I agree with Sandia on many points.

I would also like to say that I wish there were more male doms here voicing their thoughts and opinions.

Being a straight, submissive female - and new to the scene at that! - some of the things that I'm most interested in reading about aren't going to come from the women on this board. The best shot I've had at understanding more is from other sub female POV's.

That's all fine and good, but if you're lurkin' around tryin' to get more info, it kinda sucks when all the men are hiding out, afraid of being bashed!!

sneaks back out to the "hen house"...

I agree with this one. I'm still looking into the lifestyle myself as a submissive.

 

[Netzach]

Excuse me everyone, sub entering room to comment *head bowed*

I was skimming the thread and just want to make one comment then I'll leave the room quietly...

I don't give my Dom credit for helping me become a better sub. What I do credit him for is helping me to free what has always been inside me, be proud of who I am and to not let anyone take that pride away from me.

*head still bowed*

Thank you for allowing me to speak...I'm leaving now...

That's cool.

I prefer to deal with boys and girls who got OK with themselves before they got to me - who are pretty sure as shit proud of and OK with their sexuality. I also bet that you were probably more OK with yourself than you may paint, because self-confidence is not some kind of gift that anyone, therapist, Dominant, mom or professor can "give" you.

If you're a Domme, that's usually greeted with "ok, cool, your preference."

And I think that if a *guy* expresses this preference, he gets bashed as someone who isn't really D/s or doesn't care.

The rescuer emotional miracle worker fantasy Dom is basically presented as the best kind and the real kind. And that's a really shitty expectation to put on a whole class of people. If the first word out of everyone's mouth in regard to what I, as a Domme ought to be, is "nurturing" rather than something like "secure" or "strong" or "demanding" you bet the gagging gestures will commence.

Just an obervation from the distaff handle end.

 

[Homburg]

The rescuer emotional miracle worker fantasy Dom is basically presented as the best kind and the real kind. And that's a really shitty expectation to put on a whole class of people.

This is my role in one of my relationships. I like it, sure, but sometimes it gets heavy.

--

I find it interesting that this thread started as a celebration of Things MDomly and turned into a rather interesting discussion of ego, etc.

 

[Netzach]

This is my role in one of my relationships. I like it, sure, but sometimes it gets heavy.

--

I find it interesting that this thread started as a celebration of Things MDomly and turned into a rather interesting discussion of ego, etc.

From enjoying it myself sometimes I urge you to take some time for yourself when it does "get heavy" - I find that a good red flag that lets me know when interdependent slavery is in danger of becoming codependent burden.

 

[Homburg]

From enjoying it myself sometimes I urge you to take some time for yourself when it does "get heavy" - I find that a good red flag that lets me know when interdependent slavery is in danger of becoming codependent burden.

Well, we've been taking some time lately, and I am finding it helpful. Your advice is good stuff, and I think I would be heeding it even if we weren't currently doing just that. Sometimes it is tough for me to know when to back off and give myself room to breathe. Okay, most of the time. This is why I push so hard in work, lifting, biking, etc, and wonder why I get wrecked...

Thank you for the advice. You really seem to have your stuff together, Netzach.

 

[incubus_dark]

Hello again all, back from work. Sorry if I appeared to ignore anybody, but I don't usually have time to live, at work.

I really have to agree with Netz (it's becoming a habit but it doesn't mean I love you); the, "I'm punishing you to make you a better sub / person", line is worn way thin, and seems to me to be a means to rationalize away the embarresment people feel from the somewhat socially frowned upon stance of, "I'm whipping you because I like the way you squirm and squeal, and the look of pain on your face gets me off lots". If I tell my sub to blow or otherwise make herself available for my friend, it's because the sight or idea of this gets me off. It's not because I want to expand her horizons and broaden her repertoire of human experience. When I tell her to do such things, she does so because her personal bent or fetish is such that obeying me in this gets her off, one way or another. Not because she believes it will forge her into a superior and more complete human being.

I often trawl through online BDSM resources in the hope of finding some original idea, or at least one new to me, that I can spin into a new and interesting game; after all, one occasionaly becomes bored with one's own imaginings, nomatter how perfervid. I rarely find anything truly useful, and almost never on a site that espouses this, "we're doing it for their own good", posture (perhaps I just don't know the right sites to look up). I suspect that from the perspective of a dom, it's basically self defeating, and more suited to the timid wee thing that takes a tentative swipe at their poor sub with a fluffy pink whip, then pauses to see if perhaps it might not have hurt a bit much, and then wonders if they'll be in trouble after the scene.

Alright so you (being some quotidian stalwart of society) think I'm a pervert. I don't care. That's why BDSM or whatever you want to call it is considered a sub- or counter-culture. We don't want to associate with your sort in this aspect of our lives, so nomatter how chic it's suddenly become, sod off and play with your own kind and stop trying to shmooz your way into my world then pass judgements which, by and large, are entirely puerile.

 

[Homburg]

I really have to agree with Netz (it's becoming a habit but it doesn't mean I love you); the, "I'm punishing you to make you a better sub / person", line is worn way thin, and seems to me to be a means to rationalize away the embarresment people feel from the somewhat socially frowned upon stance of, "I'm whipping you because I like the way you squirm and squeal, and the look of pain on your face gets me off lots".

I don't get this either. I don't tend to use physical punishment for, well, punishment. I hit her because I want to, not because she did something incorrectly. I don't need an excuse to spank her. I'm doing it because I get off on it.