The "Do Nothing" Crowd

[zipman]

As usual, the anti-american "do nothings" have degenerated the thread into finger pointing and blame with not one single idea or suggestion. They live in the past and thrive on their self-righteous hatred.

Pretty much the sick fucks you pegged them as.

Ishmael

Sick fucks is your language and your feelings, not mine.

This thread was designed to have a conversation about the cost of doing nothing. I have no desire to insult them any more than I have in participating in miles' crowing threads. Such discussions go nowhere.

While you are free to post whatever opinions you have, don't speak for me if you don't understand my position.

Thanks.

 

[zipman]

I find it interesting that Korea has specifically tageted the US for recognition. They have continually attacked the US on every political and diplomatic level at their disposal. Other than backhanded references to South Korea and Japan, no other nation has been the focus on North Korea's actions.

And all of a sudden, this is the ONE issue that the US wants the rest of the world to handle?

Personally, this sounds more like a pissing match than a global issue. I understand that there are nuclear weapons involved, but that doesn't make it a global issue. If you don't believe me, please turn in your notebooks to India v. Pakistan re: nuclear proliferation. You will see that although this has garnered the world's attention, it hasn't garnered the world's intervention.

When the US takes unilateral action, the world says we are trying to dominate it. When we look to the UN to do "what it was designed for" that too, is not the right thing to do.

So what are you saying, should the US be involved in the N. Korean dispute or should the UN be responsible. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Peace is more than the absence of war.

 

[zipman]

When Bush took office, then later declared NK part of the Axis of Evil, he had already cancelled the Clinton deal.....which of course was seen by NK as a breach. NK then recommenced their weapons programs because bombs are their major export with which they buy food...they have no self-sustaining ability to feed themselves in NK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clinton relaxes U.S. sanctions against North Korea

North Korea's isolation has devastated its agrarian economy
September 18, 1999
Web posted at: 10:35 a.m. HKT (0235 GMT)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. President Bill Clinton eased strict economic sanctions against North Korea on Friday following Pyongyang's agreement to refrain from further ballistic missile testing.

It is the most significant U.S. gesture toward the communist government since the end of the Korean War in 1953. But analysts said it would bring only limited economic benefits to the impoverished country and its people.

U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright said the arrangement with North Korea starts the two countries "down a new and more hopeful road. It is a road that holds out the possibility of long-term stability and even eventual reconciliation on the Korean peninsula."

Albright cautioned, however, "If circumstances require that we go down a different road altogether, we will do so to defend our interests."

The move will allow "most consumer goods to be available for export to North Korea and will allow the importation of most North Korean-origin goods into the United States," White House press secretary Joe Lockhart said.

http://www.cnn.com/ASIANOW/east/9909/17/n.korea.02/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clinton's recent thoughts about NK on Larry King:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Give North Korea food: Clinton

The answer to the North Korean nuclear standoff is for an East Asian coalition to offer Pyongyang food, energy and the technology to grow food in exchange for an end to its nuclear programs, former US president Bill Clinton has said.

"North Korea is a poor country. They can't grow their own food. It's the most isolated society in the world. Their only cash crops are bombs and missiles," Clinton said on CNN's Larry King Live program.

"They know they can't use them, except to sell them because they need money," he said. "Nobody in the region wants them to have these weapons. The only reason they had weapons was either to sell them or to be paid not to sell them."

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_detail/0,1227,166790-1-9,00.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


I think Clinton's suggestion of a multilateral approach to NK still makes sense.

Note: NK wasn't sabre rattling until Bush named the country as terrorists and put the trade sanctions back in place...so yes, the USA has started this crisis with NK.

And it could have been avoided...possibly still can. Except you likely have the wrong people in Washington.


The guys you have prefer killing to talking, bombs to trade deals.

NK was labeled as a part of the axis of evil because we had knowldege that they had broken the deal and had restarted their nuclear program.

I too, prefer diplomacy to war. Food is not going to work, as N. Korea militarism dictates how they run their country. With 1 out of 7 people in the military and millions starving while the military is expanded and fed, NK doesn't seem concerned about their people.

Do you have any suggestions asides from buying them off with food which will go to the military anyways. What kind of international diplomacy or pressure would work?

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

It isn't enough to 'so something', you have to do the right thing. Sometimes, doing the wrong thing IS worse than doing nothing.

 

[Killswitch]

No alternative?

How about getting the fuck out of the U.N. protecting our own god damned borders, and cuddling up to the twits in Canada who have the largest oil reserves in the world. Fuck Geo economies and geo politics. Take care of our own, and ourselves.

Jesus christ......

Why do I have to pay 500 dollars a week in taxes to protect some asshole in Iraq, North Korea, or bumfuck egypt, when my roads are crap, my schools are crap, and our economy is going to hell.

 

[Killswitch]

This thread was designed to have a conversation about the cost of doing nothing.

The cost of doing nothing huh.....what about the cost of doing something we have no right, and no business butting into. Do you realize this is going to cost upwards of a trillion dollars before we are through if we even ever will be through.

I am sick and tired of protecting anyone but AMERICA.

Put those 300,000 troops we have in Iraq in our airports, and border crossings. Put the 100,000 we have in Germany, and Afghanistan and elswhere on the border to Canada, and stop these dirtbag arabs from coming thru Canada which is the weak link.

I say we take a you arent fucking coming here, and if you want to buy our shit this is the price motherfucker attitude. Close the borders, and start drillin Alaska.

 

[celiaKitten]

Thank you for responding in kind, zipman. I do appreciate it.

As with all other issues, there are the extreme ends (think Hanns/REDWAVE) who obviously have other hatreds in mind, that cloud their thinking on the topics at hand. The rest of us fall somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

I, for one, do recognize that Saddam needed to be dealt with. (refer to my previous post for a short list of my hesitation with this war.) I hope that we'll be able to clean up the messes made on the way to this war. So, it's a grudging support I give, and a suspicious one in regards to this administration. I hope that something can be learned from the mistakes made. The US isn't perfect, and didn't handle the pre-war days well.

But, that is my take on it - not that the war shouldn't happen, but the why's of it were never really answered. (no, I'm not asking for someone here to explain your version of it .. so cut it )

And, I know that, like me, there are people all along the line of varying support or protest.

I do understand that sometimes it takes an inflammatory post to get people talking - but this is part of a National conversation that greatly disturbs me. I'm hearing people in real life that are sounding more and more like busybody, hell, people on this board are starting to sound like him. I am not in full support of this war, and I do not support this administration at all. That does not make me anti-american, not patriotic or a traitor to my country. It doesn't make me an armchair general, or whatever other names that have been flung at me.

The moral condemnation of those who are in that patriot haze, where you must be in full support of everything USA - and don't you dare say a word against it .. trust me, is no easier to bear.

The short from the long: it ain't black 'n' white .. there's so many shades of grey in there.

 

[Killswitch]

Can I condemn your morals from behind in a tent on the shores of Lake Michigan this summer Celia?


Perhaps show you my patriot missle?

Shock and Awe you silly?

Who knows....maybe it could be a coalition thing too.

 

[celiaKitten]

Can I condemn your morals from behind in a tent on the shores of Lake Michigan this summer Celia?


Perhaps show you my patriot missle?

Shock and Awe you silly?

Who knows....maybe it could be a coalition thing too.

LMAO .. heh .. that's the best thing I've read all day: "show you my patriot missle" that really should be in your sigline.

 

[Killswitch]

LMAO .. heh .. that's the best thing I've read all day: "show you my patriot missle" that really should be in your sigline.

And since I am white, the tip is red, and my balls are blue....it really is a patriotic little thimble too.

It looks more like a grenade than a missle



P.S. There has to be a " My warhead is loaded with chemical weapons" joke in there somewhere.....lol

Or my weapon of mass disgustin, or weapon of mass good tastin.......bahhhhh

 

[celiaKitten]

heh, you're losin' it, man.