The Democrats need to soft-pedal social-cultural liberalism, play up economic populism

[Politruk]

If you do health care reform, and the health insurance companies are still in existence, that is how you know you have not done it right.

 

[UltraChad]

No, those are in the government.

Fixed it for you.

 

[MajorRewrite]

The way the pyramid scheme that is the United States capitalism model is structured (healthcare being part of it), I suspect an abrupt restructuring to a single payer government healthcare system would yield some negative consequences beyond the cutting out of the middlemen.

I also suspect that ^ is part of the reason President Obama compromised and settled for the ACA rather than going for single payer: Too many unknowns involved in such a drastic shift away from the current model.

It IS worth considering the fact that the ACA has been working relatively well, and the shift from the ACA to single payer may not be such a drastic move as it would have been before the ACA.



Still a fuckton of unknowns, but less than before.

There is no need to switch to a system with a lot of unknowns. That’s why I suggested copying a system already in use in another nation. They’re all far cheaper and get better outcomes than our system.

 

[AceDesSpades]

~~* previously posted *~~

Now, to the weeks ahead, I see it as an excellent time for the ruthless, ambitious and opportunistic to clean house. I see both parties going through similar, parallel, purges/purifications. Now, I just wish the Libertarians were just a touch more ruthless and ambitious for they have an opportunity.

This is not a nation of nationality/religion/race.
This is not a nation of “immigrants.”
This is a nation of ideas.
The first one.
Me/mine.

 

[AceDesSpades]

Democrats: Remember ME. Me votes, we don't...

 

[UltraChad]

There is no need to switch to a system with a lot of unknowns. That’s why I suggested copying a system already in use in another nation. They’re all far cheaper and get better outcomes than our system.

No reason blue states can't do that.

I mean if nations with as few as 400k people and the GDP of a Miami suburb (Iceland) can manage, then the great states of California or NY and their AMAZINGLY PERFECT (D) leadership can lead the way, lead from the front and show everyone how it's done better FOR LESS!!!! Right??

Why don't they?

 

[AceDesSpades]

Juan would think so...

 

[MajorRewrite]

No reason blue states can't do that.

I mean if nations with as few as 400k people and the GDP of a Miami suburb (Iceland) can manage, then the great states of California or NY and their AMAZINGLY PERFECT (D) leadership can lead the way, lead from the front and show everyone how it's done better FOR LESS!!!! Right??

Why don't they?

Because states can’t set their own healthcare policy.

 

[UltraChad]

Because states can’t set their own healthcare policy.

Why not? What stops them from having a public HC system?

Romneycare did it in Mass for a long time.

Pretty sure a number of CA cities still operate public clinics/hospitals. I'm fairly certain MN, NH and PA all still have some public hospitals/clinics of some kind as well.

Hint: It's not healthcare they really want......

 

[Politruk]

~~* previously posted *~~

Now, to the weeks ahead, I see it as an excellent time for the ruthless, ambitious and opportunistic to clean house. I see both parties going through similar, parallel, purges/purifications. Now, I just wish the Libertarians were just a touch more ruthless and ambitious for they have an opportunity.

This is not a nation of nationality/religion/race.
This is not a nation of “immigrants.”
This is a nation of ideas.
The first one.
Me/mine.

No, the U.S. is a nation-state like France, not an idea-state like the USSR.

A nation is not its political constitution. France has had five monarchies, five republics, and a fascist dictatorship. Yet through it all, France remains France. And a monarchical or theocratic or Communist or fascist America would remain America.

 

[UltraChad]

No, the U.S. is a nation-state like France, not an idea-state like the USSR.

A nation is not its political constitution. France has had five monarchies, five republics, and a fascist dictatorship. Yet through it all, France remains France. And a monarchical or theocratic or Communist or fascist America would remain America.

Why do you keep pushing this lie??

You've been stuffed on this and several other blatantly obvious issues yet you come back the next day and repeat the same insane busllhit.

Stop it, get some help.

 

[Lazaran]

There is no need to switch to a system with a lot of unknowns. That’s why I suggested copying a system already in use in another nation. They’re all far cheaper and get better outcomes than our system.

It wasn’t the system I was referring to, but the negative unknown ripple effects of the switch in the workplace / workforce, and in the financial markets, etc.

Also:

America is a whole lot bigger and more complex than the European countries (and Canada) with single payer health programs / systems that are most often cited as examples of single payers’ success. (Those programs also have their own issues).

I’m not saying it wouldn’t work / be better, but it wouldn’t be a smooth transition, imho. (Especially with opposing forces inevitably actively working to undermine such a transition.)

JMTCW.

 

[Politruk]

Why do you keep pushing this lie??

It's how nations work. The USSR goes away, Russia remains. A nation is not its political constitution, it is a culture.

A nation can exist without a state. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was carved up by its neighbors in the 18th Century, but the Polish nation survived under foreign rule.

On these shores -- there is not a Texan nation and a Californian nation, there is only an American nation.

 

[Politruk]

Hint: It's not healthcare they really want......

Then what?

 

[MajorRewrite]

Hint: It's not healthcare they really want......

Do they really want to steer hurricanes, turn boys into girls at school during lunch break, cancel Christmas, drink the blood of babies, and eat the pets?

 

[RandyRebecca]

Trump won the election because he talked about inflation and the need to bring prices down, talked about the need to bring back industrial blue collar jobs, talked about the waste of billions and billions of dollars on wars and the need to stop that. The Democrats basically gaslit the public by saying "the economy is great" as people lived from paycheck to paycheck.

Republicans were basically saying "We hear you, we know that you're struggling because of the Democrat administration and that you're in pain, but we might not do anything about it beyond anger and rage". Democrats were saying "You don't have a problem, you ARE the problem. We want to make you more like us. Oh, and the economy is great by the way". Is it really surprising that so many people prefer the Republican message to the Democrat one?

I don't think the Democrats have any idea about working class Americans. They are too far gone, i.e. decades of living in gentrified ivory tower bubbles in big Democrat cities where they themselves are so rich that they never have to worry about the cost of living. I expect the Democrats to double down, like after 2016, on their current course. They will seek to keep the big corporate donations flowing in by blaming anyone but the rich, and leaning more and more heavily into the culture war BS.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Do they really want to steer hurricanes, turn boys into girls at school during lunch break, cancel Christmas, drink the blood of babies, and eat the pets?

Keep that up. It's working so well.

 

[Politruk]

Do they really want to steer hurricanes, turn boys into girls at school during lunch break, cancel Christmas, drink the blood of babies, and eat the pets?

Well, of course, we all want to drink the blood of babies.

 

[UltraChad]

It's how nations work. The USSR goes away, Russia remains. A nation is not its political constitution, it is a culture.

No it's not. The USSR, like the USA is an ideological one based on it's political constitution.

No a single culture or ethnic group.

A nation can exist without a state. .

Not for long, and not an ideological one.

Poland understands this probably more than the others, that's why they are building themselves instead of trying to dissolve into the globo-commie goo of totally worthless, toothless bitch states that comprise the EU and go bye bye the second the USA pulls it's blanket of security.

On these shores -- there is not a Texan nation and a Californian nation, there is only an American nation.

No, there is no "American Nation", the USA stomped those guys and fucked their bitches until very few exist today.

 

[UltraChad]

Do they really want to steer hurricanes, turn boys into girls at school during lunch break, cancel Christmas, drink the blood of babies, and eat the pets?

No, they want to take everyone's MONEY.

Same as it ever was. Because you guys don't know how to get paid any other way than to send the government to rob someone else for you. Bunch of worthless fucks can't even do their own thieving....LOL

 

[AceDesSpades]

No, the U.S. is a nation-state like France, not an idea-state like the USSR.

A nation is not its political constitution. France has had five monarchies, five republics, and a fascist dictatorship. Yet through it all, France remains France. And a monarchical or theocratic or Communist or fascist America would remain America.

I merely suggest that you put down Noam and review you history or just go to perving on Noem...

Her eyes are fascinating.

 

[AceDesSpades]

Trump won the election because he talked about inflation and the need to bring prices down, talked about the need to bring back industrial blue collar jobs, talked about the waste of billions and billions of dollars on wars and the need to stop that. The Democrats basically gaslit the public by saying "the economy is great" as people lived from paycheck to paycheck.

Republicans were basically saying "We hear you, we know that you're struggling because of the Democrat administration and that you're in pain, but we might not do anything about it beyond anger and rage". Democrats were saying "You don't have a problem, you ARE the problem. We want to make you more like us. Oh, and the economy is great by the way". Is it really surprising that so many people prefer the Republican message to the Democrat one?

I don't think the Democrats have any idea about working class Americans. They are too far gone, i.e. decades of living in gentrified ivory tower bubbles in big Democrat cities where they themselves are so rich that they never have to worry about the cost of living. I expect the Democrats to double down, like after 2016, on their current course. They will seek to keep the big corporate donations flowing in by blaming anyone but the rich, and leaning more and more heavily into the culture war BS.

I can sum that up in four famous words: I feel your pain...

:cue saxophone:

 

[MajorRewrite]

Why not? What stops them from having a public HC system?

Romneycare did it in Mass for a long time.

Pretty sure a number of CA cities still operate public clinics/hospitals. I'm fairly certain MN, NH and PA all still have some public hospitals/clinics of some kind as well.

Hint: It's not healthcare they really want......

Romneycare was just subsidized payments to private insurance. Basically it was an early version of Obamacare. Not comparable to the healthcare systems in the other developed countries.

The existence of public hospitals has nothing to do with the issue. Public hospitals generate revenue through the same methods as private hospitals.

The fact remains that states can’t implement their own healthcare systems.

 

[Rightguide]

After all, in the long run, liberal victory in the culture wars is inevitable.

In the economic sphere -- not so much. That's the fight that counts.

If you want the votes of te working class, you have to shut up about identity politics. You have to fight the plutocracy.

If you defeat the plutocracy, everything else will take care of itself and the culture war will quietly die away.

Right now they just need to shut up and get out of the way.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Right now they just need to shut up and get out of the way.

Comrade RightGuide wants to repress speech, just like in mother Russia