The "Daddy Dom" and the "Incest Assumption"

[LittleJade]

Most of us who enjoy Daddy/little girl relationships, have come up against the assumption that there's something fundamentally fucked up about us- that we would want to be with our father or daughter. There's this belief that anyone who participates in this sort of relationship, is doing so because they harbour incestuous thoughts, feelings, tendencies, etc.

I recently participated in a discussion on another forum, on this subject, and I wanted to share with you my response to it. I'm posting this here because, well, to be frank, my post on that forum was a rare moment of eloquence on my part. I don't often get to explain things as well as I feel I explained this, in this post.

For the longest time, I rebelled against the idea of a Daddy Dom. I was in a space where I needed a Dom that was nearly clinical- one that used me for his pleasure, without love being a part of the equation... and I found an abundance of those types of Doms.

Then I found the Doms that could love, and still maintain a purely Dominant role (without the Daddyness).

Then I met a Dom that changed that, entirely... he treated me better than I'd ever been treated by a Dominant. He made me feel safe. Made me feel loved. He made me want to please him, made me want to hide in his lap when the world went wrong, made me want to be his absolute everything... and I was. He didn't infantalize me at all- I was still the strong, proud woman I had always been... but he made me safe enough that I could take down some of the walls, and BE the little girl that I have inside of me... I didn't have to hide that. That level of safety... that level of absolute trust, comfort... it was new, and it was beautiful. He was gentle- he was not a sadist, and he only rarely indulged my masochistic side. He disciplined with lessons, and with his hands.. not with ropes and bondage. He taught me, he loved me LIKE a daughter- wanted only the best for me, pushed me to reach my potential, etc.

Lust for this man came naturally- and it wasn't a physical thing. It was a desire to absolutely give every part of me, to this person that had not hurt me. To this person that WOULD not hurt me. I wanted nothing more than to look up into his face, and call him Father, while he petted my hair gently, and called me his little one.

It never broached on incestuous, for me.. for us... I called him Father, but it's like soldiers in ancient times called their superiors 'Father'... it's a respect thing, a devotion thing, not an incest thing. I have NO desire to ever have any kind of relationship with my dad, other than a real father-daughter relationship. I'm not interested in ever crossing those lines with my family.

But a Daddy... a Daddy is different. Those lines don't exist.. and he becomes your father without being your father. He becomes your shelter, your rock, your guide, your teacher, your warden, your lover, friend, your heart and soul...

 

[catalina_francisco]

I guess you will find why most make those assumptions is because so many (even some on this forum) who identify as being in a D/g relationship (or wanting to be) also post pics or talk about how they often dress in little girl style clothing, wear their hair in cute pigtails etc., and basically set out to look (and sometimes act) like a little girl even though they may be 40yo, and that their partner likes it this way. When you see that, it is difficult to see how it has nothing to do with age dynamics dwelling in the realm of child and adult. Doesn't mean it is, but I still find it difficult in these situations to understand if it has nothing to do with child/adult relationship dynamics why one person dresses as a child or childlike, and the other wants it that way.

If it is a matter of acting out a fantasy why not say so just as those who role play rape do...it doesn't mean they would even willingly be part of a rape, but it is a safe way of living a fantasy. The people who say for them it is about the nurturing etc., in a way which works for them I can understand, and many of them do not include the behaviour and dress of children to live in that nurturing environment. It just confuses me when I see someone in a pinafore with fake freckles on their face and pigtails and little girl pose saying it has nothing to do with identifying with children.

Catalina

 

[Softouch911]

Little Jade, I agree your post is well worth a re-post. Very well said, indeed.

Lots of reasons for the confusion people like you and me, and many others, experience. Yeah, there are lots of folks who are into age play in addition to finding the nurturing. Locally, there is even a play group devoted to it! And some are into the incest pattern ... as Catalina, and many others, will point out.

Makes it hard for the rest of us, I suppose, and frustrating. But you did a fine job, and I hope you don't mind my reffing it on occasion.

You were speaking of your personal experience, but I'm an occasional sadist and would like to drop my oar in your water.

The point is that D/lg speaks of nurturing and growth ... whatever else is involved depends on the attitudes and preferences of the parties involved. Dominance and submission cut a wide, wide swath.

Thanks,
ST

 

[HottieMama]

The point is that D/lg speaks of nurturing and growth ... whatever else is involved depends on the attitudes and preferences of the parties involved. Dominance and submission cut a wide, wide swath.

May i borrow this???? This is the point i try to hit on consistently and seem to miss the mark...

VERY, VERY well put!!!!!

 

[Homburg]

Age Play squicks me badly. But I am beginning to see that the dynamic that I share with "w" is a very D/g sort of thing.

 

[Betticus]

I liked that post.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I really enjoyed this post... but I must say that I would be miserable long term if I did not get spanked or other more saddistic things done to me on a regular basis..

 

[CutieMouse]

I really enjoyed this post... but I must say that I would be miserable long term if I did not get spanked or other more saddistic things done to me on a regular basis..

A) what rule says a nurturing D/g relationship can't involve spanking and sadistic acts?

B) what rule says a nurturing, supportive D/s relationship has to ID as Daddly/girl?

With all the D/g threads on the board lately, I keep seeing over and over how nurturing the D/g dynamic is, but everything that's offered as an example of said nurturing/the special whatever that makes a D/g relationship a D/g relationship, is stuff that *to me* is simply a part of a D/s relationship, that site side by side with acts of service, floggings, spankings, bondage, dating, laughing, snuggling, power exchange, etc... which is why I don't ID as D/g.

 

[wicked woman]

<snip>

B) what rule says a nurturing, supportive D/s relationship has to ID as Daddly/girl?

With all the D/g threads on the board lately, I keep seeing over and over how nurturing the D/g dynamic is, but everything that's offered as an example of said nurturing/the special whatever that makes a D/g relationship a D/g relationship, is stuff that *to me* is simply a part of a D/s relationship, that site side by side with acts of service, floggings, spankings, bondage, dating, laughing, snuggling, power exchange, etc... which is why I don't ID as D/g.

CM you type faster than I do and put it probably better than I could, but that was exactly my thought. Personally I don't see nurturing limited to D/g dynamics. It's part of what I cherish in my D/s relationship but I'd never suggest it's D/g.

 

[Betticus]

It's been my experience with my lil chickie friends.. not lovers or gf's, keep that in mind. When they get to know me and we trust each other, they see who I am inside and eventually they relax around me when we're alone and several of them just refer to me as daddy. Nothing sexual or ageplay, they just feel safe and loved and know that I value them as human beings and cherish their friendship.

They let the walls down, all the defenses and leave themselves completely vulnerable with me. I think the hugs go in a lot deeper that way, right down to where they are needed most.

 

[HottieMama]

they see who I am inside and eventually they relax around me when we're alone and several of them just refer to me as daddy. Nothing sexual or ageplay, they just feel safe and loved and know that I value them as human beings and cherish their friendship.

They let the walls down, all the defenses and leave themselves completely vulnerable with me. I think the hugs go in a lot deeper that way, right down to where they are needed most.

Betticus...that's just the sweetest thing ever.

And from the "little" side of the equation...Daddy hugs and comfort works like nothing else.

 

[alexanna]

It's been my experience with my lil chickie friends.. not lovers or gf's, keep that in mind. When they get to know me and we trust each other, they see who I am inside and eventually they relax around me when we're alone and several of them just refer to me as daddy. Nothing sexual or ageplay, they just feel safe and loved and know that I value them as human beings and cherish their friendship.

They let the walls down, all the defenses and leave themselves completely vulnerable with me. I think the hugs go in a lot deeper that way, right down to where they are needed most.

Now I feel all squishy and misty.

 

[SheDevilShay]

Now I feel all squishy and misty.

So do I... we had to go visit my dom's dad in the hospital yesterday... he's been battling an illness for the last 2 years and probably won't make it through the night....


The hardest thing I had to do was watch my dom be in pain over ihs father.. itp ut me in tears and I never cry... the hardest thing for me to do in a long time was to allow him to comfort me and hold me... I'd rather experience "pain" than comfort ... comforting hruts more....


When youre defenses are down and vulunerable.. they do "feel" so much more intense and it hruts almost as bad as physical punishment... it can be veyr hard for someone to accept simple things like a hug...

I never let anyone hug me as a child.. i'd turn or pull away....

Its been a big step in our relationship for me to ask for hugs from him, and allow him to hold me....

 

[Etoile]

A) what rule says a nurturing D/g relationship can't involve spanking and sadistic acts?

B) what rule says a nurturing, supportive D/s relationship has to ID as Daddly/girl?

With all the D/g threads on the board lately, I keep seeing over and over how nurturing the D/g dynamic is, but everything that's offered as an example of said nurturing/the special whatever that makes a D/g relationship a D/g relationship, is stuff that *to me* is simply a part of a D/s relationship, that site side by side with acts of service, floggings, spankings, bondage, dating, laughing, snuggling, power exchange, etc... which is why I don't ID as D/g.

I suspect that when push comes to shove, the answer for many people is being absolved of responsibility. "Oops, I didn't mean to do it, I'm just a bad little girl, Daddy has to correct me!" I think a lot of it has to do with being allowed to be immature at specific times. Call me controversial, but that just sounds like a bratty sub to me. I see a lot of people posting here saying it's a role for them, sometimes they are M/s and sometimes they are D/g, etc. Sorry, it sounds like an excuse to be a brat and the dom is putting up with it.

Maybe my experience with the Daddy world is too informed by the leather community, where Daddies expect a lot more of their boys and girls. Maybe I just think the idea of playing with immaturity and naughtiness should be labeled for what it is. In my world, a brat is not a girl. YMMV.

And just in case anybody wants to say "but Etoile, you don't understand!" let me point out that I lived a D/g relationship for about six and a half years. I still consider myself a girl even if that isn't my relationship dynamic anymore. I have strong opinions about D/g and I'm becoming less afraid to voice them.

 

[Daddyslilpet]

A) what rule says a nurturing D/g relationship can't involve spanking and sadistic acts?

There isn't one. As a matter of fact as has been pointed out, relationships are up to the individuals to decide (which I know you already know ).

B) what rule says a nurturing, supportive D/s relationship has to ID as Daddly/girl?

Again there isn't one.



**The following is Not directed at anyone in particular**

This is a discussion board, why should it matter how many threads are made on a particular subject? If only one thread were made on each topic then this board would die out in no time flat because people would stop posting (I've seen if happen on other boards). If folks don't want to read on a particular subject like Daddy/girl relationships, then by all means don't open the threads. It's actually pretty simple.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I suspect that when push comes to shove, the answer for many people is being absolved of responsibility. "Oops, I didn't mean to do it, I'm just a bad little girl, Daddy has to correct me!" I think a lot of it has to do with being allowed to be immature at specific times. Call me controversial, but that just sounds like a bratty sub to me. I see a lot of people posting here saying it's a role for them, sometimes they are M/s and sometimes they are D/g, etc. Sorry, it sounds like an excuse to be a brat and the dom is putting up with it.

Maybe my experience with the Daddy world is too informed by the leather community, where Daddies expect a lot more of their boys and girls. Maybe I just think the idea of playing with immaturity and naughtiness should be labeled for what it is. In my world, a brat is not a girl. YMMV.

And just in case anybody wants to say "but Etoile, you don't understand!" let me point out that I lived a D/g relationship for about six and a half years. I still consider myself a girl even if that isn't my relationship dynamic anymore. I have strong opinions about D/g and I'm becoming less afraid to voice them.

I guess what I don't understand.. as a young woman (I am only 22) who's married to someone who's 13 years older then me....

He is more mature then I am in different area's... hence the need for him to want to help me grow... he's already been there. Sure.. i've taught him things too... don't get me wrong....

but brat and being young or even immature at times aren't nessicarily connected.. I have my total "teenage" immature fuck you moments.. and they get me in big trouble with him... but it slips out with out me thinking about it... I have a hot mouth and it gets me in huge trouble...

I understand what your saying, but I think the difference between being a "brat" is on purpose and being the little girl is an expansion of that... sometimes.. kids in general are obnoxious because they are testing bounderies and are learning their place.... If people are doing it on purpose in a sense that they think they "need" to act that way to be a lg...that is acting the part.. not "being" the part....

this may be a unpopular opinion... but I think that there's a difference between being roles and "acting" the part....

 

[SheDevilShay]

On a side note -- My Dom just got the call from his mom that his dad passed away at midnight last night...

I think it upsets me more then it does him (my dom's in the medical field so he's been prepared for this for along time...)

 

[Daddyslilpet]

On a side note -- My Dom just got the call from his mom that his dad passed away at midnight last night...

I think it upsets me more then it does him (my dom's in the medical field so he's been prepared for this for along time...)

So sorry to hear this.

 

[VelvetDarkness]

That was a beautiful and insightful OP

Personally I don't get on too well with my father and that's maybe why I'd be uncomfortable about calling Master 'Daddy.' Even if he wanted me to one day I really don't think I could manage it with a straight face.

I've always identified D/g rlationships as being treated like a child, or as though not capable of independence from the dom but LittleJade and others have said that isn't the case in their D/g relationships so that seems to have been a misconception on my part.

I agree with Catalina that pics posted by 'little girls' who are dressed up to look childlike do squick me out quite a bit. I have wondered whether this kind of play might be used by men who do have a sexual interest in children. I look very young for my age, I'm 28 and have to carry a passport to buy lottery tickets and alcohol. I'd be very sensitive to the idea that I might be courted as a partner specifically because I look like a child. I'm not suggesting at all that D/g relationships are unhealthy, I just have a hard enough time as it is getting treated as a grown up to be attracted to this kind of dynamic.

I hope that reads ok. It is not my intention to suggest that Daddy doms are closeted paedophiles at all. It's just a thought I've had from time to time.

*gets out flame proof brolly*

 

[Etoile]

I guess what I don't understand.. as a young woman (I am only 22) who's married to someone who's 13 years older then me....

He is more mature then I am in different area's... hence the need for him to want to help me grow... he's already been there. Sure.. i've taught him things too... don't get me wrong....

but brat and being young or even immature at times aren't nessicarily connected.. I have my total "teenage" immature fuck you moments.. and they get me in big trouble with him... but it slips out with out me thinking about it... I have a hot mouth and it gets me in huge trouble...

I understand what your saying, but I think the difference between being a "brat" is on purpose and being the little girl is an expansion of that... sometimes.. kids in general are obnoxious because they are testing bounderies and are learning their place.... If people are doing it on purpose in a sense that they think they "need" to act that way to be a lg...that is acting the part.. not "being" the part....

this may be a unpopular opinion... but I think that there's a difference between being roles and "acting" the part....

I'm sorry about the loss in your family.

I don't consider being a brat to be necessarily on purpose. I've been a brat and it wasn't on purpose. To me what you are describing is a SAM, a Sassy-Ass Masochist, somebody who does it to get in trouble deliberately. But being a brat is something that comes from inside you, not necessarily intentionally.

I'm not saying I find all girls to be brats. I'm just saying that a lot of what I see on this board seems to come from a desire to be absolved of responsibility and perhaps act differently at certain times than at others. Maybe it's just because I'm always a girl that I don't get it, but I sure do see a lot of people saying they are a girl "some of the time" and a lot of cutesy wootsy crap going along with it.

To me, being a girl is not about ageplay. It's not about being a brat. It's not a sometimes kind of thing. Being a girl is my identity and I don't think that's the case for a lot of the posters here. For example, does it make sense to anyone that I call myself a girl even though my relationship dynamic is not D/g? I'm not talking about being a girl without a Daddy, I mean that I have a relationship, it is not D/g, I am happy with it that way, and yet I am a girl. Does that make sense to anyone?

 

[VelvetDarkness]

On a side note -- My Dom just got the call from his mom that his dad passed away at midnight last night...

I think it upsets me more then it does him (my dom's in the medical field so he's been prepared for this for along time...)

Just saw this. I wasn't your biggest fan yesterday and I apologise. I'm very sorry for your loss SDS, losing parents is devastating at any age.

 

[SheDevilShay]

I'm sorry about the loss in your family.

I don't consider being a brat to be necessarily on purpose. I've been a brat and it wasn't on purpose. To me what you are describing is a SAM, a Sassy-Ass Masochist, somebody who does it to get in trouble deliberately. But being a brat is something that comes from inside you, not necessarily intentionally.

I'm not saying I find all girls to be brats. I'm just saying that a lot of what I see on this board seems to come from a desire to be absolved of responsibility and perhaps act differently at certain times than at others. Maybe it's just because I'm always a girl that I don't get it, but I sure do see a lot of people saying they are a girl "some of the time" and a lot of cutesy wootsy crap going along with it.

To me, being a girl is not about ageplay. It's not about being a brat. It's not a sometimes kind of thing. Being a girl is my identity and I don't think that's the case for a lot of the posters here. For example, does it make sense to anyone that I call myself a girl even though my relationship dynamic is not D/g? I'm not talking about being a girl without a Daddy, I mean that I have a relationship, it is not D/g, I am happy with it that way, and yet I am a girl. Does that make sense to anyone?

Yes.. I agree... In my dom's arm's.. I am allowed to let my walls break down and be the person I am on the inside... I am a mother, and have to mature and strong "all the time"... growing up I was a parent to my mother, cared for my greatgrandmother when she was sick and died... and then later cared for my grandparents because thats what they needed me to do...

I had my own apt at 16.. i've always been responsible, mature, i've never paid a bill late.. ever.

So for me... I am allowed to be the stupid, irresponsible immature person I never "got" to be once in a while in my dom's controlling enviroment to allow it to be safe.. it does not mean I act like I am 5 years old... its just sometimes he bring this immature side otu of me on purpose... because its been stuffed down so hard and has no where to go and has needed to be let out....

 

[Softouch911]

Maybe my experience with the Daddy world is too informed by the leather community, where Daddies expect a lot more of their boys and girls.

Actually, this is a point that should be stressed more often, imo.

The answer to a couple of CM's questions is that "no there are no rules" but there is a sort of tradition and while that doesn't make anything at all sacred, what it does do is explain the expectations some have, not only for "Daddy" but for "Dom" and for "Master," or 'little', 'sub,' 'slave' as well.

Just a thought.

ST

 

[Softouch911]

May i borrow this???? This is the point i try to hit on consistently and seem to miss the mark...

VERY, VERY well put!!!!!

Of course. I'm flattered!

ST

 

[Netzach]

Actually, this is a point that should be stressed more often, imo.

The answer to a couple of CM's questions is that "no there are no rules" but there is a sort of tradition and while that doesn't make anything at all sacred, what it does do is explain the expectations some have, not only for "Daddy" but for "Dom" and for "Master," or 'little', 'sub,' 'slave' as well.

Just a thought.

ST

I think we are bumping into that brick wall between the queer and the straight (ish) worlds. Leather versus BDSM.

The one no one wants to admit exists. We do some stuff differently. Just like guy dominants and femme dominants do. I like being someone who moves back and forth across it, personally, but it's there. I get a totally different vibe when someone who is queer and leather identified (both) says "I'm a girl" than when someone who is in a hetero or "not queer leather" relationship says it. Those people are coming from different places.