The Christianity of Christmas

[breakwall]

I was at the grocery store today and I noticed that they already have their Christmas stuff out. I remember a conversation I had with a frustratingly liberal friend of mine who said that Christmas decorations shouldn't be displayed in stores because it violates the rights of people with other faiths.

I have two issues with that, of course. One, isn't forcing a store to remove their Christian symbols a violation of the store owner's freedom of expression? Secondly, and more importantly, if the symbols consist of Santa Claus and Christmas Trees, are those really Christian symbols?

Is Christmas even really exclusively Christian anymore? It seems that the secular interests of Christmas have almost completely eclipsed the religious aspects of it.

Now, let's not get too far from the truth. People still believe that Christmas is a time for fellowship and an opportunity to show human kindness and compassion to our fellow human beings. But, it does that almost without mentioning religion at all.

Hasn't Christmas more or less been co-opted by seculars, not to mention business interests?

 

[Wilben]

Mostly business interests.


Only 9 weeks left, get your shopping done!

 

[breakwall]

Mostly business interests.


Only 9 weeks left, get your shopping done!

Lottery tickets for everyone.
Because that's what Baby Jesus would have wanted.

 

[marshalt]

You hate Christianity... we get it already...

 

[breakwall]

You hate Christianity... we get it already...

You keep saying that.
You don't read anything past the thread titles clearly.

I love Christianity. I love religion actually. I think religions, at their best, are the collective wisdom of human thought, and are wonderful wellsprings of sacred and valuable cultures.

It's when agendas get involved that religions turn ugly.

 

[silver gurl]

Mostly business interests.


Only 9 weeks left, get your shopping done!

Blah...I do my shopping in December. A few weeks ago, cards were already out in the stores. This weekend, trees, ornaments and gift wrap were on display. Too early for me.
I agree, it is now of mostly business interest. I love the holiday but the true meaning has been forgotten.

 

[English Lady]

I was at the grocery store today and I noticed that they already have their Christmas stuff out. I remember a conversation I had with a frustratingly liberal friend of mine who said that Christmas decorations shouldn't be displayed in stores because it violates the rights of people with other faiths.

I have two issues with that, of course. One, isn't forcing a store to remove their Christian symbols a violation of the store owner's freedom of expression? Secondly, and more importantly, if the symbols consist of Santa Claus and Christmas Trees, are those really Christian symbols?

Is Christmas even really exclusively Christian anymore? It seems that the secular interests of Christmas have almost completely eclipsed the religious aspects of it.

Now, let's not get too far from the truth. People still believe that Christmas is a time for fellowship and an opportunity to show human kindness and compassion to our fellow human beings. But, it does that almost without mentioning religion at all.

Hasn't Christmas more or less been co-opted by seculars, not to mention business interests?

In a word, yes.

The Christmas that the world as a whole celebrates now is completely secular -you may as well call it Xmas 'cos Christ doesn't appear in it at all.

It's sad, really sad. I love Christmas, adore it. It's a great time of year and each year I feel that the shops, the adverts and well, human greed spoil it more and more.

I mean, it's still October -why the fuck are we talking aout Christmas now, anyway?

 

[Wilben]

Lottery tickets for everyone.
Because that's what Baby Jesus would have wanted.

You forgot the bottle of hard liquor.

And maybe some hookers.

 

[Little Tighty]

It's all about holiday spirit and sales, you can walk down the aisle at Loblaws and have Chanukah decorations right next to the Christmas ones, holiday cards for all religions mixed in the same rack.

I think it shows unity and acceptance but mostly it's to attract the most buyers.

 

[breakwall]

Blah...I do my shopping in December. A few weeks ago, cards were already out in the stores. This weekend, trees, ornaments and gift wrap were on display. Too early for me.
I agree, it is now of mostly business interest. I love the holiday but the true meaning has been forgotten.

Let me reassert what I'm thinking.

I don't exactly believe that the 'true meaning' has been lost. I think that perhaps it's been adjusted to fit a wider demographic. By taking the intentions of the holiday, but eliminating the actual Christian references, it has become a more universal concept, applicable across different faiths and viewpoints.

You may be a secular humanist, atheist or agnostic, but you still might see the value of a moment in the calendar when we specifically stop and reassess the value of human kindness.

 

[breakwall]

You forgot the bottle of hard liquor.

And maybe some hookers.

I fondly remember the three gifts of the Magi:

Gin
Hookers
And Blow.

 

[marshalt]

You keep saying that.
You don't read anything past the thread titles clearly.

I love Christianity. I love religion actually. I think religions, at their best, are the collective wisdom of human thought, and are wonderful wellsprings of sacred and valuable cultures.

It's when agendas get involved that religions turn ugly.

But you can have an agenda?

 

[breakwall]

But you can have an agenda?

What's my agenda?

I'm not a religion.

 

[sufisaint]

The intolerance of Christianity is well documented through out history, even despite the message of Jesus's love and tolerance..but with that being said the liberal left is just as bad in their attack on christianity and so is their history in the tradition of Stalin and the like...let people do what they want with thier faith..its called freedom which both left and right do not want you to have...

 

[rimmy]

What's my agenda?

I'm not a religion.

Not for lack of trying, though.

 

[breakwall]

Not for lack of trying, though.

I want to start one, just so I can start declaring holidays.

Porn and Beer Day will be the second Saturday in April.
BBQ and Skinnydipping Day is in June.

 

[ksmybuttons]

Let me reassert what I'm thinking.

I don't exactly believe that the 'true meaning' has been lost. I think that perhaps it's been adjusted to fit a wider demographic. By taking the intentions of the holiday, but eliminating the actual Christian references, it has become a more universal concept, applicable across different faiths and viewpoints.

You may be a secular humanist, atheist or agnostic, but you still might see the value of a moment in the calendar when we specifically stop and reassess the value of human kindness.

I agree with you.

The celebration in winter was there before Christianity and without Christianity. The tree was pagan as are the basic lights.

One also doesn't need to buy into the consumerism unless one wants to. I make most of holiday gifts for others. Usually something simple, but from the heart. It gives me time to meditate on the people I care about as I'm working on whatever project.

 

[Saint Peter]

I am at Home Depot the other day. Two women see each other in the checkout line that I am waiting in, one in front of me the other in back of me. They obviously know each other and are chatting while waiting, I am stuck invisibly between them.

"I had to stop in and get some of these plastic holders." She holds up a bag of wire ties. "Bob needs them to attach the wreath I bought to the front of the Lexus."

I smirked. I could not help it.

 

[phrodeau]

As for visual symbolism, Christmas isn't as unpleasant as Easter.

Last month, many people got bent out of shape over displays of nooses. Displays of crosses don't seem to matter. But they're both objects whose primary use is for executions.

 

[rimmy]

I am at Home Depot the other day. Two women see each other in the checkout line that I am waiting in, one in front of me the other in back of me. They obviously know each other and are chatting while waiting, I am stuck invisibly between them.

"I had to stop in and get some of these plastic holders." She holds up a bag of wire ties. "Bob needs them to attach the wreath I bought to the front of the Lexus."

I smirked. I could not help it.

Nothing, and I mean nothing, shows a love for Jesus like a high end luxury automobile.

 

[bluntforcemama]

Mostly business interests.


Only 9 weeks left, get your shopping done!

Heh.

Christianity is simply trying to find it's niche in a world of capitalism. It needs the sustenance of hungry consumers, the false religious beliefs, etc., to survive in a world that is becoming increasingly more cynical and less belief-based. It's probably why they've also decided to line the government's pockets with their tithes.

 

[marshalt]

What's my agenda?

To start little threads like this. "HA! Christmas being taken away from the Christians! isn's that great!" and then throw in your little comments about how religion is so quaint and would be a fun hobby.


that's your agenda.

 

[Guest]

Let me reassert what I'm thinking.

I don't exactly believe that the 'true meaning' has been lost. I think that perhaps it's been adjusted to fit a wider demographic. By taking the intentions of the holiday, but eliminating the actual Christian references, it has become a more universal concept, applicable across different faiths and viewpoints.

You may be a secular humanist, atheist or agnostic, but you still might see the value of a moment in the calendar when we specifically stop and reassess the value of human kindness.

EXACTLY. We all know Christ wasn't born on December 25th, so what's the point of deluding ourselves that we're celebrating Christ's birth? Christmas is a holiday that has very little to do with Christ and a whole lot to do with many other things worth celebrating. Even non-Christians can appreciate a moment to reflect on love, family, and charity.

 

[Saint Peter]

Nothing, and I mean nothing, shows a love for Jesus like a high end luxury automobile.

With dead tree parts on the grille.

 

[marshalt]

so what's the point of deluding ourselves that we're celebrating Christ's birth?

Because some people are...