The Bratty Thread

[KoPilot]

I was not hating on anything now. I was just asking why is that skewed.

If everyone who is against something would stop posting in threads about that thing, that would only leave those who are delighted about it to sing praises. Not much of a discussion eh? Or is that exactly what you would like?

Um, yes, actually, that is what I'd like. It would be pretty neat to be able to talk about myself and my relationship without a bunch of armchair shrinks coming in here to announce that I'm really just manipulative, immature, emotionally stunted, selfish, and rude. Not that they've actually been in a relationship with a self-identified brat, but gosh if that ain't gonna stop them from trying to speculate about it.

God forbid I don't want to have to argue and claw my way around every damn thread around here.

 

[KoPilot]

Some of my favorite posts:

It is frustrating to constantly be simply dismissed by the "community". i've gotten pretty used to it since most of the "community" dismisses ageplay anyway.

Daddy says i am frustrated because i really don't want to be in charge but life is such that i have had to be. Its really hard to see a hole in leadership and not try to fill it, especially if it is a hole directly affecting me. i'm not a natural leader, i have become one by necessity and i admit i resent it.

So reasonable people tell me i should sit down and have a mature discussion about my needs and my issues. That feels like such a linear masculine approach to relationships to me and not really the way i want to intimately engage. i am more comfortable relating on a more primal level, i feel better understood if i can communicate more organically in the moment, to just say\do whatever it is that pops into my head and yes this only occurs with Daddy when its just the two of us. i am a highly controlled person but i get so tired of protecting everyone around me from me. To then have someone tell me i'm powerless, below them, dependent on them when i know damn well i could shrivel their balls in less than a paragraph is contradictory. If you can't take what i can dish out and hold your ground you are not more powerful than i am, sorry. It just doesn't work.

i feel like a Dominant wants a sub to take extreme and intense experiences they need to dish out but when the sub has anything they need to dish it has to be done in a civilized way. Fuck that.

i cannot be dominated if i am holding back and editing myself because it feels too much like me dominating myself and i'm done doing all the work. i want to spar and come out the loser. i don't want to give power, i want it taken from me.

Now all that said i understand a lot of this has to do with practicality. Would this dynamic work with someone you shared children and a mortgage with? Probably not. It works just fine for Daddy and i because we only see each other a few nights a month and its basically strictly a bedroom relationship. Although we chat and care about what is going on each others lives there is no real "vanilla" element to our relationship. Even if we were 24/7 though it would still be like this, he's just not afraid to deal with me on that level and its very easy for him to stop it when he chooses to, even when i am at my most stubborn. Once you dry fuck me in the ass once the threat of doing so again is a pretty powerful behavior modifier

I can get the brat thing. There's a lot of negative judgement here, but I think it is a result of external observation, not involvement. There are "good" brats and "bad" ones, and ZRT pretty much lands on that. The "good" ones know when to tone it down.

It is a mindset and a personality. Some people are not wired to bend their necks easily, and need to be forced to do so. In my personal experience, it was the result of some serious issues in the girl's past, and it could be dead frustrating at times. Hell, often. I'm not personally set up to deal with a serious brat. Still, once I identified the parameters for the behaviour, it was much less difficult to deal with the "brat" moments.

A good portion of it is "alternative" communication. A brat may just not be able to ask for an ass-whipping. Yeah, I know, communicate, communicate, communicate. Sure, when you're capable, that's great. Some people can't do that. They aren't wired that way, and thus they act out in minor ways to get the sort of attention they need.

I remember way back when I was in 4th grade, we watched a film about attention. The film said that all kids wanted, and needed, attention from their families. And there were two types of attention - Warm Fuzzies and Cold Pricklies. Warm Fuzzies were hugs and attaboys, the happy and good stuff that kids like. Cold Pricklies were yelling and anger, but still attention. In the film, they explained that a kid that didn't get enough Warm Fuzzies would probably act out until they got Cold Pricklies, because they needed at least some kind of attention.

For whatever reason, that lesson stuck with me. It's weird, because I had no problem getting positive attention from my folks, and never felt deprived. So I didn't identify with the concept. But the lesson? Yeah, it stuck with me, and it was useful towards understanding brat behaviour. A brat doesn't just want Warm Fuzzies. They're wired so that they need those Cold Pricklies too. In the case of the girl in my own background, her first relationship as a teenager was highly abusive, and her response to it was to occasionally need those sort of moments, else it didn't feel "real" enough to her. Yeah, it was kinda fucked up. And? Not everyone is well adjusted, or even moderately adjusted.

But as challenging as that relationship was, there was never a moment where I thought or said "This is not a "real" submissive." An odd submissive? Sure. Non-standard, definitely.

I personally think that a lot of the negativity going on here, aside from being a very valid response to perceived bad behaviour, is also based on "This is not compatible with my tastes." I don't personally have a problem with "This ain't my thing," as it is valid to have those feelings, and I certainly don't blame anyone for disliking the occasionally awful behaviour of brats in public. Goodness knows that it drove me nuts too. I'm not really cool with saying "This is NOT a submissive," though. Submissive is a pretty broad tent, and can be used to describe anything from bottom with submissive leanings to full TPE slave. Saying that a bratty submissive is not a submissive because of widgey communication is judgemental as all get out.

That said, I know more than one bratty type that isn't really comfortable with the term submissive anyway, so *shrug*. I just think that there's some unnecessary harsh going on here because aspects of this personality type don't quite jive with a given person's experience on what they find compatible.

Or, to provide a concrete example, Kajira Callista has described herself as a brat. Is she not a submissive?

 

[KoPilot]

And three more:

Also, the idea that being a brat is just an "act" is insulting. My personality, and the way I react to things, often fall under what people describe as "bratty" behavior. Yes, I'm sure that there are many people who "act" bratty, but when I react in an oppositional way, thats not some pre-thought out, conscious act thats done for ANY purpose, much less a manipulative one. The idea that my being myself is actually my being a manipulative masochist, who's only looking to get punished, is really insulting. I'm hardly even masochistic at all! Can we please at least recognize that somebody might just have a "bratty" personality? And that it might not always just be a manipulative "act"? Just because that's the only type of "brat" that you've come across, does not mean that every single submissive (yes, SUBMISSIVE) who acts bratty is just "acting" obnoxious to get a whipping.

If you don't like brats, fine, no one says you have to like them and have a relationship with one, but please at least try to realize that not every brat is some manipulative masochistic bitch.

At least try to take the time to understand bratty behavior the way you took the time to understand doormat psychology. Its no sweat off your balls, is it? No. Its not.

Repeatedly in case he turns into a wuss while i'm not looking. i change... all the time. i am not constant therefore its hard for me to understand that other people might be. i don't believe in my ability to submit and obey long term therefore i need the reassurance they can handle me and i need it over and over and over again.

Honestly though i think most people over estimate the inconvenience this really is. It takes Daddy all of about 3 minutes to get control of an out of control ataxia.girl. He's bigger. He's stronger. He's not afraid to just grab me, flip me over, deliver a few whacks and then go about whatever it was he wanted in the first place.

Does anyone realize how horrible it makes me feel when Domly types tell me that three minutes is just too big of an inconvenience for them to be in a relationship with me? Seriously?

Since when did it become the norm for women to not set limits on the kind of sexual behavior they will get up to with\for their man but they are not allowed any primal behavior themselves? i do not put rules around how he has to behave and by the same token i expect him to deal with me at my most primitive and that may mean dealing with some emotional immaturity. He's BIGGER than me! What the fuck are men so fucking afraid of???

This thread is a huge mess, and there is a ton of stuff that needs to be addressed, and I don't know if I have the patience for it. Just, one thing:

I wish we could get past the "bratty little spoiled brat child" definition of the term, because we are talking about ADULTS who obviously (at least its obvious to me) have very, very different motivations, feelings, etc. than a goddamn six year old.

Yes, its easy to go to a dictionary and point to that definition, but we're talking about the BDSM community definition of a "brat" which isn't going to be found anywhere in Merriam Websters. So, lets stop doing that, and try to consider that these "brats" we are discussing might have some more emotional complexity, and intelligence, than a child.

Bolded for emphasis.

 

[DesEsseintes]

This is all getting a little like Sojourner Sub:

"I bin out all day runnin' errands I mos' din't unnerstand for my Master: and ain't I a sub? My ass is red raw from a whuppin', and no, Sir, my man heard no hollerin' out of me from dawn to dusk: and ain't I a sub? Sometimes I speak back, and I get whupped for it, or ignored, or punished any how, and I take it with a smile: and ain't I a sub? Some o' you out there talk 'bout 'true submissives'. Wall, to my way of thinkin' if one thing's true the other's just got to be false, ain't it? So if i ain't like you my kind of sub ain't no good, somehow. But you ax my Master if I'm a sub. He sees me most every hour of every day, and he hears me, and he loves me. He knows me better than my own mother. You ax him if I ain't a sub.

"Ladies and gentle men, I ain't a-proposin' to decide which of you is a sub and which ain't. I'm sure you have your own ideas, and p'raps a simple sub like me ain't fit to follow where your lofty ideas take you, no more than a chicken can follow a swallow. But a chicken's a bird just the same, lays eggs just the same, has wings just the same as any swallow - and men and women have gotten a helluva lot more use outa a humble chicken than any high flyin' swallow. You go your own ways, ladies and gentlemen, and I'll go mine. And now old Sojourner Sub is done speaking', I guess."

 

[StrayKat]

Um, yes, actually, that is what I'd like. It would be pretty neat to be able to talk about myself and my relationship without a bunch of armchair shrinks coming in here to announce that I'm really just manipulative, immature, emotionally stunted, selfish, and rude. Not that they've actually been in a relationship with a self-identified brat, but gosh if that ain't gonna stop them from trying to speculate about it.

God forbid I don't want to have to argue and claw my way around every damn thread around here.

I didnt see anyone saying you are everything you said there. I know I said I dislike brats because I dislike childish. But even if I find you selfish and immature and whatnot, sure you can accept the fact that not everyone likes you? Or whatever it is that you represent here.

You have no idea who has been in what kind of relationship here, until people tell you, so please dont assume it is just ignorance and if you could just "enlighten" them at how awesome you are they would automatically change their views and love you. Some just wont, period. Get over it.

If you have to argue and claw your way around every damn thread around here, maybe you are doing something wrong?

 

[LWulf]

I keyed in to what Homburg said about a brat not being able to ask for an ass whuppin. I've found most of my gf's who, either by design or chance, were brats, found it hard to ask for it outright.

What 00Syd said (bolded) also rings very true to me.

Nice revival. I'll have to read through it later.

It's strange that Kajira Callista sounds so familiar to me...

 

[KoPilot]

I didnt see anyone saying you are everything you said there. I know I said I dislike brats because I dislike childish. But even if I find you selfish and immature and whatnot, sure you can accept the fact that not everyone likes you? Or whatever it is that you represent here.

I'm going to accept and reject whatever the hell I damn well please, thanks. Not sure why you're so bent on getting me to absorb this lesson of yours about not being "sensitive" and just "accepting" things, but I'm not really keen on learning that from people on the internet. Especially from people who aren't part of my generation.

You have no idea who has been in what kind of relationship here, until people tell you, so please dont assume it is just ignorance and if you could just "enlighten" them at how awesome you are they would automatically change their views and love you. Some just wont, period. Get over it.

I pretty much spent more than an hour going through those 65 posts with the word "bratting" in them, and I can sure as hell tell you that in none of the negative posts I saw did anyone make mention of their views being based in personal experience. Except for you, and you've made it pretty clear that your experience with this asshole in question wasn't a mutually-agreed upon dynamic based on trust and respect, and conflating the two is pretty much as useful as comparing BDSM to abuse, so no, your experience still doesn't mean anything to me.

I also find it funny that you lecture me about assuming stuff and then go on to assume that you know what I want out of this discourse. Oh man, who's the brat now

If you have to argue and claw your way around every damn thread around here, maybe you are doing something wrong?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

 

[StrayKat]

Again, you have no clue who deals with who in what dynamics in real life. Not everyone is willing to pour their whole life here for you to pick on and decide who is worth your approval.
I am going like and dislike whatever I damn well please too and no amount of hyperbolas, histrionics and foot stomping will convince me otherwise. So for the sake of your peace of mind I suggest you just put me on ignore and be done with it. Suggest, not teach. You may be brat but you are not my brat and I dont have interest nor patience to even try to give you any lessons.

 

[KoPilot]

Again, you have no clue who deals with who in what dynamics in real life. Not everyone is willing to pour their whole life here for you to pick on and decide who is worth your approval.
I am going like and dislike whatever I damn well please too and no amount of hyperbolas, histrionics and foot stomping will convince me otherwise. So for the sake of your peace of mind I suggest you just put me on ignore and be done with it. Suggest, not teach. You may be brat but you are not my brat and I dont have interest nor patience to even try to give you any lessons.

I just seriously can't get over how hypocritical you are over the course of this entire thing.

You've spent so much time trying to convince me to stop trying to convince people of something.

You're unwilling to accept my unwillingness to accept something.

You're the point you're arguing is that you want me to stop arguing my point.

You done yet? Because this is getting boring. No, I'm not putting you on ignore, but I'm ready to start actually participating in this thread with more interesting personalities whose contributions don't just involve generalizations so sweeping as to be devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

If you really weren't interested in proving anything to me, you wouldn't have followed me here to begin with and would have moved on a while ago.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I keyed in to what Homburg said about a brat not being able to ask for an ass whuppin. I've found most of my gf's who, either by design or chance, were brats, found it hard to ask for it outright.

What 00Syd said (bolded) also rings very true to me.

Nice revival. I'll have to read through it later.

It's strange that Kajira Callista sounds so familiar to me...

yes, because "Believe it or not I have this fantasy about being punished and OMG how much anathema to my ego that is. Guess for me, okay? Here, I'll give you a hint."

 

[MeekMe]

Reviving this.

So out of curiosity, I did a thread search in BDSM Talk for "bratting", and here's what I found out of the first 65 posts (that's all the search function would give me) that aren't from self-identified brats, going all the way back to 2006:

Positive mention: 4 (13%)
Neutral mention: 15 (50%)
Negative mention: 11 (37%)

Seems pretty skewed to me.

-

And to give a summary of myself and my tendency toward bratting-type behavior:

To resist and to push buttons is just part of my personality and that's that. My husband and I are both smarmy fucks, so it's just part of our dynamic anyways. But to break it down even more...

1. I do it because my "neutral position" isn't dominance or submission, it's actually solitude. Hierarchy of any sort, whether I'm nearer to the top or to the bottom, is an opt-in thing for me that sometimes doesn't come very easily. Moreover, my default is awkward, unsexy, oblivious, and quiet-- not very fun to dom for probably most people. I express the difficultly I have reconciling that with my desire for subjugation by "bratting". I use it as a way to remind him and myself that no, I'm really not like most other people, you're going to have to coax the part of me that you want out with precision.

2. I do it because we do pet play. I never quite know what to call us; we're not really a dom/sub pair, not really a sadist/masochist pair, definitely not a master/slave pair, though I'm starting to feel like we're becoming more and more owner/pet. And I ain't no fuckin' dog either; I'm a cat in our relationship. I'm sleepy, playful, and I don't understand how submission works but I sure do want to be petted and cuddled and manhandled and have tape put on my back for kicks even though I may not know how to express "this is fun". How do you get a cat to do something? Make whatever it is that they're doing instead the most uncomfortable thing ever. He loves doing that to me.

3. It's part of our humiliation dynamic. It's that delicious feeling of utter defeat when I say "make me" and he says "nah" and walks away to do something else. It's when I say "I hate you I want a divorce" and he just laughs at me. Or when I say something worse and he KNOWS that I'll immediately double back and apologize profusely. It's hearing him say "that's more like it".

4. It's also me trying to help him come into his own as the d-type in our relationship. He's cultivating his inner 12th grade asshole for this, and goading him into being a bigger, meaner dick than I could ever have the heart to be is part of our goal. Sometimes that comes easier for him when he has something to respond to and build on.

On point number four. Does this work out often? I'm curious because there's been times where I've wanted to say "no" to see what happens. I am worried he will just be flabbergasted. （；￣ェ￣） Which would be no fun.

What would be an example of this working out?

Also, would that be considered bratty behavior if I did it? To tell you the truth, sometimes I'd just like to get him riled up. Seems he never gets very outwardly riled up.

 

[Erochic]

I'm not really sure what is meant by bratty in a BDSM way. I also don't like the word (dealing with too many bratty kids and teenagers),but reading what people have written and thinking about it I get the feeling that in BDSM it may mean something more like "feisty".

I'm a pretty feisty woman, as are you StrayKat. For me my explorations into submission have taken on a different dynamic, which is more me letting go of the feistiness and along with it my need to control - but I could see how maintaining the feistiness and being made to submit could be an incredibly charged erotic high for both parties - like breaking a wild horse that's never completely tamed.

I could just be talking out of my arse here

 

[All_4_Love]

I just seriously can't get over how hypocritical you are over the course of this entire thing.

You've spent so much time trying to convince me to stop trying to convince people of something.

You're unwilling to accept my unwillingness to accept something.

You're the point you're arguing is that you want me to stop arguing my point.

You done yet? Because this is getting boring. No, I'm not putting you on ignore, but I'm ready to start actually participating in this thread with more interesting personalities whose contributions don't just involve generalizations so sweeping as to be devoid of any meaning whatsoever.

If you really weren't interested in proving anything to me, you wouldn't have followed me here to begin with and would have moved on a while ago.

*door opens and shuts loudly*

*the sound of high-heeled leather boots clack across the floor*

"It's the middle of the night. I'm tired. I've just received an urgent call that somebody here needs a spanking"

*squints eyes*

"And I'm not happy!"

Just kidding with you girl. It's not that serious.

 

[All_4_Love]

I'm a pretty feisty woman, as are you StrayKat. For me my explorations into submission have taken on a different dynamic, which is more me letting go of the feistiness and along with it my need to control - but I could see how maintaining the feistiness and being made to submit could be an incredibly charged erotic high for both parties - like breaking a wild horse that's never completely tamed.

I could just be talking out of my arse here

Good analogy. I can see the appeal for some. I can also see how this would apply to switches, as well.

SK was referring to the more outright, disrespectful, childish or challenge your dominance ways in which someone may act. She said it held no appeal for HER personally. This got blown way out of proportion. Gosh, I hope I don't get blasted for commenting.

 

[StrayKat]

You done yet?

Nope.
I will watch you twist your panties and throw temper tantrums some more

I'm not really sure what is meant by bratty in a BDSM way. I also don't like the word (dealing with too many bratty kids and teenagers),but reading what people have written and thinking about it I get the feeling that in BDSM it may mean something more like "feisty".

I'm a pretty feisty woman, as are you StrayKat. For me my explorations into submission have taken on a different dynamic, which is more me letting go of the feistiness and along with it my need to control - but I could see how maintaining the feistiness and being made to submit could be an incredibly charged erotic high for both parties - like breaking a wild horse that's never completely tamed.

I could just be talking out of my arse here

What you say there is something I believe I might like. I havent seen even a hint of what I would call bratty about you, but I see clearly "the feisty" and I honestly like that. Too bad male subs dont seem to come in that flavor often.
Is that the same as brat? I dont think so tbh.

SK was referring to the more outright, disrespectful, childish or challenge your dominance ways in which someone may act. She said it held no appeal for HER personally. This got blown way out of proportion. Gosh, I hope I don't get blasted for commenting.

I was actually, thank you for noticing. But people seem to take it as a personal attack if you say you dont like something they think is awesome I guess.

 

[KoPilot]

yes, because "Believe it or not I have this fantasy about being punished and OMG how much anathema to my ego that is. Guess for me, okay? Here, I'll give you a hint."

I used to think this was it? But for me personally, it's actually something else entirely. I wrote about it at length on my blog in a post where I was figuring out why I always felt so drawn to dub-con: http://fistfelt.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/cockvore-and-dub-con/

It's basically that I don't actually "want" anything in particular, but am freakishly receptive to the point of being easy prey to a lot of manipulative types. Like I said, my default is solitude-- I don't know how to clearly communicate "I want company" in an intimate way, let alone "I want spanks" without it being really awkward and stilted, albeit honest.

On point number four. Does this work out often? I'm curious because there's been times where I've wanted to say "no" to see what happens. I am worried he will just be flabbergasted. （；￣ェ￣） Which would be no fun.

What would be an example of this working out?

Also, would that be considered bratty behavior if I did it? To tell you the truth, sometimes I'd just like to get him riled up. Seems he never gets very outwardly riled up.

I'm getting the feeling that it's definitely not for everybody, and getting him to "out-brat" me seems really strange when I stop and take a look at what most other D/s-y dynamics look like. But it works for us... sometimes too well. He hung up on me once during a goodnight call (these are a cornerstone of our relationship) as calculated sadistic move of the emotional variety, and I was so caught off-guard and hurt that I almost went to bed angry. But once I checked my initial knee-jerk, I realized that yes! that's exactly the kind of shit that I want from him! hurrrrgh! And we talked about it afterward. He was really sorry that I took it the wrong way, but I just need to get over the fact that he doesn't want to be an ass in ways that will legit hurt me, and if he does do stuff that looks like that, then I can safely assume that's him domming.

I'm not really sure what is meant by bratty in a BDSM way. I also don't like the word (dealing with too many bratty kids and teenagers),but reading what people have written and thinking about it I get the feeling that in BDSM it may mean something more like "feisty".

I'm a pretty feisty woman, as are you StrayKat. For me my explorations into submission have taken on a different dynamic, which is more me letting go of the feistiness and along with it my need to control - but I could see how maintaining the feistiness and being made to submit could be an incredibly charged erotic high for both parties - like breaking a wild horse that's never completely tamed.

I could just be talking out of my arse here

I hate the word too, tbh, but it's part of the BDSM lexicon whether I like it or not, and if I want to talk about this stuff using a common vocabulary, this is it.

For me it has a lot to do with how tone-deaf I am when it comes to erotic cues and things because I'm asexual and have no libido anymore. It also has a lot to do with being able to free up a part of myself that was locked away pretty deeply from a very early age. I remember going up to my mother when I was 5 to ask her a benign question while she was in the middle of divorcing my father, and I will never forget her reaction: "If you don't leave me alone right now, I'm going to scream." And pretty much ever since then I've been hyper-aware of everything I say and do around people, and it doesn't feel good. I want to be able to freely express myself, my trepidation, my lack of boundaries, my lack of sexiness, and "bratting" is a way that I've been able to do that. And that goes hand in hand with the pet play thing. Bratting is also a way that I can feel OK with fucking up, which is something else that I grew up fearing to no end. I can say, and do, and if I'm in the wrong, he'll let me know. And it'll be OK because it's a completely safe and isolated environment.

I don't think of myself as feisty, really. Lazy, actually. Restless, and uninhibited. While some people seek out BDSM so they can have all kinds of kinky sex with wild abandon, I want to move and speak and whine and pout and fart with wild abandon. That's what it is to me.

*door opens and shuts loudly*

*the sound of high-heeled leather boots clack across the floor*

"It's the middle of the night. I'm tired. I've just received an urgent call that somebody here needs a spanking"

*squints eyes*

"And I'm not happy!"

Just kidding with you girl. It's not that serious.

-rolls around on the floor groaning-

Fuuuuuuuu

Good analogy. I can see the appeal for some. I can also see how this would apply to switches, as well.

SK was referring to the more outright, disrespectful, childish or challenge your dominance ways in which someone may act. She said it held no appeal for HER personally. This got blown way out of proportion. Gosh, I hope I don't get blasted for commenting.

No, it really did, and it was so stupid. For some reason SK couldn't grasp that I didn't actually care what her personal, individual opinion was. It was the general consensus that I gave a shit about.

 

[All_4_Love]

Um, yes, actually, that is what I'd like. It would be pretty neat to be able to talk about myself and my relationship without a bunch of armchair shrinks coming in here to announce that I'm really just manipulative, immature, emotionally stunted, selfish, and rude. Not that they've actually been in a relationship with a self-identified brat, but gosh if that ain't gonna stop them from trying to speculate about it.

God forbid I don't want to have to argue and claw my way around every damn thread around here.

I can agree with your feelings. These are treacherous waters to navigate. From what you have described, your husband likes you the way you are. That is truly all that matters at the end of the day. There is always going to be a plethora of opinions thrown around here. You just have to go with the flow.

 

[All_4_Love]

Nope.
I will watch you twist your panties and throw temper tantrums some more

My gosh, you are sadistic.

What does a girl have to do to get a spanking around here? For goodness' sake!

 

[CapnCuddly]

My gosh, you are sadistic.

What does a girl have to do to get a spanking around here? For goodness' sake!

Be careful what you wish for. You may get way more than you can handle.

 

[All_4_Love]

Be careful what you wish for. You may get way more than you can handle.

Uh-oh...

 

[LWulf]

...It's strange that Kajira Callista sounds so familiar to me...

Doyyyy! That's the moderator of the threads here! XD

 

[Netzach]

Reviving this.

So out of curiosity, I did a thread search in BDSM Talk for "bratting", and here's what I found out of the first 65 posts (that's all the search function would give me) that aren't from self-identified brats, going all the way back to 2006:

Positive mention: 4 (13%)
Neutral mention: 15 (50%)
Negative mention: 11 (37%)

Seems pretty skewed to me.

-

And to give a summary of myself and my tendency toward bratting-type behavior:

To resist and to push buttons is just part of my personality and that's that. My husband and I are both smarmy fucks, so it's just part of our dynamic anyways. But to break it down even more...

1. I do it because my "neutral position" isn't dominance or submission, it's actually solitude. Hierarchy of any sort, whether I'm nearer to the top or to the bottom, is an opt-in thing for me that sometimes doesn't come very easily. Moreover, my default is awkward, unsexy, oblivious, and quiet-- not very fun to dom for probably most people. I express the difficultly I have reconciling that with my desire for subjugation by "bratting". I use it as a way to remind him and myself that no, I'm really not like most other people, you're going to have to coax the part of me that you want out with precision.

2. I do it because we do pet play. I never quite know what to call us; we're not really a dom/sub pair, not really a sadist/masochist pair, definitely not a master/slave pair, though I'm starting to feel like we're becoming more and more owner/pet. And I ain't no fuckin' dog either; I'm a cat in our relationship. I'm sleepy, playful, and I don't understand how submission works but I sure do want to be petted and cuddled and manhandled and have tape put on my back for kicks even though I may not know how to express "this is fun". How do you get a cat to do something? Make whatever it is that they're doing instead the most uncomfortable thing ever. He loves doing that to me.

3. It's part of our humiliation dynamic. It's that delicious feeling of utter defeat when I say "make me" and he says "nah" and walks away to do something else. It's when I say "I hate you I want a divorce" and he just laughs at me. Or when I say something worse and he KNOWS that I'll immediately double back and apologize profusely. It's hearing him say "that's more like it".

4. It's also me trying to help him come into his own as the d-type in our relationship. He's cultivating his inner 12th grade asshole for this, and goading him into being a bigger, meaner dick than I could ever have the heart to be is part of our goal. Sometimes that comes easier for him when he has something to respond to and build on.

When I do petplay or ageplay, they are scenes I take very very literally. (hence I get to do them rarely, only with people who are about the psychodrama and not about the sex because I can't do the horse/cat/dog/baby fucking even for make believe) If you are going to flag "horsey" I am going to accept that the bottom will do what I make it do - and given no clear direction it will roll on the ground and eat anything left lying around and shit on the floor.

It's a complete and total zone of control and also engagement. The bottom cedes all control and all responsibility.

If I'm not getting what I want - it's my failure to frame, my failure to enforce, my failure to condition.

I don't really see this as "brat" but I do see a negative response to scenes of anything less than complete obedience. I like those, but I really do like variety more. Could I live in that zone, fuck no. A dirty weekend? Sublime.

My wife criticized my shitty bondage early in the rel. (I learned non-shitty bondage since then.) It's completely valid in my experience for someone to want to be able to have the experience of struggle in earnest and to know they're going to lose.

The "everything that's not easy for me is bratting" stance is very lazy to me.

There are certain foundational levels where resistance is not a game I engage in, because it's not productive for me, but it's certainly not a case of "how can anyone LIKE that?"

 

[DesEsseintes]

I can't stand tomatoes. Never have, even as a baby who was a far from fussy eater. I love their smell, the look of them drizzled with basil, olive oil and black pepper. I even like them cooked, with peppers, onions, etc. But the raw tomato just doesn't do anything for me.

Those people who like tomatoes - what is it about them you like? Is it the texture? The flavour? I'm really curious to know, because I've tried and tried, and they just aren't for me.

An analogy, for what it's worth. Would that make anyone angry? Because it's, more or less, the direct equivalent.

 

[Erochic]

I even like them cooked, with peppers, onions, etc. .

Yuck.... Why would you add those yucky peppers to yummy tomatoes?
I don't know why people feel the need to add peppers to pizzas or pasta - surely it would taste better without them?

 

[DesEsseintes]

Yuck.... Why would you add those yucky peppers to yummy tomatoes?
I don't know why people feel the need to add peppers to pizzas or pasta - surely it would taste better without them?

How dare you! You've just never had REAL peppers! I LOVE peppers, and I'm fed up with people coming on here and denigrating my favourite vegetable/fruit/whatever. Your simple question threatens my very shaky sense of self, which is wholly bound up with the universal appreciation of capsicum in all their multi-hued glory.

Etc, etc, etc. Reductio ad absurdam can be illuminating sometimes.