The AI & Data Center Thread

[BabyBoomer50s]

Data centers are quickly becoming a political hot potato nationwide. It wasn’t that long ago that states and municipalities were welcoming them. Now there’s a growing backlash, even in Democratic strongholds like Silicon Valley and Republican strongholds like Texas.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Politicians are lying to the people by telling them about all of the jobs it will create.

The construction is crappy tilt up buildings that take weeks, not months to build, and the centers themselves will put people out of jobs.

Any politician that touts them is suspect.

 

[ll74]

My position is that we're paying for it and we should be pushing this cost to the tech companies. (Money, resources...etc) For example, my electricity bill has doubled this year even though I've used less electricity.

That's the idea I mentioned that Vivek discusses - people near data centers getting free electricity via legislation. I'm intrigued by that idea...not sure how practical t might be with our state legislature.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

I’ve been following public reaction and talking to friends and former neighbors in Silicon Valley over the past year.

In recent years, Mayors and city councils have quietly courted them because they bring in significant revenue from property taxes, business taxes and utility taxes. Now they’re backpedaling.

Constituents are voicing concerns about water consumption, electricity rates, generator noise, and placement of centers near residential neighborhoods. Those concerns are layered on top of a general fear of AI, tech sector layoffs, and resentment of high paid tech workers that drive up housing prices.

Since moving across country to a semi rural area, I’m seeing a lot of resistance coming from people who hate seeing farmland being sold off to data center developers, and the high voltage utility lines crossing over or near their property.

I see AI as inevitable and am not worried about job displacements. Productivity gains and economic growth are likely to outweigh the disruption over the long term.

As far as data centers go, there are legitimate reasons for states and municipalities to heed resident’s concerns and develop data center approval standards that enable development with minimal adverse impact.

I suspect the capital expenditures by big tech companies is excessive and could bite them hard on the balance sheet in the not too distant future. Also skeptical of the venture capital being poured into the sector.

 

[ll74]

I’ve been following public reaction and talking to friends and former neighbors in Silicon Valley over the past year.

In recent years, Mayors and city councils have quietly courted them because they bring in significant revenue from property taxes, business taxes and utility taxes. Now they’re backpedaling.

Constituents are voicing concerns about water consumption, electricity rates, generator noise, and placement of centers near residential neighborhoods. Those concerns are layered on top of a general fear of AI, tech sector layoffs, and resentment of high paid tech workers that drive up housing prices.

Since moving across country to a semi rural area, I’m seeing a lot of resistance coming from people who hate seeing farmland being sold off to data center developers, and the high voltage utility lines crossing over or near their property.

I see AI as inevitable and am not worried about job displacements. Productivity gains and economic growth are likely to outweigh the disruption over the long term.

As far as data centers go, there are legitimate reasons for states and municipalities to heed resident’s concerns and develop data center approval standards that enable development with minimal adverse impact.

I suspect the capital expenditures by big tech companies is excessive and could bite them hard on the balance sheet in the not too distant future. Also skeptical of the venture capital being poured into the sector.

These data centers are going to happen somewhere regardless. Tech companies need to respond to concerns of people. But nimbies need to get over it.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

These data centers are going to happen somewhere regardless. Tech companies need to respond to concerns of people. But nimbies need to get over it.

I agree, but land use planners need be smart about it. And the question of who pays the electricity rates need to be answered in a satisfactory manner. Residential power bills in the Bay Area are astronomical, and PG&E has a notoriously bad history. The data center developers need to foot the bill for infrastructure development and the added load.

 

[coati]

This isn't just about electrity rates. Nobody has mentioned water, enormous direct and embedded greenhouse gas emissions, the destruction of habitat for mining and energy transfer, and the fact that up to 80% of actual AI applications are designed for corporate profit and consumer manipulation, not for long term societal benefit.

The citizens need to weigh in on this wasteful gluttony of natural resources. AI should be applied to scientific advances, not to corporate control of society.

 

[DeluxAuto]

As an aside, Meta just had to pay $17 billion for poisoning children.

 

[ll74]

I agree, but land use planners need be smart about it. And the question of who pays the electricity rates need to be answered in a satisfactory manner. Residential power bills in the Bay Area are astronomical, and PG&E has a notoriously bad history. The data center developers need to foot the bill for infrastructure development and the added load.

If I, as a personal residential home owner , use twice as much electricity, I pay twice the price for that use. Data centers are getting tax breaks when they aren't truly bringing any economical benefit, at least locally or regionally. That's my issue with them.

At least distribution centers bring jobs with them.

 

[icanhelp1]

Data centers are quickly becoming a political hot potato nationwide. It wasn’t that long ago that states and municipalities were welcoming them. Now there’s a growing backlash, even in Democratic strongholds like Silicon Valley and Republican strongholds like Texas.

China influence. If media doesn't come clean and start reporting on Chinese negative influence behind the scenes it could have a devastating effect on AI. Cities and states could make a killing on these DATA centers. There's lots of misinformation out there thanks to Chinese propaganda. There are some legitimate concerns but the outright lies are promoted in such a way that they're very convincing. Water cooling, electric energy consumption and a whole host of other lies. IMHO.

 

[ll74]

One idea I had the other day is that companies should be required to put in nuclear reactors for their data centers. No coal or oil. I think that would answer the power issue and a lot of the emission issues.

And they should dedicate 10% of their computer power to address the other issues.. Eventually, new ways of cooling and powering and even noise.pollution can actually be solved using the.centers themselves

 

[ll74]

China influence. If media doesn't come clean and start reporting on Chinese negative influence behind the scenes it could have a devastating effect on AI. Cities and states could make a killing on these DATA centers. There's lots of misinformation out there thanks to Chinese propaganda. There are some legitimate concerns but the outright lies are promoted in such a way that they're very convincing. Water cooling, electric energy consumption and a whole host of other lies. IMHO.

Not lies - definitely exaggerations and misinformation.

 

[icanhelp1]

This isn't just about electrity rates. Nobody has mentioned water, enormous direct and embedded greenhouse gas emissions, the destruction of habitat for mining and energy transfer, and the fact that up to 80% of actual AI applications are designed for corporate profit and consumer manipulation, not for long term societal benefit.

The citizens need to weigh in on this wasteful gluttony of natural resources. AI should be applied to scientific advances, not to corporate control of society.

There are plenty of work arounds.

Not lies - definitely exaggerations and misinformation.

Water and energy usage. Closed loop cooling systems that recycle water and would not drain water resources. Energy producing modular nuclear power plants adding to the power grid actually enhancing the power grid and lowering cost. Cities and states could get all kinds of perks from these large data centers. Revitalization of old mills, solar farms going out of favor and all kinds of other land assets resources.

 

[ll74]

There are plenty of work arounds.

Water and energy usage. Closed loop cooling systems that recycle water and would not drain water resources. Energy producing modular nuclear power plants adding to the power grid actually enhancing the power grid and lowering cost. Cities and states could get all kinds of perks from these large data centers. Revitalization of old mills, solar farms going out of favor and all kinds of other land assets resources.

It's not exactly that straight forward. You will always lose water in some capacity. But it definitely is not as dire as some environmentalists suggest.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

There is no demand for AI. It’s a bubble inflated by venture capital chasing the next big thing.

It will eventually pop like all speculative bubbles, but in the meantime investors are pushing up electricity rates and cluttering rural areas with unnecessary data centers.

 

[MajorRewrite]

Supporting data center development is a great way to lose a midterm election.

75% of Americans Now Oppose Local Data Center Development

Texas poll shows solid bipartisan opposition to data centers

Many Americans think data centers are bad for the U.S.; more oppose them locally

Only 24% of Americans say the construction of new data centers is very or somewhat good for the country

 

[ll74]

There is no demand for AI.

This is an ignorant statement.

It’s a bubble inflated by venture capital chasing the next big thing.

Nope. This is a demand based on the possibilities that AI provides

It will eventually pop like all speculative bubbles, but in the meantime investors are pushing up electricity rates and cluttering rural areas with unnecessary data centers.

The economic benefit is definitely inflated. But the use of AI is continually expansive.

 

[ll74]

Supporting data center development is a great way to lose a midterm election.

75% of Americans Now Oppose Local Data Center Development

Texas poll shows solid bipartisan opposition to data centers

Many Americans think data centers are bad for the U.S.; more oppose them locally

People don't understand AI and that continues to be a political benefit to some

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

This is an ignorant statement.


Nope. This is a demand based on the possibilities that AI provides


The economic benefit is definitely inflated. But the use of AI is continually expansive.

We’ll see how much demand remains when people actually have to pay for it. It’s easy to get people to consume something if you give it away for free.

 

[ll74]

We’ll see how much demand remains when people actually have to pay for it. It’s easy to get people to consume something if you give it away for free.

People are buying it. An example - currently you have someone experienced at looking at MRis for cancer. AI can identify patterns in MRIs across multiple scans using less work and time.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

People are buying it. An example - currently you have someone experienced at looking at MRis for cancer. AI can identify patterns in MRIs across multiple scans using less work and time.

How many data centers are needed to analyze MRI data? Sure one should be sufficient to handle all the MRI scans in the United States.

 

[ll74]

How many data centers are needed to analyze MRI data?

Depends on the data.

Sure one would be sufficient to handle all the MRI scans in the United States.

Lol...nope.

How many MRI analysts do you think are employed?

 

[coati]

And won't it be wonderful when oligarchs can use their personal data centers to track every consumer on Earth, train them to be dependent on proprietary AI as a substitute for thinking and social interaction, contract out surveillance and "enforcement" services to deal with trouble makers, pacify the masses and reap new profits with flashy games and entertainment, disseminate propaganda in the most intrusive ways possible, increase corporate productivity and profits by reducing the workforce, and know precisely how much money and labor they can extract from each individual consumer?

Sounds like a very efficient form of slavery to me! Embrace high tech oligarchy! We have no evidence that anything can go wrong with that. It's inevitable that we must give up our autonomy and our connections to nature and each other for the good of the corporate state.

And new AI-developed drugs can make us "happy" as slaves.

 

[MajorRewrite]

People don't understand AI and that continues to be a political benefit to some

The polls show that people don’t want data centers near them, and don’t think they’re good for the nation. Understanding AI is not the issue.

 

[ll74]

The polls show that people don’t want data centers near them, and don’t think they’re good for the nation. Understanding AI is not the issue.

Nimbies exist.
Understanding AI and data centers continues to be an issue for many.