The 3rd in a humiliation activity

[ecstaticsub]

Let's just say this is a hypothetical situation...

Say if a committed couple in a solid D/s relationship decides to include a 3rd in their play activities. ( I don't like to use the word scene because it is not a stand alone activity. )

The 3rd is fully aware of the couple's depth of relationship, everyone is very open and honest about relationship dynamics.

If the couple wants to explore humiliation submission (with the female member of the couple being the one humiliated not the 3rd) if you were the 3rd would this be something that would make you feel very uncomfortable, would you be into it?

I know the answer to this is to ask the 3rd. Obviously, right?

But not so simple since anything of this type that has been done before has been just between the couple. If the submissive has no idea of what her real reaction will be to the interaction how can they prepare the 3rd? Assuming the 3rd is submissive also and has not listed "humiliation of others" as a hard limit does this mean it is a go?

Obviously in this hypothetical case everything is still in it's early stages. But I wanted to see if anyone has had experience as the 3rd in this case or any words of wisdom.

Thank you in advance.

 

[subish2009]

Let's just say this is a hypothetical situation...

Say if a committed couple in a solid D/s relationship decides to include a 3rd in their play activities. ( I don't like to use the word scene because it is not a stand alone activity. )

The 3rd is fully aware of the couple's depth of relationship, everyone is very open and honest about relationship dynamics.

If the couple wants to explore humiliation submission (with the female member of the couple being the one humiliated not the 3rd) if you were the 3rd would this be something that would make you feel very uncomfortable, would you be into it?

I know the answer to this is to ask the 3rd. Obviously, right?

But not so simple since anything of this type that has been done before has been just between the couple. If the submissive has no idea of what her real reaction will be to the interaction how can they prepare the 3rd? Assuming the 3rd is submissive also and has not listed "humiliation of others" as a hard limit does this mean it is a go?

Obviously in this hypothetical case everything is still in it's early stages. But I wanted to see if anyone has had experience as the 3rd in this case or any words of wisdom.

Thank you in advance.

So, your 3rd would be in a D role? I assume your PYL would be running the show, but this 3rd is not acting as another pyl? More of a Beta role, yes? I would think, actually, that either way it would be up to your PYL to discuss his expectations for the play with the 3rd and make sure he/she is all in. But that seems obvious. So I suspect I've missed something here.

Is the 3rd a pyl to your PYL or just truly an independent 3rd party? My husband/D and I used to have a friend who we engaged in play of this type a bit. Mostly he played a voyeur role while my husband and I played. Occasionally, he was invited to have some physical contact with me, but really it was mostly a humiliation (of me)/exhibitionism/voyeur thing. Is that what you have in mind?

Sorry I'm no help! Need more detail, I guess.

 

[ecstaticsub]

So, your 3rd would be in a D role? I assume your PYL would be running the show, but this 3rd is not acting as another pyl? More of a Beta role, yes? I would think, actually, that either way it would be up to your PYL to discuss his expectations for the play with the 3rd and make sure he/she is all in. But that seems obvious. So I suspect I've missed something here.

Is the 3rd a pyl to your PYL or just truly an independent 3rd party? My husband/D and I used to have a friend who we engaged in play of this type a bit. Mostly he played a voyeur role while my husband and I played. Occasionally, he was invited to have some physical contact with me, but really it was mostly a humiliation (of me)/exhibitionism/voyeur thing. Is that what you have in mind?

Sorry I'm no help! Need more detail, I guess.

I'm sorry. I am trying to get answers without giving too many details.

The 3rd would be a female who is submissive but not a submissive to my PYL. Meaning she would be submissive by nature but has no commitment of submission to him. They may or may not have a ongoing relationship of their own separate from myself.

Yeah, I know he would be in charge of the whole show and he would be the one to discuss the expectations with her. But from my point of view I want to know how a third would feel in this situation. We tried something similar before and though it was awesome in it's own way it didn't turn out the way I had expected on an emotional level.

Humiliation can be really tricky. A big part of how I react is knowing how the other parties are viewing myself and the situation. I am really trying to not over think it all and just let it happen. But I am afraid of hurting someone else or myself falling apart.

Most of all, to be honest, I am afraid that my apprehension may cause my PYL to be more cautious then I would really want. That it is really that I need to be more humiliated to be more comfortable then less humiliated. But I am not sure how this would make her feel.

Just to be clear we are talking about humiliation, NOT degradation.

Thanks

 

[subish2009]

I'm sorry. I am trying to get answers without giving too many details.

The 3rd would be a female who is submissive but not a submissive to my PYL. Meaning she would be submissive by nature but has no commitment of submission to him. They may or may not have a ongoing relationship of their own separate from myself.

Yeah, I know he would be in charge of the whole show and he would be the one to discuss the expectations with her. But from my point of view I want to know how a third would feel in this situation. We tried something similar before and though it was awesome in it's own way it didn't turn out the way I had expected on an emotional level.

Humiliation can be really tricky. A big part of how I react is knowing how the other parties are viewing myself and the situation. I am really trying to not over think it all and just let it happen. But I am afraid of hurting someone else or myself falling apart.

Most of all, to be honest, I am afraid that my apprehension may cause my PYL to be more cautious then I would really want. That it is really that I need to be more humiliated to be more comfortable then less humiliated. But I am not sure how this would make her feel.

Just to be clear we are talking about humiliation, NOT degradation.

Thanks

Okay. Gosh. Well, I think I'd wait until he talks to her, then I'd have my own conversation with her. Maybe with a drink or two, if you do that, to make it easier. And I'd just try to say what you've said here, "Listen, I just want to make sure you're cool with this. That you understand this is something that I WANT...like, a LOT. So, if somehow it gets too kinky for you or something and you feel uncomfortable, just [insert safeword, or freedom to excuse herself, or whatever you think is appropriate here], but know that I'm happy, and if I'm not, I'll speak up. Okay?" Obviously, in your own words. But that's how I'd say it.

And tell your PYL, "This is scaring me to death, but I REALLY want it!" Or whatever.

I'm assuming your concern is that you need to make sure that she's having a good time? That she's turned on, too? That's always my concern when involving others. I need to feel like everyone in the room is having a REALLY good time or else I withdraw into a ball of anxiety. Is that something close to what you're worried about?

Sorry, not trying to drag more detail out of you than you're comfortable sharing, but you know how this goes: it's tough to know if you're on the right advice track when it's not a face-to-face conversation.

 

[audiodiva]

Okay. Gosh. Well, I think I'd wait until he talks to her, then I'd have my own conversation with her. Maybe with a drink or two, if you do that, to make it easier. And I'd just try to say what you've said here, "Listen, I just want to make sure you're cool with this. That you understand this is something that I WANT...like, a LOT. So, if somehow it gets too kinky for you or something and you feel uncomfortable, just [insert safeword, or freedom to excuse herself, or whatever you think is appropriate here], but know that I'm happy, and if I'm not, I'll speak up. Okay?" Obviously, in your own words. But that's how I'd say it.

This was exactly what I was thinking. I have been a third in a DS relationship, although not in this scenario, and it would have helped a lot to have the pyl's perspective on this prior to playing. You never can tell until you are in a scene how it will play out or how you will feel afterwards. Making sure the 3rd knows that you, the pyl, have done this before and love it would help him or her prepare if it isn't something they are familiar with.

 

[ecstaticsub]

Okay. Gosh. Well, I think I'd wait until he talks to her, then I'd have my own conversation with her. Maybe with a drink or two, if you do that, to make it easier. And I'd just try to say what you've said here, "Listen, I just want to make sure you're cool with this. That you understand this is something that I WANT...like, a LOT. So, if somehow it gets too kinky for you or something and you feel uncomfortable, just [insert safeword, or freedom to excuse herself, or whatever you think is appropriate here], but know that I'm happy, and if I'm not, I'll speak up. Okay?" Obviously, in your own words. But that's how I'd say it.

And tell your PYL, "This is scaring me to death, but I REALLY want it!" Or whatever.

I'm assuming your concern is that you need to make sure that she's having a good time? That she's turned on, too? That's always my concern when involving others. I need to feel like everyone in the room is having a REALLY good time or else I withdraw into a ball of anxiety. Is that something close to what you're worried about?

Sorry, not trying to drag more detail out of you than you're comfortable sharing, but you know how this goes: it's tough to know if you're on the right advice track when it's not a face-to-face conversation.

I appreciate you taking the time to help me think this through. I don't think I will get a conversation with her other then yes, i am ok with sharing him time of affirmation. And I'll be honest, I don't really care if she is having a good time or not. Not in this case. I've made that mistake before. I need to be more focused on what he wants as opposed to anything else. But I don't want to hurt her or freak her out or make her think she is evil for participating even if I am a hysterical crying mess on the floor. Plus I am sure my PYL will take care of her even if it means just locking me in acloset for a while. (which would be hot for me, too...I think)

This was exactly what I was thinking. I have been a third in a DS relationship, although not in this scenario, and it would have helped a lot to have the pyl's perspective on this prior to playing. You never can tell until you are in a scene how it will play out or how you will feel afterwards. Making sure the 3rd knows that you, the pyl, have done this before and love it would help him or her prepare if it isn't something they are familiar with.

We've done 3somes, moresomes, D/s activity with a third but not humiliation in front/with of a 3rd and that is much more tricky. I can't tell her I know I will love it if I don't know.

But I do know I won't be permanently damaged. I know for sure that no matter what my own relationship will be ok.

Other then that I don't know anything.

Usually as things go within my relationship I am not told much before something actually happens. I really prefer it that way because I tend to over think. As in this case. It is not even close to happening yet..(Or is it?)

I just wanted to see if anyone had experience being a 3rd in this type of situation.

Thanks

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think your PYL had better make sure that this third person can handle the scene.

I wouldn't worry so much about having a good time during the scene, as dealing with the emotional fallout afterwards... like three days afterwards.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I think your PYL had better make sure that this third person can handle the scene.

I wouldn't worry so much about having a good time during the scene, as dealing with the emotional fallout afterwards... like three days afterwards.

This is exactly why I am asking. What kind of emotional fall out exactly? I am trying to figure out what emotions exactly she may feel during something like this. Like I said there will be no degradation, I won't be eating shit or having sex with animals or anything close to that.

Are you more concerned about emotional fallout on her behalf or mine? Or even his?

 

[Stella_Omega]

If I were the third, I would worry about my own emotional fallout.

As you said;

But I don't want to hurt her or freak her out or make her think she is evil for participating even if I am a hysterical crying mess on the floor.

I don't want to be hurt or freaked or feel like I am evil for participating in turning you into a mess.

In fact, (and i don't know what exactly would bring you to that point of course) I don't see much difference between that kind of humiliation and eating shit or doing dogs...

Now, that's just me, nothing to do with you. I have pretty low limits for emotional stuff. But it's something your PYL needs to know about this third person. Because I really worry that I would end up judging you and your PYL later, and wouldn't feel comfortable around you for a while.

He better make sure she knows her own limits is what I'm saying...

 

[ecstaticsub]

If I were the third, I would worry about my own emotional fallout.

As you said;


I don't want to be hurt or freaked or feel like I am evil for participating in turning you into a mess.

In fact, (and i don't know what exactly would bring you to that point of course) I don't see much difference between that kind of humiliation and eating shit or doing dogs...

Now, that's just me, nothing to do with you. I have pretty low limits for emotional stuff. But it's something your PYL needs to know about this third person. Because I really worry that I would end up judging you and your PYL later, and wouldn't feel comfortable around you for a while.

He better make sure she knows her own limits is what I'm saying...

Thank you, I really appreciate your answer. If it gets to that point I will make sure I wait until he and I are alone before I break down. He can handle me when I am a mess just fine.


I also know from experience that he needs to err on the side of overly cautious when it comes to anything edgy--physical or emotional--especially with someone he doesn't know as well as he knows me.

Thanks again

 

[rida]

It is a hot scenario that could work out incredibly well or end in a horrible disaster, and I think it is very considerate of you to worry about the feelings of the 3rd.

In a general sense, I believe it is the responsibility of the one that is inviting the 3rd, to make sure she/he knows what they are going to get into and make sure they will be able to handle the situation.

However during the events, as you are the pyl on the receiving end, you will be the one with the least control on the situation. It would be kind of counterintuitive to have you worry about how the 3rd is going to react/feel while you are put through the humiliation ... although I confess that, in my convoluted mind, it would be exactly what would happen if I was in that position

Another thought is that, whether the 3rd is a one shot deal or has a separate relationship with the PYL is going to make a huge difference, in terms of responsibilities toward the 3rd. What I mean is that if the 3rd is "an independent contractor", after being told the scenario and the possible outcomes, she/he should take responsibility for her/his own participation as the PYL will be busy making sure that the humiliated pyl is doing OK. But if she/he is also submissive to the PYL in question, than he has both the responsibility to make sure the humiliated pyl is ok and that the 3rd is ok.

Good luck!

 

[BiBunny]

I don't think I'd be scarred for life or anything if I were in this situation, but I wouldn't be surprised if I were a little...embarrassed. Not in the "humiliated" sense, but in the "Why am I watching something that seems like an intimate thing between two people?" type of way. Even if I knew what was coming beforehand, I'd probably still have residual feelings of that sort.

Just an alternative perspective.

 

[ecstaticsub]

It is a hot scenario that could work out incredibly well or end in a horrible disaster, and I think it is very considerate of you to worry about the feelings of the 3rd.

In a general sense, I believe it is the responsibility of the one that is inviting the 3rd, to make sure she/he knows what they are going to get into and make sure they will be able to handle the situation.

However during the events, as you are the pyl on the receiving end, you will be the one with the least control on the situation. It would be kind of counterintuitive to have you worry about how the 3rd is going to react/feel while you are put through the humiliation ... although I confess that, in my convoluted mind, it would be exactly what would happen if I was in that position

Another thought is that, whether the 3rd is a one shot deal or has a separate relationship with the PYL is going to make a huge difference, in terms of responsibilities toward the 3rd. What I mean is that if the 3rd is "an independent contractor", after being told the scenario and the possible outcomes, she/he should take responsibility for her/his own participation as the PYL will be busy making sure that the humiliated pyl is doing OK. But if she/he is also submissive to the PYL in question, than he has both the responsibility to make sure the humiliated pyl is ok and that the 3rd is ok.

Good luck!

I think either way he will feel responsible for the 3rd. Probably more so then for me. Which in my twisted mind I prefer. He will have plenty of time afterwards to deal with me. But absolutely their relationship will have a huge impact on my overall mindset and of course her mindset afterwards.

I don't think I'd be scarred for life or anything if I were in this situation, but I wouldn't be surprised if I were a little...embarrassed. Not in the "humiliated" sense, but in the "Why am I watching something that seems like an intimate thing between two people?" type of way. Even if I knew what was coming beforehand, I'd probably still have residual feelings of that sort.

Just an alternative perspective.

Thank you. I would hope that she wouldn't be embarrassed. I am thinking that if we could find someone who was submissive to him but rather sadistic to me. Or even if she didn't like me at all. That might actually be better.


The more I think of this the more I think it will never happen. Too much threat of drama. I don't like drama in my relationships or life in general and he absolutely does not. But, damn...I think if done right and with all having a 'what happens in scene stays in scene" mindset this could be amazing.

Oh well, too bad I'm not the one in control

 

[unknooown]

I'm in a relationship very similar to this. I have a very close friend that happens to live with me while he figures things out with his parents (it's been over a year but what can I say; he's a good friend). Someone above said beta and that's pretty accurate. I also have my wife, who became friends with him while she and I were dating.

He knows about my wife and I being into BDSM -- in fact, he was the one that educated me about it. A little over a year ago he and I got to talking, and I'm not even sure how it came up, but we decided that I no longer had to confine my relationship with my then fiance to the bedroom. I've fucked her in front of him, spanked her in front of him, had him spank her both in front of me and in private, forced her to orgasm in front of him, made her get on her knees and recite things in front him, etc. Most of the time I didn't give him a heads up, but whatever happened happened. There was a kind of consensual blanket over the whole thing that was initiated over that first conversation.

Sometimes he was uncomfortable but that was the part he was playing. I don't do it for him, or for her, I do it for me. His discomfort has no impact on me. I don't know how it is in your situation, but the way I'm imagining it, you're there to increase the humiliation in the other sub. My wife is especially mortified if my friend is visibly uncomfortable. All the more reason for me to have him there, frankly.

 

[ecstaticsub]

unknooown -- Thanks for your reply. That is a very interesting set up. I was originally thinking that in my case she would be thee to humiliate me, I wasn't thinking of her being humiliated but maybe it would end up happening that way.

I have a feeling now this whole situation may never play out as I have imagined. Too bad i can't top from the bottom.

 

[Netzach]

Simple solution - don't go doing scenes like this unless you can find a "third" who is absolutely callous to or aroused by the potential for "a crying mess on the floor." MY reaction is, if I'm getting my rocks off and I don't know you that well, your emotional fallout is your problem. This may make me less considerate than a lot of people, but I think this *slightly* sociopathic streak makes sex sex and not drama.

Sometimes I think all this healthy communication and forethought creates emotional turmoil where there need be none.

You can like someone, you can want in her pants, and she can still be the wrong person for a scene you want to do. Maybe you just need to find someone who isn't out to fuck with you all but also doesn't really stay up nights over you all either?

 

[ecstaticsub]

Simple solution - don't go doing scenes like this unless you can find a "third" who is absolutely callous to or aroused by the potential for "a crying mess on the floor." MY reaction is, if I'm getting my rocks off and I don't know you that well, your emotional fallout is your problem. This may make me less considerate than a lot of people, but I think this *slightly* sociopathic streak makes sex sex and not drama.

Sometimes I think all this healthy communication and forethought creates emotional turmoil where there need be none.

You can like someone, you can want in her pants, and she can still be the wrong person for a scene you want to do. Maybe you just need to find someone who isn't out to fuck with you all but also doesn't really stay up nights over you all either?

This is what I am slowly starting to learn and accept. The less I know = less overall drama= the more intense the scene= overall more successful experience.

You are absolutely correct.