Thank you

[Voboy]

Where do you put us then?

I agree the scores are not that important and even that readers come first, but there are simple things that would improve our experience, while taking nothing from the readers. We really don't have to be so far down the food chain.

We are voluntary, freelance content providers. We contribute grist, which the site grinds into flour and then makes money off of. Some of us get all het up about that; it sounds a lot like slavery.

But here's the deal: we chose to come here on those terms. We continue to choose to submit to those terms, and when we grow tired of doing so? We're free to leave. We can even, if we choose to, take our grist back from the miller on our way out the door.

We are wholly unaccountable to the website. We give them only what loyalty we choose to give. In return, they do the same; that's par for the course. It's been this way here for a long, long time. None of us came here under false pretenses, and we're not being stabbed in the back. So it's not where "I" put "us;" it's where I choose to put myself. Every other writer is free to make their own choices.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There is a certain number of people here who get a heart attack whenever someone criticizes Lit, no matter how politely and constructively one does it. I really hope Laurel is providing the beta blockers.

I don't get a heart attack. I just get sick to death of people who continually bitch and moan about the free service they're using, and want more more more.

I for one am quite content with the features the site gives me. Sure, it would be nice to have more, but I'm not paying, and the alternatives being proposed, like thumbs up and thumbs down, just suck. They're worse than useless.

And usually, when people moan about the scoring system and the scores they're getting, and I go take a look, there's a reason for those scores. But people don't like hearing that, they'd rather blame someone else.

 

[Bramblethorn]

- the contact author feature that requires the reader to provide his/her email to talk to the author, thus maybe making the reader uneasy about their anonymity and "contaminating" the email with messages about sex stories, the email they maybe use for work and other stuff.

The "contact author" feature does not require an email by default. That only happens if the author chooses to switch off anonymous feedback, and it shouldn't be hard to see why some might need that option.

Of course, if a reader wants a reply from the author they will need to include some method of contact for that to happen, but there's no requirement for that to be email. If they'd rather use ICQ, Discord, Skype, IRC, or telegram, they can provide the contact details in that same message.

It's pretty hard to please people who are going to complain about how the site works without even knowing how the site works.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm pretty sure it's NOT true that all 1 votes are swept.

Correct. There are stories with long-standing scores below 2.0, and even some with "perfect" 1.0s, which is only possible if the sweeps left 1s in the scoring.

Can also confirm that I've seen occasional 5* votes swept, even on a story where most of the remaining votes were also 5s. Presumably some technical evidence made those particular votes look suspicious.

 

[djrip]

That is truly messed-up. It's a form of bullying, I think. When people were bullied face-to-face, there was some risk involved for the aggressor. If they miscalculated, either the person attacked or someone they knew might kick their ass. I saw this myself, where people in New York knew not to start something they couldn't finish. On-line like this, there are no potential consequences.

“Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.”

 

[EmilyMiller]

Pissing off those types is a badge of honour. If they like your stories, that's when you might be doing something wrong.

You know, you are right.

Em

 

[Bramblethorn]

Honestly, I kinda wish LitE would switch to a thumbs up/down system like Reddit. People use the star system in wildly different ways, even as individuals. Sometimes it's "I like this," sometimes it's "this is well written," sometimes it's "I like the politics here." It's probably way too late to do it, but a simpler system really would be better.

I wonder if we even need that much. One of the other sites I'm on only has comments, view counts, bookmark counts, and "kudos" - effectively a thumbs-up without a thumbs-down option. Readers rely more on story content and blurb to find stuff to read. There doesn't seem to be much clamour there for downvote functionality.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I don't get a heart attack. I just get sick to death of people who continually bitch and moan about the free service they're using, and want more more more.

I for one am quite content with the features the site gives me. Sure, it would be nice to have more, but I'm not paying, and the alternatives being proposed, like thumbs up and thumbs down, just suck. They're worse than useless.

And usually, when people moan about the scoring system and the scores they're getting, and I go take a look, there's a reason for those scores. But people don't like hearing that, they'd rather blame someone else.

Do you hear yourself? I am bitching and moaning? I am making reasonable statement that we could try to ask for something that is important to some (many ) of us. We all want feedback. Readers would likely want easier and faster communication with us as well. There is nothing wrong with just politely and nicely asking for that. If we get it, hurrah, if we don't get it, well that is fine too, we tried at least. Even getting a reply from Lit would be an improvement as things stand right now. What @Voboy said in the last post is absolutely spot on. He feels he is getting back enough as it is right now, you do too, clearly. Why is it such a problem if some of us would like something more? Are we trying to take anything from you? I simply don't understand your hostility to our desire to make things a bit better for us. You don't want it, ok cool, but why do you have to react with negativity if some of us do?

 

[SimonDoom]

Absolutely false. I have been reading Lit stories for 15+ years on and off. I still read a story now and then, mostly older ones. You probably remember me saying something in Em's thread (well ONE of her threads...) the one where she wanted us to describe other authors. What I said there was that I haven't read anything from the AH authors, as this crowd here doesn't really write the kind of stories I like reading on Lit.

OK. I misunderstood what you said.

 

[Voboy]

There is nothing wrong with just politely and nicely asking for that. If we get it, hurrah, if we don't get it, well that is fine too, we tried at least. Even getting a reply from Lit would be an improvement as things stand right now.

Dozens of people have done exactly that, in just the time I've been here. Those asks have produced... nothing.

Perhaps that's the site, telling us it's fine with how things are? Possibly?

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Dozens of people have done exactly that, in just the time I've been here. Those asks have produced... nothing.

Perhaps that's the site, telling us it's fine with how things are? Possibly?

All right, you understand that some of us would want something more, but you think it's futile because some previous attempts have amounted to nothing. You've made your peace with it and that is all fine. As you can see, I haven't made my peace with it, so I would like to keep pointing out these things and I would really appreciate it if people could refrain from projecting hostility in their replies. The fact that there were attempts to make some things better for authors even before, tells me that some authors, maybe many, would want something more, even if they don't see it ever happening. Either way, unlike some others, I am not mocking/attacking anyone here, I am simply posting my opinion in a polite way and I really see no cause for being a target for angry replies or underhanded jabs. Btw, your replies were perfectly fine in this case, just saying in general.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Do you hear yourself? I am bitching and moaning? I am making reasonable statement that we could try to ask for something that is important to some (many ) of us. We all want feedback. Readers would likely want easier and faster communication with us as well. There is nothing wrong with just politely and nicely asking for that. If we get it, hurrah, if we don't get it, well that is fine too, we tried at least. Even getting a reply from Lit would be an improvement as things stand right now. What @Voboy said in the last post is absolutely spot on. He feels he is getting back enough as it is right now, you do too, clearly. Why is it such a problem if some of us would like something more? Are we trying to take anything from you? I simply don't understand your hostility to our desire to make things a bit better for us. You don't want it, ok cool, but why do you have to react with negativity if some of us do?

Did you not notice that it was you who first attacked defenders of the site? That's negativity, right from the start, and it's not the first time you've done that.

It's one thing to say, hey, what about this, what about that? - but your post up above took an unwarranted shot at those who defend the site and what it currently offers. If you had not posted that, I would not have reacted.

Do unto others. Be grateful for what the site gives you for nothing. That's all I'm saying. We all want more, but none of us are paying, so that's the basis of our business relationship with this site - we get what we are given, so be grateful for it.

 

[Voboy]

All right, you understand that some of us would want something more, but you think it's futile because some previous attempts have amounted to nothing. You've made your peace with it and that is all fine. As you can see, I haven't made my peace with it, so I would like to keep pointing out these things and I would really appreciate it if people could refrain from projecting hostility in their replies. The fact that there were attempts to make some things better for authors even before, tells me that some authors, maybe many, would want something more, even if they don't see it ever happening. Either way, unlike some others, I am not mocking/attacking anyone here, I am simply posting my opinion in a polite way and I really see no cause for being a target for angry replies or underhanded jabs. Btw, your replies were perfectly fine in this case, just saying in general.

Okay.

But as I and MANY others have told you before, we've been here longer than you have and you are, to put it kindly, "not the first crusader who has come in here and thought they could change things."

We're tired of seeing this as a re-tread. Surely you can relate to that... If so, what you perceive as "hostility" should move into perspective for you somewhat.

This thread wasn't started as YET ANOTHER THREAD about the voting system. Folks like you, who are hung up on that system, tend to gleefully steer threads that way. Some of us are tired of it, honestly.

No offense meant, ever. I can see where you're coming from. You seem to persist in NOT seeing where others are coming from, however.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Oh God - is this clay court, baseline rally still going on.

When I said I should spend less time on Lit, I think this was why.

Em

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Did you not notice that it was you who first attacked defenders of the site? That's negativity, right from the start, and it's not the first time you've done that.

It's one thing to say, hey, what about this, what about that? - but your post up above took an unwarranted shot at those who defend the site and what it currently offers. If you had not posted that, I would not have reacted.

Do unto others. Be grateful for what the site gives you for nothing. That's all I'm saying. We all want more, but none of us are paying, so that's the basis of our business relationship with this site - we get what we are given, so be grateful for it.

"Where do you put us then?

I agree the scores are not that important and even that readers come first, but there are simple things that would improve our experience, while taking nothing from the readers. We really don't have to be so far down the food chain. "

This is the post you reacted to. I attacked defenders of the website? Seriously? What does that even mean? Who are defenders of the website and who are you defending it from? It is like you are painting me as some kind of malicious hacker for voicing polite and constructive criticism about the way some things work on Lit. I think you should really ask yourself why such things provoke such idiosyncratic ( archaic use of term) reactions from you. I've always known you to be polite and even nice when it comes to other kinds of discussions. Either way, I simply wanted a reply from Voboy as he was strongly emphasizing (is this a pleonasm?) that Lit is all about readers. As you can see, he didn't get angry over it. It was just you.

Also, you can be grateful as much as you want to be, that is your choice 100%, but please do not try to force this gratefulness onto me. I am free to make my own choices and conclusions about how "grateful" I should be towards the website and its relations towards authors. I certainly don't have to be grateful to Lit to be here (even though being a reader also, I am grateful from that perspective). It is, as Voboy said, a business model before anything else and yes again, I feel I am being somewhat underpaid in this particular model. That doesn't mean that I should automatically quit the job though

 

[SeraphNocturne]

Come on, boys... hijacking Emily's thread to argue this apparently never-ending argument? Separate corners would be wise. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, but I think it's time to let this one go.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

This thread wasn't started as YET ANOTHER THREAD about the voting system. Folks like you, who are hung up on that system, tend to gleefully steer threads that way. Some of us are tired of it, honestly.

No offense meant, ever. I can see where you're coming from. You seem to persist in NOT seeing where others are coming from, however.

You can see for yourself that I haven't said a single thing about scores in this particular thread, except giving an advice to Em to PM Laurel, I simply reacted to your own post and wanted to ask you where do you see us authors in this whole process. Believe it or not, I do see these discussions as a Groundhog's Day of a sort and I certainly haven't been starting them for quite a while. But just as you can't seem to refrain from commenting on them when someone else starts the whole discussion, I can't seem to refrain from reacting as well. I probably should, but as I said, I am not quite ready to raise the white flag yet.

 

[Voboy]

That doesn't mean that I should automatically quit the job though

Nobody's saying you should.

My only point is that if you don't, that's a choice you're making. A choice to stay here and subject yourself to rules that weren't hidden from you, and still aren't. So choosing to stay here, to me, should preclude endless complaints about how things are done.

 

[MrPixel]

Oh God - is this clay court, baseline rally still going on.

Lovely metaphor. Somebody needs to rush the net and put us out of their misery.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Lovely metaphor. Somebody needs to rush the net and put us out of their misery.

New balls please.

Em

 

[Voboy]

New balls please.

Em

They'll wind up like this:

https://www.akc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Bulldog-laying-down-in-the-grass-tearing-apart-a-tennis-ball.jpeg

But yes. I heartily agree.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I found your postings to be a breath of fresh air. Come back when you can.

Missed this - thank you so much for saying so .

Em

 

[EmilyMiller]

Also you’re planning a wedding (if memory serves) and that is very stressful, especially juggling that and creative stuff too.

Again, missed this (brain was even more scrambled than normal). Yes you recall right, but not until next Spring and we have the venue and an bunch of other stuff sorted out, so not so much a source of stress right now. Will undoubtedly become one, his Mother might not appreciate my featishwear dress (this is a joke, in case it wasn’t obvious - hard to say “I do” through a ball-gag ).

Em

 

[djrip]

Again, missed this (brain was even more scrambled than normal). Yes you recall right, but not until next Spring and we have the venue and an bunch of other stuff sorted out, so not so much a source of stress right now. Will undoubtedly become one, his Mother might not appreciate my featishwear dress (this is a joke, in case it wasn’t obvious - hard to say “I do” through a ball-gag ).

Em

A joke, or the germ of a story...

 

[NoTalentHack]

Again, missed this (brain was even more scrambled than normal). Yes you recall right, but not until next Spring and we have the venue and an bunch of other stuff sorted out, so not so much a source of stress right now. Will undoubtedly become one, his Mother might not appreciate my featishwear dress (this is a joke, in case it wasn’t obvious - hard to say “I do” through a ball-gag ).

Em

Learn Morse.