Testosterone/Low Libido Questions

[PinkLace5]

I’m in a relationship with a man who struggles with intimacy and libido. This has been difficult for me considering we are both in our twenties, and I have what I consider to be a healthy sex drive. We have a very healthy relationship otherwise, but I have made it clear that I cannot move our relationship to the next stage (marriage) unless he actively seeks help for these problems. We have been living together now for over a year, and the issues became worse. Fortunately, because we have been dating for many years, I did feel comfortable bringing up how I’m feeling and what I need in our relationship. I provided many opportunities for him to be honest with me if the reason for his lack of interest in sex was difficult to discuss (sexuality, abuse, someone else, etc). He calmly and reassuringly denied them all. Because he goes out of his way every day to show me that he loves me, I believe he is being honest with me. Ultimately, I understand that if his behavior regarding sex doesn’t change, it’s my responsibility to end the relationship. It wouldn’t be fair to me or him to continue our relationship and expect him to change. He’s an amazing man. Maybe he’s just not interested in sex. Considering that we’ve been together for a long time and have improved certain aspects of intimacy, I decided that I would put in one last ditch effort. He’s not just my boyfriend; he’s my best friend.

I shared everything that I explained here and also discussed how his disinterest in sex has affected me. It’s very upsetting to feel undesirable, especially when you make the effort. I know he was afraid to lose me, so he agreed to go to couple’s therapy. We went together for a few sessions (I see this therapist on my own as well), and the therapist suggested that he go by himself because he may feel embarrassed to talk about certain things in front of me. She encouraged him to go to a urologist to get his testosterone levels checked. We were both surprised at the suggestion considering he is in his late twenties, but fortunately, he agreed. We found out that his testosterone levels are in fact very low for his age. His urologist started him on testosterone therapy right away. From doing some research, I discovered that he had other symptoms (depression, issues with weight, extreme fatigue, muscle/joint pain, etc.) in addition to low libido. He’s still continuing therapy and has really made an effort to be more intimate (hand holding, cuddling, and hugging.) After his first medication, he initiated sex for the first time this year and was more physically active and seemed happier. Because he’s adjusting to a new type of T medication (the previous one was denied by insurance), I’m still giving him time to adjust. I’m wondering if anyone here has either received testosterone replacement therapy or has a partner who takes testosterone for similar issues. I’m curious how the medication changed (or didn’t change) the situation and how best to restore sex into the relationship. Because this has been an ongoing issue, I’m trying hard to be as supportive as possible. I don’t want to nag him, but I also need to be able to communicate with him at times because this obviously affects me as well. He has only been taking T for a little over a month now. It would be really great to speak to someone who has any experience and/or advice. As always, thanks for reading!

 

[deliteme]

If he has testosterone issues he may also be suffering from depression which CAN induce a lower sex drive. Also the medications given for it (antidepressants) can also have the same effect...so its a lose/lose worse situation.

Give the meds 4-6 weeks to work...hormone therapy can take that long to kick in and if nothing improves see if you can get him into see an endocrinologist to see if anything else is out of whack. Don't be scared to look up the meds he is on and by that I mean all of them and check the safety sheets on them for contraindications (warnings that if you are on drug X you shouldn't take this drug for example)

If you do find anything like that don;t stop the meds (you can do more harm than good) and get it verified asap. Sometimes one doc doesn't know about meds you might be on for other things such as happened with my mother and her heart medication - it ended up setting off diabetes in her.

I wish you well and hang in there.

~ deliteme ~

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't know the whole story, of course, but fitting the pieces into their places it seems to me the OPs boyfriend knows he's living on borrowed time with her, and is stressed from this, too.

Whats the answer? I don't know. But I do know what most women do tho they wont confess to it, they take married lovers until the crisis is past or theyre ready to move on. I call it BORROWED SUGAR.

 

[Asshungry]

I’m in a relationship with a man who struggles with intimacy and libido. This has been difficult for me considering we are both in our twenties, and I have what I consider to be a healthy sex drive. We have a very healthy relationship otherwise, but I have made it clear that I cannot move our relationship to the next stage (marriage) unless he actively seeks help for these problems. We have been living together now for over a year, and the issues became worse. Fortunately, because we have been dating for many years, I did feel comfortable bringing up how I’m feeling and what I need in our relationship. I provided many opportunities for him to be honest with me if the reason for his lack of interest in sex was difficult to discuss (sexuality, abuse, someone else, etc). He calmly and reassuringly denied them all. Because he goes out of his way every day to show me that he loves me, I believe he is being honest with me. Ultimately, I understand that if his behavior regarding sex doesn’t change, it’s my responsibility to end the relationship. It wouldn’t be fair to me or him to continue our relationship and expect him to change. He’s an amazing man. Maybe he’s just not interested in sex. Considering that we’ve been together for a long time and have improved certain aspects of intimacy, I decided that I would put in one last ditch effort. He’s not just my boyfriend; he’s my best friend.

I shared everything that I explained here and also discussed how his disinterest in sex has affected me. It’s very upsetting to feel undesirable, especially when you make the effort. I know he was afraid to lose me, so he agreed to go to couple’s therapy. We went together for a few sessions (I see this therapist on my own as well), and the therapist suggested that he go by himself because he may feel embarrassed to talk about certain things in front of me. She encouraged him to go to a urologist to get his testosterone levels checked. We were both surprised at the suggestion considering he is in his late twenties, but fortunately, he agreed. We found out that his testosterone levels are in fact very low for his age. His urologist started him on testosterone therapy right away. From doing some research, I discovered that he had other symptoms (depression, issues with weight, extreme fatigue, muscle/joint pain, etc.) in addition to low libido. He’s still continuing therapy and has really made an effort to be more intimate (hand holding, cuddling, and hugging.) After his first medication, he initiated sex for the first time this year and was more physically active and seemed happier. Because he’s adjusting to a new type of T medication (the previous one was denied by insurance), I’m still giving him time to adjust. I’m wondering if anyone here has either received testosterone replacement therapy or has a partner who takes testosterone for similar issues. I’m curious how the medication changed (or didn’t change) the situation and how best to restore sex into the relationship. Because this has been an ongoing issue, I’m trying hard to be as supportive as possible. I don’t want to nag him, but I also need to be able to communicate with him at times because this obviously affects me as well. He has only been taking T for a little over a month now. It would be really great to speak to someone who has any experience and/or advice. As always, thanks for reading!

Sorry to hear you are going through this Pink. He is awful young to be having this issue. It hit me at 50 and it really sucked, I had all the issues you talked about. I could have had 3 naked beauties grinding all over me and could have cared less. The T-therapy will work but give it time. I tried several different medications before we found the one that worked good for me. Does he snore a lot? If so he should be checked for sleep apnea, it can cause all the mentioned problems and reduce testosterone as well. He really needs to see an Endocrinologist to manage this problem. There are a few side effects of T-therapy that need to be watched. It can cause a dangerous increase in hemoglobin which could lead to blood clots. Donating blood on a regular basis tends to keep that in check. The topical med that I use now doesnt cause this problem near as bad as the others did. My hemoglobin is still high but not too high.
Hope you both get back to a healthy sex life, he is lucky to have someone that cares so much.

 

[fire_breeze]

I don't know how much help this can be, but take from it what you will.

Actually, most doctors will recommend giving the meds 3 months to bring any type of hormones therapy to work. Then he goes for another test, they check his levels and readjust the medication. If readjustment is needed then he waits another 3 months.

Messed up hormones, be it testosterone, prolactin, thyroid what not, is a bitch to handle, particularly for the sufferer. They know that something is not quite right and it does cause a type of depression. I do not have low testosterones, but I do have hypothyroidism since I was 17 (and just recently I had to go through a major readjustment - still in progress) so I can most definitely relate to his frustration. My endo always has to caution me that one does not want a sudden readjustment to 'normal' levels, but rather slow to get the body and the patient used to the levels.

It takes time, it takes patience. I know you want to keep the lines of communications open, but don't push. It's a physical thing. He cannot help it and trust me, he IS frustrated. He knows something is off. If he is like me, he would rather not talk about because it is, in a way, embarrassing. His mood will lighten gradually. You cannot expect this to happen in a few days. It takes, as I said, a few months.

By the way, yes it may seem to you that he is young but previously doctors would have said that he suffered from depression and give him the wrong treatment. It seems that more and more doctors are ignoring the 'age' factor and studies have shown that hormone conditions are more common among the young than previously assumed.


And Jim? Borrowed sugar? Really? Bullshit. I find that insulting.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I don't know how much help this can be, but take from it what you will.

Actually, most doctors will recommend giving the meds 3 months to bring any type of hormones therapy to work. Then he goes for another test, they check his levels and readjust the medication. If readjustment is needed then he waits another 3 months.

Messed up hormones, be it testosterone, prolactin, thyroid what not, is a bitch to handle, particularly for the sufferer. They know that something is not quite right and it does cause a type of depression. I do not have low testosterones, but I do have hypothyroidism since I was 17 (and just recently I had to go through a major readjustment - still in progress) so I can most definitely relate to his frustration. My endo always has to caution me that one does not want a sudden readjustment to 'normal' levels, but rather slow to get the body and the patient used to the levels.

It takes time, it takes patience. I know you want to keep the lines of communications open, but don't push. It's a physical thing. He cannot help it and trust me, he IS frustrated. He knows something is off. If he is like me, he would rather not talk about because it is, in a way, embarrassing. His mood will lighten gradually. You cannot expect this to happen in a few days. It takes, as I said, a few months.

By the way, yes it may seem to you that he is young but previously doctors would have said that he suffered from depression and give him the wrong treatment. It seems that more and more doctors are ignoring the 'age' factor and studies have shown that hormone conditions are more common among the young than previously assumed.


And Jim? Borrowed sugar? Really? Bullshit. I find that insulting.

Its easier to borrow some sugar from a neighbor till something gives.

 

[PinkLace5]

Thank you!

If he has testosterone issues he may also be suffering from depression which CAN induce a lower sex drive. Also the medications given for it (antidepressants) can also have the same effect...so its a lose/lose worse situation.

Give the meds 4-6 weeks to work...hormone therapy can take that long to kick in and if nothing improves see if you can get him into see an endocrinologist to see if anything else is out of whack. Don't be scared to look up the meds he is on and by that I mean all of them and check the safety sheets on them for contraindications (warnings that if you are on drug X you shouldn't take this drug for example)

If you do find anything like that don;t stop the meds (you can do more harm than good) and get it verified asap. Sometimes one doc doesn't know about meds you might be on for other things such as happened with my mother and her heart medication - it ended up setting off diabetes in her.

I wish you well and hang in there.

~ deliteme ~

Thanks deliteme. He isn’t taking any other medication. For a short time, he was taking a muscle relaxer for the joint/muscle pain, but that was before the T. I didn’t mention that he is also seeing an endocrinologist. He had a full blood work up done with her, and his thyroid is functioning properly. The doctor does want to monitor his weight and blood levels again though because his liver levels were a bit high. He’s about forty/fifty pounds overweight, so she told him to start exercising again. He was working out earlier this year three-four times per week and didn’t see any type of change. She agreed that his T level was very low and recommended medication as well. I’m hoping the medication can help him. He has a follow up appointment with the endocrinologist in two months. If he hasn’t lost any weight by then, she said they may start looking into additional medication and a special diet plan to help him lose the weight.

Thank you for bringing up the harm in just stopping the medication. My boyfriend was on the gel initially (the drug company provided the first month free), and I observed a difference (not a huge one—but definitely a change) pretty quickly. Unfortunately, in the eyes of his insurance company, his levels, although very low, are on the low end of “the spectrum”; therefore, they’re considered “in the right range.” The company denied his prescription coverage, and we had a very limited amount of time to work on an appeal. While waiting, he was running out of the gel and decided to cut the amount of gel he used in half. This really worried me. His urologist suggested that he try the testosterone pellets (placed under the skin) because it’s covered by his insurance. He had that procedure done last week. I feel like his body is not only adjusting to the new medication but also recovering from the sudden change in dosage of the last medication. This is another reason why I’m being patient.

Sorry to hear you are going through this Pink. He is awful young to be having this issue. It hit me at 50 and it really sucked, I had all the issues you talked about. I could have had 3 naked beauties grinding all over me and could have cared less. The T-therapy will work but give it time. I tried several different medications before we found the one that worked good for me. Does he snore a lot? If so he should be checked for sleep apnea, it can cause all the mentioned problems and reduce testosterone as well. He really needs to see an Endocrinologist to manage this problem. There are a few side effects of T-therapy that need to be watched. It can cause a dangerous increase in hemoglobin which could lead to blood clots. Donating blood on a regular basis tends to keep that in check. The topical med that I use now doesnt cause this problem near as bad as the others did. My hemoglobin is still high but not too high.
Hope you both get back to a healthy sex life, he is lucky to have someone that cares so much.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. You are the first male who I’ve spoken to who has experienced this. Because we are young, I don’t have anyone to talk to about this who actually knows what it feels like. We’re both pretty clueless. I strongly believe that he’s always had this problem. I’m in good shape and go out of my way to look nice for him (and me!), and regardless of what I have done or said, he’s just not interested. This baffled and really destroyed me. My very close friends who I confided in are very supportive but have never known a man to have absolutely no interest in sex. I can’t even fully explain what that has been like to deal with. I always knew that there was something “wrong,” but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I have no doubt that he loves me, but he just seems to be missing a certain spark. It always felt like it was something that he was struggling with but didn’t understand. I truly feel that he doesn’t know what it’s like to experience desire or any sort of natural longing. He seemed to be relieved when he found out that there was a reason—I know I was. If you don’t mind my asking, has the medication (over time) completely restored your libido? Did you sense something was wrong before you were treated? I guess because we came so close to separating, I didn’t want to get my hopes up that the problem was 100% fixable. Of course, I wanted it to be, but this has been very painful (for both of us). I’m hoping that over time he feels confident and interested enough to initiate sex. He doesn’t snore, but luckily he does donate blood regularly, so I’m relieved about that.

I don't know how much help this can be, but take from it what you will.

Actually, most doctors will recommend giving the meds 3 months to bring any type of hormones therapy to work. Then he goes for another test, they check his levels and readjust the medication. If readjustment is needed then he waits another 3 months.

Messed up hormones, be it testosterone, prolactin, thyroid what not, is a bitch to handle, particularly for the sufferer. They know that something is not quite right and it does cause a type of depression. I do not have low testosterones, but I do have hypothyroidism since I was 17 (and just recently I had to go through a major readjustment - still in progress) so I can most definitely relate to his frustration. My endo always has to caution me that one does not want a sudden readjustment to 'normal' levels, but rather slow to get the body and the patient used to the levels.

It takes time, it takes patience. I know you want to keep the lines of communications open, but don't push. It's a physical thing. He cannot help it and trust me, he IS frustrated. He knows something is off. If he is like me, he would rather not talk about because it is, in a way, embarrassing. His mood will lighten gradually. You cannot expect this to happen in a few days. It takes, as I said, a few months.

By the way, yes it may seem to you that he is young but previously doctors would have said that he suffered from depression and give him the wrong treatment. It seems that more and more doctors are ignoring the 'age' factor and studies have shown that hormone conditions are more common among the young than previously assumed.


And Jim? Borrowed sugar? Really? Bullshit. I find that insulting.

Thank you so much for this advice, Fire Breeze. It seems he’s going to have to stay on the T for the rest of his life. The endocrinologist told him that the only time they will have to temporarily wean him off of it is when/if we have children. Because he is a man of few words, and I sense he is embarrassed about the whole situation, I have absolutely no idea how he feels or felt in the past. Any person who comes forward to discuss a similar problem and how it feels to experience it could really open my eyes to a problem that I am very unfamiliar with. His parents have been very critical about his weight and energy levels in the past, so I feel his self-esteem is also very, very low. I have struggled with health problems of my own, and he has been my main support system. I want to be as supportive in return. Right now, I’m dealing with the difficulties of the situation in therapy. Initially, I had to be honest enough with him about my concerns in order to encourage him to seek treatment, but now I know that I have to back off (which I have). Because this has been an issue in our relationship for years, my self-esteem has been greatly affected. Because I’m (unfortunately) only human at times, it’s very hard for me to hide my own sadness. Since I have been keeping it to myself around him, I decided to reach out here to see if anyone else has similar problems or is dating someone who does. On your worst days, what would you consider the most helpful/supportive coming from a partner or friend? It’s very difficult for me to see someone I love suffer, and I feel very helpless because I don’t know how to be supportive while also nursing my own insecurities over the same situation. It’s been a fine line for me between communicating about the problem and just feeling selfish and frustrated because I’ve been waiting for a change for years. I really don’t want to be that self-centered, insensitive person, and your (and Asshungry’s) experience gives me more of an idea about how this must feel for him.

 

[gagginforit]

I have a very low sex drive and it causes me depression. I had my levels tested and I'm borderline, but not low enough to warrent hormone therapy. When I found out they weren't going to give me something I was very disheartened as I'd pinned my hopes on it.

I feel like I will be like this forever. And it sucks.

 

[PinkLace5]

I have a very low sex drive and it causes me depression. I had my levels tested and I'm borderline, but not low enough to warrent hormone therapy. When I found out they weren't going to give me something I was very disheartened as I'd pinned my hopes on it.

I feel like I will be like this forever. And it sucks.

By any chance, did you get your blood work done with a regular doctor or a urologist? To my (limited) research/understanding, the actual range that is considered "normal" for testosterone is actually quite broad (levels from 200-900 or so--keep in mind I'm not an expert by any means on specific numbers). Unfortunately, in the past, I have read that some doctors have not considered other factors, such as age. My boyfriend's level was 300, and his urologist and endocrinologist both agreed that that was very low for a man in his twenties and suggested treatment. Last year, he had blood work done through his primary doctor after discussing the same problems. The doctor called to tell him he was borderline low but not "low enough" to be placed on medication. Fortunately, his urologist discussed the specifics of the issue in much more detail to explain why his "borderline" low level was actually too low for his age. Another thing to consider is when your T levels were checked. They should be highest in the morning according to the urologist. So again, his borderline level was very low taking into account the time of day and his age. I think it couldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I have a very low sex drive and it causes me depression. I had my levels tested and I'm borderline, but not low enough to warrent hormone therapy. When I found out they weren't going to give me something I was very disheartened as I'd pinned my hopes on it.

I feel like I will be like this forever. And it sucks.

I eat eggs.

I read an article that recommends eggs for breakfast before a date at night, and it works.

 

[gagginforit]

By any chance, did you get your blood work done with a regular doctor or a urologist? To my (limited) research/understanding, the actual range that is considered "normal" for testosterone is actually quite broad (levels from 200-900 or so--keep in mind I'm not an expert by any means on specific numbers). Unfortunately, in the past, I have read that some doctors have not considered other factors, such as age. My boyfriend's level was 300, and his urologist and endocrinologist both agreed that that was very low for a man in his twenties and suggested treatment. Last year, he had blood work done through his primary doctor after discussing the same problems. The doctor called to tell him he was borderline low but not "low enough" to be placed on medication. Fortunately, his urologist discussed the specifics of the issue in much more detail to explain why his "borderline" low level was actually too low for his age. Another thing to consider is when your T levels were checked. They should be highest in the morning according to the urologist. So again, his borderline level was very low taking into account the time of day and his age. I think it couldn't hurt to get a second opinion.

I went to an endocrinologist who examined me thoroughly. I think I had two seperate blood tests. But I think you're right, a second opinion wouldn't hurt. There is a lot about me that I think would be explained by low testosterone.

Thank you, I appreciate your comment.

 

[DrHappy]

Pinklace, it looks like you've gotten some good advice already. How old is he? You hinted at a possibility of wanting kids later, though, I wasn't sure if that was just a quote from the doctor. I'm currently doing injections and it's great. I tried the gel and it sucked. The doctor increased the dose, and I felt worse. A guy can also include HCG injections as part of the therapy in order to keep the testicles from atrophying, which may also help with recovery for fertility. Bodybuilders who use high doses of testosterone use HCG for this purpose. If he's young, it may help to supplement his testosterone levels by stimulating his own production a little.

I never had a problem with low sex drive or performance. I was just incredibly tired, both physically and mentally, and emotionally spent.

Gagginforit, what were your levels? Most mainstream endocrinologists are pretty conservative when prescribing testosterone, and many are poorly educated on it's administration. It seems that many are still relying on old information that they were taught in med school. They don't have to bother with problematic insurance issues as long as they only deal with thyroid and diabetic patients. Here's a link that shows Normal Testosterone Levelsin Men. The bottom table shows units that are commonly reported in most labs. Many doctors simply look at the reference ranges reported by the lab that did the blood work. It may say that 260 is "normal," but that may be normal for a 90 year old man. Regardless of your age, you probably aren't going to feel very well if you are below 400. You may need to look for a doctor that specializes in testosterone treatment.

 

[fire_breeze]

<snip>

Thank you so much for this advice, Fire Breeze. It seems he’s going to have to stay on the T for the rest of his life. The endocrinologist told him that the only time they will have to temporarily wean him off of it is when/if we have children. Because he is a man of few words, and I sense he is embarrassed about the whole situation, I have absolutely no idea how he feels or felt in the past. Any person who comes forward to discuss a similar problem and how it feels to experience it could really open my eyes to a problem that I am very unfamiliar with. His parents have been very critical about his weight and energy levels in the past, so I feel his self-esteem is also very, very low. I have struggled with health problems of my own, and he has been my main support system. I want to be as supportive in return. Right now, I’m dealing with the difficulties of the situation in therapy. Initially, I had to be honest enough with him about my concerns in order to encourage him to seek treatment, but now I know that I have to back off (which I have). Because this has been an issue in our relationship for years, my self-esteem has been greatly affected. Because I’m (unfortunately) only human at times, it’s very hard for me to hide my own sadness. Since I have been keeping it to myself around him, I decided to reach out here to see if anyone else has similar problems or is dating someone who does. On your worst days, what would you consider the most helpful/supportive coming from a partner or friend? It’s very difficult for me to see someone I love suffer, and I feel very helpless because I don’t know how to be supportive while also nursing my own insecurities over the same situation. It’s been a fine line for me between communicating about the problem and just feeling selfish and frustrated because I’ve been waiting for a change for years. I really don’t want to be that self-centered, insensitive person, and your (and Asshungry’s) experience gives me more of an idea about how this must feel for him.

Meh. He should not consider it a burden. I have to be on synthroid for the rest of my life, and I take it at the same time with my morning coffee. It's really no biggie, unless he makes it so. It may be also worth noting that our current lifestyle may (and I emphasise on the may) contribute to the sluggish hormone production. If we are meant to work and be on the move 12 hours in a day... well. It does take a toll.

I don't know enough about testosterone and fertility. For me, when I have children, I will need to be on sythroid. This is something you both need to discuss with his endo.

Once he starts feeling better, I promise you his energy level and his weight will return to normal. Yes, now he is being criticised - it might be a good idea for you to point out that he is not feeling energetic not because he doesn't want to but because he physically cannot. But once the hormones kick in and his mood stabilises, he will be able to lose weight. Has he told his parents that he has a medical condition? It's not drastic, it's not life altering. It's just takes minor adjustments.

My levels are pretty stable and they have been for years, so I don't really have 'bad days' caused by low thyroid (my first indication is weight gain and hoarse voice). At the beginning, I had trouble adjusting, but my parents were extremely supportive. I was 17 and didn't really have friends. My situation is different from your fiancé's. Once his levels stabilises, he will not be in a funk and he will find that his mood and communication will improve.

May I suggest something? Don't solely focus on him. You also need to address some issues, and I know personally that it makes me feel guilty if my all ignores his problems to focus on me. You need to heal as well. It's okay to say "I need to focus on me a little right now". He will be relieved to not to have to think of himself. When I had a dip, my all went through some things. I liked to be able help him - it took my mind off of me, made me feel good and before I knew it, I felt much better. I didn't sit waiting - I met my good mood. Just a thought.

He WILL have bad days. Hell, he WILL have bad weeks. Everybody in the world has them. Work, a fight with you, car troubles... all these can make for a bad days/weeks. I start to get worried when it's been a couple of weeks and I can't seem to shake it off. That's when I get my levels checked - and 8/10, I'm normal. The other 2 times, they have dipped so we have to do something. Simple.

Be patient until his endo says that his levels are stabilised. Until then, expect moodiness and frustration. He is, literally, trying to walk after limping through life on a broken foot. The foot is being repaired and now he has to figure a lot of things out. But he will get better. (and not all bad days, bad sex, moodiness can be blamed on T. Sometimes shit just happens).


Good luck

I went to an endocrinologist who examined me thoroughly. I think I had two seperate blood tests. But I think you're right, a second opinion wouldn't hurt. There is a lot about me that I think would be explained by low testosterone.

Thank you, I appreciate your comment.

Here's a tip: if you are on the low end, ask if there is any supplements that can give you a boost. For example, my doc (who is Polish, thank God!) recommends St. John's Wort for mild depression. My funk, due to SAD, didn't warrant -in her opinion- medication, but I needed a boost. A combination of happy light, SJW, increased exercise and very limited tanning (like 3 minutes at the lowest level) got me right up there. If your T is on the lower end but you're still feeling the effects, ask what else you can do. It might be that you need to eat more, or exercise, or that your body is lacking a specific mineral or vitamin that mimics low T symptoms (such as many people with mild depression actually have low vit D). It's worth a shot .

 

[gagginforit]

Hi. Here are the results they sent me in a letter. I don't remember them telling me what the actual numbers were.

05 June 2012 - Testosterone at 0800 was 7.8 (8-29)
29 Oct 2012 - Testosterone 10.4 (8-29) at 1209 hours
2nd Nov 2012 - Testosterone 10.5 (8-29) at 0845 hrs.

Maybe New Zealand measures it differently as you mentioned levels below 400 were low. But this looks consistent with the table you linked to for my age range of 35 - 44.

Thank you.

Gagginforit, what were your levels? Most mainstream endocrinologists are pretty conservative when prescribing testosterone, and many are poorly educated on it's administration. It seems that many are still relying on old information that they were taught in med school. They don't have to bother with problematic insurance issues as long as they only deal with thyroid and diabetic patients. Here's a link that shows Normal Testosterone Levelsin Men. The bottom table shows units that are commonly reported in most labs. Many doctors simply look at the reference ranges reported by the lab that did the blood work. It may say that 260 is "normal," but that may be normal for a 90 year old man. Regardless of your age, you probably aren't going to feel very well if you are below 400. You may need to look for a doctor that specializes in testosterone treatment.

 

[gagginforit]

Here's a tip: if you are on the low end, ask if there is any supplements that can give you a boost. For example, my doc (who is Polish, thank God!) recommends St. John's Wort for mild depression. My funk, due to SAD, didn't warrant -in her opinion- medication, but I needed a boost. A combination of happy light, SJW, increased exercise and very limited tanning (like 3 minutes at the lowest level) got me right up there. If your T is on the lower end but you're still feeling the effects, ask what else you can do. It might be that you need to eat more, or exercise, or that your body is lacking a specific mineral or vitamin that mimics low T symptoms (such as many people with mild depression actually have low vit D). It's worth a shot .

I will do that when I go see them. Thanks.

 

[DrHappy]

Gagginforit, congratulations, you are in the lowest 5th percentile for your age group. I say this not to poke fun at you, but to agree with you and to that yes, you do have a legitimate concern that a competent doctor should address with you.

FYI: I calculated that your measurement was about 1.65 standard deviations below the mean (Z- score). With that your Z-score, you can look up the percentile. There’s a formula, but you can look up your percentile for 1.65 at the link below:

http://sph.bu.edu/otlt/MPH-Modules/BS/BS704_Probability/BS704_Probability10.html

I computed the 5th percentile using an average of your lab results (9.6). The average levels for your age group was 20.7. The average of the two standard deviations for your age group was 6.71. Subtract your levels (9.6) from the average of the age group (20.7) , and divide that by the standard deviation to get your z-score: (20.7 – 9.6) / 6.71 = 1.65. You can get a more accurate number if you use the numbers for your actual age group. Regardless, your numbers are intolerably low and I would make a serious effort to get treatment.

 

[gagginforit]

Gagginforit, congratulations, you are in the lowest 5th percentile for your age group. I say this not to poke fun at you, but to agree with you and to that yes, you do have a legitimate concern that a competent doctor should address with you.

FYI: I calculated that your measurement was about 1.65 standard deviations below the mean (Z- score). With that your Z-score, you can look up the percentile. There’s a formula, but you can look up your percentile for 1.65 at the link below:

http://sph.bu.edu/otlt/MPH-Modules/BS/BS704_Probability/BS704_Probability10.html

I computed the 5th percentile using an average of your lab results (9.6). The average levels for your age group was 20.7. The average of the two standard deviations for your age group was 6.71. Subtract your levels (9.6) from the average of the age group (20.7) , and divide that by the standard deviation to get your z-score: (20.7 – 9.6) / 6.71 = 1.65. You can get a more accurate number if you use the numbers for your actual age group. Regardless, your numbers are intolerably low and I would make a serious effort to get treatment.

That's good news! It means I'm fixable!

Do you know what a doctor who specialises in hormones and testosterone is called? I could go to a general practitioner (a different one to get a second opinion) but I might get the same result. Or if I show them that letter they might say my levels are fine. What should I do then? Or would I be better going to a sexual health clinic?

 

[PinkLace5]

Pinklace, it looks like you've gotten some good advice already. How old is he? You hinted at a possibility of wanting kids later, though, I wasn't sure if that was just a quote from the doctor. I'm currently doing injections and it's great. I tried the gel and it sucked. The doctor increased the dose, and I felt worse. A guy can also include HCG injections as part of the therapy in order to keep the testicles from atrophying, which may also help with recovery for fertility. Bodybuilders who use high doses of testosterone use HCG for this purpose. If he's young, it may help to supplement his testosterone levels by stimulating his own production a little.

I never had a problem with low sex drive or performance. I was just incredibly tired, both physically and mentally, and emotionally spent.

My boyfriend is 26. We would like to have kids in the future, but the information came from the doctor. The fertility issues are still something that I know very little about when it comes to taking testosterone. I did share with my boyfriend that I want him to ask some questions regarding fertility at his next endocrinologist appointment. It's something that does concern me. His urologist recommended the injections, but he firmly stated that he doesn't want to go that route. He would have to go to his urologist every other week, and he has a difficult work schedule. I wish he would consider injections because I've read positive things, but ultimately, it's up to him. Thanks again so much for your help!

Once he starts feeling better, I promise you his energy level and his weight will return to normal. Yes, now he is being criticised - it might be a good idea for you to point out that he is not feeling energetic not because he doesn't want to but because he physically cannot. But once the hormones kick in and his mood stabilises, he will be able to lose weight. Has he told his parents that he has a medical condition? It's not drastic, it's not life altering. It's just takes minor adjustments.

My levels are pretty stable and they have been for years, so I don't really have 'bad days' caused by low thyroid (my first indication is weight gain and hoarse voice). At the beginning, I had trouble adjusting, but my parents were extremely supportive. I was 17 and didn't really have friends. My situation is different from your fiancé's. Once his levels stabilises, he will not be in a funk and he will find that his mood and communication will improve.

May I suggest something? Don't solely focus on him. You also need to address some issues, and I know personally that it makes me feel guilty if my all ignores his problems to focus on me. You need to heal as well. It's okay to say "I need to focus on me a little right now". He will be relieved to not to have to think of himself. When I had a dip, my all went through some things. I liked to be able help him - it took my mind off of me, made me feel good and before I knew it, I felt much better. I didn't sit waiting - I met my good mood. Just a thought.

He WILL have bad days. Hell, he WILL have bad weeks. Everybody in the world has them. Work, a fight with you, car troubles... all these can make for a bad days/weeks. I start to get worried when it's been a couple of weeks and I can't seem to shake it off. That's when I get my levels checked - and 8/10, I'm normal. The other 2 times, they have dipped so we have to do something. Simple.

Be patient until his endo says that his levels are stabilised. Until then, expect moodiness and frustration. He is, literally, trying to walk after limping through life on a broken foot. The foot is being repaired and now he has to figure a lot of things out. But he will get better. (and not all bad days, bad sex, moodiness can be blamed on T. Sometimes shit just happens).


Good luck

Thanks again for taking the time out to answer my questions and offer advice. I really appreciate it. He has always struggled with his weight. Unfortunately, his parents (mostly dad) have been extremely critical of him. His dad will bring up his "laziness" and weight in private, in front of me, in front of family/friends, or in public in front of strangers. It has truly led to many cringe worthy moments. I strongly feel that he has no confidence when it comes to his looks, which is a shame because he's good looking! I'm hoping that therapy can help him address some of these issues, and I try to compliment him from time to time (not too much b/c he's so uncomfortable to begin with). His mom really means well, but she is the type to really make a huge deal over something that is quite manageable. Because traditional masculinity is considered so important in their home, I think he's afraid of being mistreated even more than he has in the past if he was to tell them. Part of me wishes that he would say something because his energy levels and weight are not his fault. I have gently suggested to him that it is worth considering. My biggest fear is that even with the T, his interest in sex won't change. I think the T is a huge part of the problem, but his lack of confidence and strict, Catholic upbringing are also a factor. I can only be patient to see if we can work through things once he stabilizes his health. In the meantime, I absolutely agree with your advice. I can take some time to work on my own issues in the meantime. Thanks

 

[PinkLace5]

You're welcome, Gagginforit. I would find a urologist and another endocrinologist for blood work and a second opinion.

 

[MrCumwell]

Low t

So I've been on androgel for about 4 years now. I get my blood checked every six months to check levels. I'm 56 and had testicular cancer, so I only have one testicle. I can tell you that, yes, it can take as long as three months for the meds to take full effect. If you're willing, give it time. Make sure that he gets tested regularly and increase the dose if he can. low T is not just about sex drive, it is about overall health. At his young age, with low numbers, he's looking at osteoporosis, chronic fatigue and depression. Even if you guys don't stick together, he still needs this for himself.
I hope this helps.

 

[DrHappy]

Do you know what a doctor who specialises in hormones and testosterone is called?

Over here, they are called endocrinologist. The old mainstream endocrinologists tend to treat mostly diabetes or thyroid, and some tend to avoid testosterone treatments. Some are fine with testosterone treatments, but they are sometimes hard to find. However, we also have a new industry of doctors who specialist in hormone replacement therapy for men. You may try searching for a clinic in your area using the key words "hormone clinic" or "hormone replacement therapy."

 

[tarzan_thong]

Pinklace5,

He is distracted by too much media in our society. You are 1 thing of millions competing for his attention, sorry but true - it didnt used to be this way. I have some natural advice for mostly him and you.

Deep inside every males mind, its all animalistic. If that area of thought has never really been peaked or developed in him, this scenario of advice may help...

Have him train for a fictional fight - he must knock opponent out to win you.
Some females (maybe you too), get excited by thought of two good physical specimens fighting for the right to mate her. This should keep you involved in this. Cast personalities and all that aside. You want the best male to propogate with.

Above fantasy, forces him to the gym. Lift heavy weights 3x week. low reps to exhaustion
Eat eggs, salmon, steak, and vegetables (Paleo diet).
Sunbathe in nude. this boosts Testosterone and Vit D naturally (Google this).
Running sprint interval speeds (short distance).
Punch a heavy bag to get heart rate up.
Watch him train, tell him to flex his muscles for you wearing a speedo and rate his progress.

It will take time, but he should beef up and be ready in 3 monhs. He will turn off his other distractions and BAM its going to happen, trust me. All kinds of T will be coursing through his veins!

I highly recommend NOT pursuing all this replacement therapy junk. LIVE

 

[fire_breeze]

[QUOTEQUOTE=PinkLace5;48118362]

Thanks again for taking the time out to answer my questions and offer advice. I really appreciate it. He has always struggled with his weight. Unfortunately, his parents (mostly dad) have been extremely critical of him. His dad will bring up his "laziness" and weight in private, in front of me, in front of family/friends, or in public in front of strangers. It has truly led to many cringe worthy moments. I strongly feel that he has no confidence when it comes to his looks, which is a shame because he's good looking! I'm hoping that therapy can help him address some of these issues, and I try to compliment him from time to time (not too much b/c he's so uncomfortable to begin with). His mom really means well, but she is the type to really make a huge deal over something that is quite manageable. Because traditional masculinity is considered so important in their home, I think he's afraid of being mistreated even more than he has in the past if he was to tell them. Part of me wishes that he would say something because his energy levels and weight are not his fault. I have gently suggested to him that it is worth considering. My biggest fear is that even with the T, his interest in sex won't change. I think the T is a huge part of the problem, but his lack of confidence and strict, Catholic upbringing are also a factor. I can only be patient to see if we can work through things once he stabilizes his health. In the meantime, I absolutely agree with your advice. I can take some time to work on my own issues in the meantime. Thanks[/QUOTE]

I think that he has several issues here that are linked but separate. His physical issues (which, as you have noticed, can spiral someone down and bring the mood to the pits) and his relationship with his parents.

While I cannot 100% promise, I can say for almost all certainty that once his levels are back up, he will be active again, he will find his interest and many of the physical things will resolve itself.

Take it one step at a time. First, work on having his physical levels to normal. You know when you are sick as a dog? You aren't interested in sex, right? Well... similar. His body is exhausted. He may mentally desire you but his body isn't co-operating. Once his levels are normal, then you can work on relearning on desiring each other.

Let him know it's not his fault that he physically cannot perform. Try to show intimacy in other ways. My all, for example, will always touch me. We may not have sex, but even just watching TV, we will be touching. Find ways that you both can be intimate.

Once his levels are back up, then move onto his other issues.

Don't push for him to talk about it. He may not be ready for it, he may not want it. Support him, but one step at a time. He doesn't have to tell his family if he doesn't want to. Reassure him that you love him and that you are not his family. Yes, suggest therapy, but also realise that he may not really want it, or maybe not now.

Another thing: why not make something physical an activity for you both? Cycling? Rowing? Even just walking? Take salsa lessons. An activity that is active and that you both can enjoy? It might help him jump start on losing weight, it will help to boost his mood and it's not obvious that he is getting fit. The point is for you two to do something you both enjoy together and have fun. Weight loss and mood boosting is a side effect.

And my biggest suggestion? BABY STEPS!!!! One challenge at a time. It WILL take time.

Pinklace5,

He is distracted by too much media in our society. You are 1 thing of millions competing for his attention, sorry but true - it didnt used to be this way. I have some natural advice for mostly him and you.

Deep inside every males mind, its all animalistic. If that area of thought has never really been peaked or developed in him, this scenario of advice may help...

Have him train for a fictional fight - he must knock opponent out to win you.
Some females (maybe you too), get excited by thought of two good physical specimens fighting for the right to mate her. This should keep you involved in this. Cast personalities and all that aside. You want the best male to propogate with.

Above fantasy, forces him to the gym. Lift heavy weights 3x week. low reps to exhaustion
Eat eggs, salmon, steak, and vegetables (Paleo diet).
Sunbathe in nude. this boosts Testosterone and Vit D naturally (Google this).
Running sprint interval speeds (short distance).
Punch a heavy bag to get heart rate up.
Watch him train, tell him to flex his muscles for you wearing a speedo and rate his progress.

It will take time, but he should beef up and be ready in 3 monhs. He will turn off his other distractions and BAM its going to happen, trust me. All kinds of T will be coursing through his veins!

I highly recommend NOT pursuing all this replacement therapy junk. LIVE

I really hope that you will not take offense, but I have noticed some grave misinformation that I must point out.

\soapbox
Sometimes, people need some sort of medication. I do not advocate medicating, and will usually try alternative methods first, but I know that in some cases, I need to use laboratory medication. If it calls for it, it calls for it.

Her fiance has low T. I have no doubt that with lifestyle change, he will also benefit from it and that it will boost and help, but he does need some sort of hormone therapy. Not every imbalance can be handled with only lifestyle change.

Forcing someone, and then having them 'fight' is beyond inconceivable and please do not take offense, but stupid. You obviously do not have any idea what it's like to suffer from low hormones. You cannot force someone to go to the gym. They can't. It often takes all sorts of control to get through the day and doing minimal stuff. It's not like her fiancé does not want to be a stud. He probably does. His BODY does not allow him. Some exercise may help, but trust me, it's extremely EXTREMELY difficult. As a poster mentioned who suffered from low T before therapy, he could have had 3 beautiful women fucking over him and it did nothing to him.

Your suggesting of fighting for her perpetuates the myth that all men are Neanderthals. T is not about of 'me-caveman-me-protect-my-woman-me-drag-her-to-the-cave. It might not even be him. He may be a gentle, caring man who abhors violence and aggression. Newsflash: deep down in everybody's brain is animalistic. Let's stop assuming that men are dumb animals who much have their bloodlust, shall we? It's patently false.

The sunbathing in nude study is only one, done in Gratz Austria, with a small control group. The study used healthy males with healthy amount of levels and had them sunbathing in the winter months, when testosterone levels drop naturally. This is NOT enough to conclusively prove that sunbathing in the nude will raise up T levels in men who already has low levels. It's like saying extra vit D and sun, because they help with SAD, will help those who are already suffering from depression.

He suffers from low hormones. His body will NOT allow him to 'beef up' or become the next Hulk. With proper dosage AND lifestyle changes (healthy eating, proper exercise), he will become healthier and his mood will improve. But to say he will be a beefcake in 3 months solely by going to the gym and eating a specific diet (which has minimal study to back it up as a T booster) is a) patently untrue and b) actually quite dangerous. He should have a endo who is willing to work his patient in order to develop a holistic, healthy individual that has meds to support but shouldn't solely rely on them.

It's called balance.

Again, sorry for what may seem to be a harsh attack, but I have heard it when I suffer from a thyroid drop and it really really frustrated me. 'Go to the gym, eat better and all will be well'. Well, no. I went to the gym and could not - physically could not - do more than 10 minutes. I could NOT lose weight, not because I didn't take care of what I ate, but because my body wouldn't allow me. But after a few months on synthroid, my weight dropped, and I was able to move more than 10 minutes. My body had the proper levels to function normally. (by the way, I do go to the gym regularly and watch what I eat, and even so, I will never ever be thin. When I start not being able to, that is when I know I probably have a thyroid drop).

Before preaching, do a bit of research and try to understand that sometimes, a condition cannot be resolved solely with non-medicine and that the best way is a combination of lifestyle change, as you proposed, that suits HIM and the OP and WITH meds.

/soapbox.

 

[Asshungry]

Thanks deliteme. He isn’t taking any other medication. For a short time, he was taking a muscle relaxer for the joint/muscle pain, but that was before the T. I didn’t mention that he is also seeing an endocrinologist. He had a full blood work up done with her, and his thyroid is functioning properly. The doctor does want to monitor his weight and blood levels again though because his liver levels were a bit high. He’s about forty/fifty pounds overweight, so she told him to start exercising again. He was working out earlier this year three-four times per week and didn’t see any type of change. She agreed that his T level was very low and recommended medication as well. I’m hoping the medication can help him. He has a follow up appointment with the endocrinologist in two months. If he hasn’t lost any weight by then, she said they may start looking into additional medication and a special diet plan to help him lose the weight.

Thank you for bringing up the harm in just stopping the medication. My boyfriend was on the gel initially (the drug company provided the first month free), and I observed a difference (not a huge one—but definitely a change) pretty quickly. Unfortunately, in the eyes of his insurance company, his levels, although very low, are on the low end of “the spectrum”; therefore, they’re considered “in the right range.” The company denied his prescription coverage, and we had a very limited amount of time to work on an appeal. While waiting, he was running out of the gel and decided to cut the amount of gel he used in half. This really worried me. His urologist suggested that he try the testosterone pellets (placed under the skin) because it’s covered by his insurance. He had that procedure done last week. I feel like his body is not only adjusting to the new medication but also recovering from the sudden change in dosage of the last medication. This is another reason why I’m being patient.




Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. You are the first male who I’ve spoken to who has experienced this. Because we are young, I don’t have anyone to talk to about this who actually knows what it feels like. We’re both pretty clueless. I strongly believe that he’s always had this problem. I’m in good shape and go out of my way to look nice for him (and me!), and regardless of what I have done or said, he’s just not interested. This baffled and really destroyed me. My very close friends who I confided in are very supportive but have never known a man to have absolutely no interest in sex. I can’t even fully explain what that has been like to deal with. I always knew that there was something “wrong,” but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I have no doubt that he loves me, but he just seems to be missing a certain spark. It always felt like it was something that he was struggling with but didn’t understand. I truly feel that he doesn’t know what it’s like to experience desire or any sort of natural longing. He seemed to be relieved when he found out that there was a reason—I know I was. If you don’t mind my asking, has the medication (over time) completely restored your libido? Did you sense something was wrong before you were treated? I guess because we came so close to separating, I didn’t want to get my hopes up that the problem was 100% fixable. Of course, I wanted it to be, but this has been very painful (for both of us). I’m hoping that over time he feels confident and interested enough to initiate sex. He doesn’t snore, but luckily he does donate blood regularly, so I’m relieved about that.





Thank you so much for this advice, Fire Breeze. It seems he’s going to have to stay on the T for the rest of his life. The endocrinologist told him that the only time they will have to temporarily wean him off of it is when/if we have children. Because he is a man of few words, and I sense he is embarrassed about the whole situation, I have absolutely no idea how he feels or felt in the past. Any person who comes forward to discuss a similar problem and how it feels to experience it could really open my eyes to a problem that I am very unfamiliar with. His parents have been very critical about his weight and energy levels in the past, so I feel his self-esteem is also very, very low. I have struggled with health problems of my own, and he has been my main support system. I want to be as supportive in return. Right now, I’m dealing with the difficulties of the situation in therapy. Initially, I had to be honest enough with him about my concerns in order to encourage him to seek treatment, but now I know that I have to back off (which I have). Because this has been an issue in our relationship for years, my self-esteem has been greatly affected. Because I’m (unfortunately) only human at times, it’s very hard for me to hide my own sadness. Since I have been keeping it to myself around him, I decided to reach out here to see if anyone else has similar problems or is dating someone who does. On your worst days, what would you consider the most helpful/supportive coming from a partner or friend? It’s very difficult for me to see someone I love suffer, and I feel very helpless because I don’t know how to be supportive while also nursing my own insecurities over the same situation. It’s been a fine line for me between communicating about the problem and just feeling selfish and frustrated because I’ve been waiting for a change for years. I really don’t want to be that self-centered, insensitive person, and your (and Asshungry’s) experience gives me more of an idea about how this must feel for him.

Pink; My libido did improve significantly, not what a man his age should be but then again Im 54. I originally assumed it was an aging process, just mentioned it to my Dr. and he checked it as part of my physical. I have no problem achieving an erection now that my levels are good and Im almost always in the mood. There are 2 different testosterone levels to watch. first is total testosterone and you want it at the upper end of normal. second is free testosterone, this is the important one, its the testosterone that is available to do its magic on the body. doesnt really matter how high total is if free testosterone remains low. Best of luck to both of you and hopefully you will be getting all you need before long.

 

[pplwatching]

I realize that I'm late to the thread, but I'll chime in. In my experience we have to look at the male libido as a system, and not a "thing". There are a lot of things that influence each other, and sometime cause each other. I am in my late 40s. I have low testosterone, am a bit overweight, and suffer from sleep apnea. Low testosterone causes weight gain, apnea causes weight gain, weight gain causes apnea and lower free testosterone. It's a cycle.

Among the things that I have struggled with are sex drive, overall sense of well being, fatigue, motivation, and a few other things. Any one or more of those symptoms can have more than one cause. My approach to managing my health is based on the "body as a system" for lack of a better explanation. It has included getting treatment for the apnea, using a prescription 3% testosterone creme, diet and exercise. I backslide on the diet constantly, unfortunately.

This road has taken more than a year. Insurance, overbooked Dr's, waiting for test results, repeating tests, waiting for another visit to the dr all wasted weeks and months.

Any one of the treatments I'm using (apnea, testosterone) might be contributing to my overall improvement in mood, sex drive, and energy. I went on a strenuous backpacking trip this summer and lost 10 lbs. Most of that was probably water, but after getting back my wife didn't know what hit her in bed Driven and hard as steel like I havent felt in ages. I think that by approaching the body as a system I have improved the outcome.

Best of luck to you.