Testing readers 'morality'

[lovecraft68]

I use violence to get my sex, well, BDSM violence at least.

Sex so violent its just about a fight.

I opened a long running I/T series with a hardcore nasty biting and scratching to draw blood sex scene that came out of nowhere between the brother and sister, and in that category the general reaction was "WTF was that" and one memorable one that still makes me laugh 15 years later. "Sir, that is no way for a loving brother to treat his beautiful sister"

 

[lovecraft68]

 

[MillieDynamite]

We are young Heartache to heartache We stand No promises No demands Love is a battlefield

Sex so violent its just about a fight.

I opened a long running I/T series with a hardcore nasty biting and scratching to draw blood sex scene that came out of nowhere between the brother and sister, and in that category the general reaction was "WTF was that" and one memorable one that still makes me laugh 15 years later. "Sir, that is no way for a loving brother to treat his beautiful sister"

 

[MillieDynamite]

"Never Been to Spain" by Three Dog Night, which was written by the late great Oklahoma native Hoyt Axton.

 

[lovecraft68]

We are young Heartache to heartache We stand No promises No demands Love is a battlefield

 

[SerenaSteeleMonroe]

Sex so violent its just about a fight.

I opened a long running I/T series with a hardcore nasty biting and scratching to draw blood sex scene that came out of nowhere between the brother and sister, and in that category the general reaction was "WTF was that" and one memorable one that still makes me laugh 15 years later. "Sir, that is no way for a loving brother to treat his beautiful sister"

I probably need to read that one.

 

[lovecraft68]

I probably need to read that one.

Its short, only two pages, but it was the second thing I published here and the grammar is...um...shoddy. Literally learning to write on the fly.

I also-and I cringe about it now-use the big cock trope, which I have never used outside of that series.

Shame....shame.....shame....

 

[Voboy]

When the wind comes right behind the rain...

There's a story idea here: a big, strapping cowboy named Wind and a helpless li'l lady named Rain...

 

[NotWise]

Its short, only two pages, but it was the second thing I published here and the grammar is...um...shoddy. Literally learning to write on the fly.

I also-and I cringe about it now-use the big cock trope, which I have never used outside of that series.

Shame....shame.....shame....

Hey! Big Cock is a tool in the tool box. It's no good if you don't use it.

 

[lovecraft68]

Hey! Big Cock is a tool in the tool box. It's no good if you don't use it.

Cock...tool....word play intended?

Besides its not the big cock I....used measurement. Grrrrrrrrrr

 

[NotWise]

Cock...tool....word play intended?

Besides its not the big cock I....used measurement. Grrrrrrrrrr

Not chic, but someone out there appreciated it.

 

[melimelissa]

This is lit, no one pays for anything.

I can imagine...

I wheeled my barrow seeking bread,
A surreal story you said
Involved going far
For worthless Bolívar
Though you'd offered Rial instead

The wind may sweep down on the plain
And worthless currencies remain
Devalued though you holler
There goes my worthless dollar
No dough now we've tariffed the grain

Méli

Rial is not worth anything at all in lit apparently

 

[lovecraft68]

I can imagine...

I wheeled my barrow seeking bread,
A surreal story you said
Involved going far
For worthless Bolívar
Though you'd offered Rial instead

The wind may sweep down on the plain
And worthless currencies remain
Devalued though you holler
There goes my worthless dollar
No dough now we've tariffed the grain

Méli

Rial is not worth anything at all in lit apparently

Well played.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think I might need to update my mental image of Oklahoma.

View attachment 2529590

Her: I'm just a girl who can't say "no."

Him: Well, shucks, I never heard of that. Don't worry, you can just shake your head instead.

Her: You're not getting this at all, cowboy.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I will read the story later and see exactly how immoral things get, but I think I'm going to have to poke at this premise right now.

Your story series is called MILF tails. That stands for Mum I'd Like to Fuck. Sounds pretty clear, but definitions vary, but from my perspective (which comes from American Pie where I first heard the term) is that a real MILF is not just a woman who has had a baby but specifically a friend's mother who you find sexually attractive.

Thus, moral or immoral, fucking the friend's mom is part of the sales pitch of the story. What's that quote? "It's difficult to get a man to understand something is wrong when his fetish depends on him not understanding it."

I've just published a watersports story and this is like me going "Silly readers not realizing that peeing on someone is inherently degrading."

 

[lovecraft68]

I will read the story later and see exactly how immoral things get, but I think I'm going to have to poke at this premise right now.

Your story series is called MILF tails. That stands for Mum I'd Like to Fuck. Sounds pretty clear, but definitions vary, but from my perspective (which comes from American Pie where I first heard the term) is that a real MILF is not just a woman who has had a baby but specifically a friend's mother who you find sexually attractive.

Thus, moral or immoral, fucking the friend's mom is part of the sales pitch of the story. What's that quote? "It's difficult to get a man to understand something is wrong when his fetish depends on him not understanding it."

I've just published a watersports story and this is like me going "Silly readers not realizing that peeing on someone is inherently degrading."

Milf does not have to be a friend's mother. Sorry if I'm not basing my erotica knowledge on a sophomoric movie the highlights of which are a kid fucking a pie and a girl slipping a flute up her Hoo-ha. I'm not high brow by any means, but I'm older than the 14 year olds this thing was aimed at,

Now 'My friend's Hot Mom" is a fetish within the Milf genre with the fact its a friend's mom adding an aura of....taboo. Taboo like people generally frown upon it?

Picture this conversation. You're 20 and a friend says to you "Man, I'm screwing this older woman and she'd hot as fuck!" you say "Good for you!" then he says "BTW, its your mom!" You now say? Right.

The conclusion I come to in this is I tend to write more to reality and real life ramifications than others do, because "Yay hot sex with no consequence" has never been all that much of an appeal. Why is their conflict in stories? To add some spice. What is the usual conflict in erotica? That for some reason the event should not happen.

BTW as far as being pissed on? How are you writing it? If someone wants to be pissed on people not into it would see it as humiliating, but if you want it? Not really, or maybe some of that is the thrill, but its like someone into pain "Don't threaten my with a good time."

All in the writing. Kinks/categories are a general canvas that we paint on as we choose.

 

[RetroFan]

I still laugh at a comment I received on my story series 'My Best Friend's Crazy Fat Sister' complaining that the characters were selfish, immoral and unlikable people.

Seriously, there's a story posted in the Fetish section of an online Erotic Fiction site called 'My Best Friend's Crazy Fat Sister' - by location and title alone does it sound like it's going to be some wholesome story like a Hallmark Christmas movie or a family friendly Miller-Boyett sitcom of the 1980s and 1990s? Would you really want the characters who inhabit a story called 'My Best Friend's Crazy Fat Sister' to be in your life for real?

 

[TheRedChamber]

Milf does not have to be a friend's mother. Sorry if I'm not basing my erotica knowledge on a sophomoric movie the highlights of which are a kid fucking a pie and a girl slipping a flute up her Hoo-ha. I'm not high brow by any means, but I'm older than the 14 year olds this thing was aimed at,

Regardless of your enjoyment of that movie or not, if you search for 'milf origin' then most sources cite American Pie as being the main source of popularizing the phrase. I saw it once at release 26 years ago and, in my early twenties, relatively enjoyed it. But as I say, definitions vary. In this case, your title and plot matched my own personal definition, so...

For what it's worth, my taxonomy of tropes would be 'Mature' at the top with sub-genres beneath it such as 'the Matron' (not necessarily a nurse but a much older woman, not necessarily still attractive, with some kind of position of care - housekeeper, B&B owner etc), 'the Teacher' (self-explanatory, but of course the student has just turned 18), 'the Mentor' (high powered, confident go-getter, still in great shape who works at the company that our MC is interning at). All these could techically be MILFs but to me 'MILF' is who you know in your circle - either because they know your own mother or because they are mothers to a peer (okay, technically it doesn't have to a friend, we can further subdivide into 'friend's mum', 'bully's mum', 'crush's mum' etc)

Now 'My friend's Hot Mom" is a fetish within the Milf genre with the fact its a friend's mom adding an aura of....taboo. Taboo like people generally frown upon it?

Picture this conversation. You're 20 and a friend says to you "Man, I'm screwing this older woman and she'd hot as fuck!" you say "Good for you!" then he says "BTW, its your mom!" You now say? Right.

And that right there, is the MILF fetish, surely - from their the cuck or the young bull (bullock?) perspective. So, just like incest, there's the taboo. But you don't expect the comments at the end of every incest story to say 'boy, it sure was wrong for that guy to sleep with his mum'

The conclusion I come to in this is I tend to write more to reality and real life ramifications than others do, because "Yay hot sex with no consequence" has never been all that much of an appeal. Why is their conflict in stories? To add some spice. What is the usual conflict in erotica? That for some reason the event should not happen.

I've always quite fancied writing an incest story where the father gets out of a X-year prison sentence for sleeping with his (adult obviously) daughter. Daughter greets him outside the prison wanting to continue where they left off, he says 'hell no, we get caught again and they're throwing away the key', she keeps turning up the heat and...well, I don't think this story is going to get a great reception in it's category.

BTW as far as being pissed on? How are you writing it? If someone wants to be pissed on people not into it would see it as humiliating, but if you want it? Not really, or maybe some of that is the thrill, but its like someone into pain "Don't threaten my with a good time."

All in the writing. Kinks/categories are a general canvas that we paint on as we choose.

In this particular story it's 'Pissing on someone to make a point' but, yes, it's watersports as part of a loving, caring, switching BDSM relationship.

 

[TheRedChamber]

As a quick adendum to my over analysis above I should also note that 'Yummy Mummy' is an inversion of MILF - someone your own (advanceding) age who you know because they are the mother of one of your own children's friends. Something which, monogamous or not, I've been noticing more and more in my own real life...

 

[lovecraft68]

The term Milf existed before that movie, that movie just brought it more to light just like incest stories existed decades before Kay Parker's taboo gave it a huge boost that we still see today.

There's also cougar which often gets misused as 'milf' a Milf is a mother a cougar is simply an older woman on the prowl for young guys and are often single and usually without kids, or her having kids isn't a factor at all.

I didn't start this thread to get into kink analysis.

But I think my point was more about what people take from stories over the story or genre itself. Now a category like incest or NC/MC has to remain 100% take it for what it is because end of the day, these things are 100% wrong, everyone knows that and knows it going in, so there's a preconceived feel about it, this is pure fantasy and don't try this shit at home.

But for most other categories and stores short of the fantasy categories like SCi Fi, Nonhuman and Erotic horror, these stories can happen as the situations can and do exist. For those stories when the characters are doing something that in real life people would frown on, I get curious about does anyone walk away thinking "Okay, I like the story, but when you think about it what so and so did was kind of crappy" and that was the reaction I was waiting to see if I would get and didn't see it all other than some "Really can't blame Josh for being mad" so maybe that's close to what I wanted.

I was diagnosed awhile back with 'hyper vigilance' I'll just say that its annoying as fuck sometimes because it leads to hyper focus and the inability to take things at face value and just keep pulling it apart and dissecting it. When its in effect I don't even watch movies because I'll spend 90 minutes yammering in my head about no, that could never happen, if they did that, this would happen. Its tiring, seriously its like your mind is a bag of cats someone just shook up. Maybe this is why I play these little games with my stories, or ones that I read. I mentioned getting bored over the years so look for ways to take more interest in my work and more interest in how its perceived beyond if people thought it was simply good or bad.

Maybe this whole idea falls under its not you, its me.

But this got a lot of responses and discussion and that's great because that's why this forum is here-other than procrastination and general goofiness- so thank you to all who responded.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've always quite fancied writing an incest story where the father gets out of a X-year prison sentence for sleeping with his (adult obviously) daughter. Daughter greets him outside the prison wanting to continue where they left off, he says 'hell no, we get caught again and they're throwing away the key', she keeps turning up the heat and...well, I don't think this story is going to get a great reception in it's category.

I think that's an excellent premise for an incest story, and I bet it could do very well. Because the taboo element--the essential conflict that gives the story sizzle--is heightened by the realistic prospect of criminal punishment, an element that is almost always missing from incest stories here. You could throw in a nasty, snooping probation officer who is constantly checking in and trying to catch them at it to give it more spice. I'd say, write it.

 

[Voboy]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but to me MILF does NOT imply any kind of preexisting relationship, as in "friend's mom" or "mom's BFF" or whatever. MILF status is about age and maturity, not relationship.

For instance, whenever I'm out walking or running, I see MILFs all over the place. I don't think of them that way because they're "Billy's mom." I think of them that way because they're attractive and pushing strollers.

 

[lovecraft68]

I don't have much of a dog in this fight, but to me MILF does NOT imply any kind of preexisting relationship, as in "friend's mom" or "mom's BFF" or whatever. MILF status is about age and maturity, not relationship.

For instance, whenever I'm out walking or running, I see MILFs all over the place. I don't think of them that way because they're "Billy's mom." I think of them that way because they're attractive and pushing strollers.

Just like I mentioned above about how Taboo has been shifted from a variety of things frowned upon in society to mean-in the porn world-to almost exclusively referring to incest, other terms have seen that as well.

You're right-technically-that a woman of any age with a child-can be a milf. The couple that bought the house across the street from us last year are in their twenties, the wife is a very attractive woman who I think is 26 or 27 and they have a three year old daughter. But if I pointed to her and said "Look at that milf" a lot of people are going to respond by saying "Nah, she's young" because over time porn has redefined that term to refer to older woman. I read something on another site where people complained about some actresses being too young for the role and their milf cut off is mid to upper thirties. There's also the complaint of the very young step mom, but yes, of course dad could marry a younger woman second time out.

So, its another example of you can say "This is what it is" then look around and see that at least in our genre, no, its different. If you put a story in Mature where one character is 20 and the other 32, that's an age gap, but they're going to tell you that's not what they want. They generally want just about the difference of a parent and an adult child. 18-21 with someone in their forties. Truly accurate, no. What they want and expect? Yes.

But this wasn't the point of the thread in anyway, the age wasn't the 'moral' issue, it was the behavior and lying.

Having said that, I did try to touch on the not so sexy realities in a large age gap couple. The woman closed shop and can't have kids, so is the young man okay with never having them? How will he see it when he's 40 and she's 65 and not the "hot milf" anymore, one further, he's 50 and she's 75 and he's far more a caretaker than a lover. Those are crappy realities, but they're rarely touched on in that kind of story. I wanted the readers to think behind "Hot cougar cub action" and...just think.

Could be the wrong venue for that it seems. But it was fun to try to spin something that way to be different

 

[Voboy]

If you put a story in Mature where one character is 20 and the other 32, that's an age gap, but they're going to tell you that's not what they want.

I routinely post stories like that in Mature, and they tend to do just fine. YMMV.

Mature, in my experience, is not only defined by the length of the gap. It's also defined by the status of the people in the relationship. A 20-year-old student and his 32-year-old professor are right in the Mature sweet spot, for example.

 

[NoTalentHack]

Cock...tool....word play intended?

Besides its not the big cock I....used measurement. Grrrrrrrrrr

https://media.tenor.com/5t7dwIkeSioAAAAM/shame-bell.gif