Teaching Children...

[SimplySouthern]

I have an upcoming PTO meeting to discuss dress codes in the school system and I needed some educated opinions. All the smart people I know are busy, so I thought I'd ask you guys. *grin*

I live in a relatively small town. Of course it isn't immune to violence, but violence in our schools isn't as prevalent as say, a larger city. At any rate, our school system would like to have mandatory dress codes at all the schools. (elementary, middle and high school) They want to compel the students to wear khaki pants or black pants (they can be jeans or dress pants) and either white, red, navy or black shirts, only solid colors and only these colors. The kicker to the whole issue is that these items of clothing cannot have any form of "advertising" on them. Essentially, they cannot wear a polo shirt with the little horse on the chest. No Nike gear because of the little check. None of those Lee Pipes jeans due to the tag on the side. Levis are out unless you remove the red tag hanging from the pocket.

They say the logic behind this is that some of the children cannot afford to wear the brand name attire and seeing this deflates their self esteem. "It isn't fair" the school board says. I say "poo". (how grownup of me) I fail to see the logic behind making everything "fair" for these kids all through school just to send them out into the "real world" where things simply aren't fair. I know that children can be cruel to one another, but I just cannot fathom that making them all wear the same clothing with no regard to name brand will make these kids any nicer to one another. I was teased in school, and I can't remember it ever being about the clothes I was wearing.

My bottom line is this. Are we doing the children a disservice by teaching them that life is hearts and flowers and if you don't have the money for something you can just expect everyone else to give it up as well?

Ideas, opinions?

 

[Svedish_Chef]

They say the logic behind this is that some of the children cannot afford to wear the brand name attire and seeing this deflates their self esteem. "It isn't fair" the school board says. I say "poo". (how grownup of me) I fail to see the logic behind making everything "fair" for these kids all through school just to send them out into the "real world" where things simply aren't fair. I know that children can be cruel to one another, but I just cannot fathom that making them all wear the same clothing with no regard to name brand will make these kids any nicer to one another. I was teased in school, and I can't remember it ever being about the clothes I was wearing.

Its just a crock... whatever happened to fucking school uniform. Last time I checked it had no advertising on it.

(I would've only teased you for being beautiful)

 

[MinkSoul]

in my opinion, unsubstantiated by any study that i know of...

peoplein this world are different and we should Celebrate that difference, not crush it.

To me a dress code says "you should conform to what We think is normal. If your different, We don't want you"



kind of a shitty (pardon the language but it is the only word that fits) thing to say to kids....eh?

 

[Todd]

Possibly

But if a child sees the unfairnesses that life is, that child may just basically say "To hell with it all" in his/her mind and not bother trying to make something of themselves.

On the other hand a child may see the same unfairnesses that life is and strive to be an overcomer and say "i can conquer my position" ANd mark it in thier minds to redouble thier efforts and make something of themselves.

The only problem if you can even get a general conscensus from statistics which you can't the former happens much more often than the latter.

Anothher factor to wearing labeled shirts to not allowed labled shirts is the fact that with out a complete disallowal{sp} of logos and labels, where do you draw a line whne hate statements start coming in on shirts? So to save the effort of saying what labels are appropriate and which are not you can save the hassle by disallowing them all.

 

[Orlanth]

I have an upcoming PTO meeting to discuss dress codes in the school system and I needed some educated opinions. All the smart people I know are busy, so I thought I'd ask you guys. *grin*

I live in a relatively small town. Of course it isn't immune to violence, but violence in our schools isn't as prevalent as say, a larger city. At any rate, our school system would like to have mandatory dress codes at all the schools. (elementary, middle and high school) They want to compel the students to wear khaki pants or black pants (they can be jeans or dress pants) and either white, red, navy or black shirts, only solid colors and only these colors. The kicker to the whole issue is that these items of clothing cannot have any form of "advertising" on them. Essentially, they cannot wear a polo shirt with the little horse on the chest. No Nike gear because of the little check. None of those Lee Pipes jeans due to the tag on the side. Levis are out unless you remove the red tag hanging from the pocket.

They say the logic behind this is that some of the children cannot afford to wear the brand name attire and seeing this deflates their self esteem. "It isn't fair" the school board says. I say "poo". (how grownup of me) I fail to see the logic behind making everything "fair" for these kids all through school just to send them out into the "real world" where things simply aren't fair. I know that children can be cruel to one another, but I just cannot fathom that making them all wear the same clothing with no regard to name brand will make these kids any nicer to one another. I was teased in school, and I can't remember it ever being about the clothes I was wearing.

My bottom line is this. Are we doing the children a disservice by teaching them that life is hearts and flowers and if you don't have the money for something you can just expect everyone else to give it up as well?

Ideas, opinions?

The school system wants to be fear? Well this do not sound fear to me. If one or more kids are teased because they don't wear this or that. Is bullshit. Its just a way for the teachers to have more power over the children.

I have only been out of school for 3 years. But when I was at school, I was the subject of everybodys jokes and insults. I have been called all type of things, but not once in my hole childhood was I teased for not wearing this or that. I never was teased about coming from a paw family. And I think this rule that the school is attempting to put forward is bullshit.

Attempting to stop kids teasing the other is hopless as trying to stop violince. The socity today needs to accept these things happpen. But I am not saying we should just let it happen, I belive the laws we have set are good as it is. I think if a child is teased, he or she should tell their parents, and the other kid resobasable for the act should be punsushed, how much depends on what he/she did.

Trying to do away with teasing by making rules like this is just stupid and pointless. For the world is a cruel and nasty place, and we should not be shielding our children from it, we should be preparing them to go out into the world.

 

[MinkSoul]

Possibly


Anothher factor to wearing labeled shirts to not allowed labled shirts is the fact that with out a complete disallowal{sp} of logos and labels, where do you draw a line whne hate statements start coming in on shirts? So to save the effort of saying what labels are appropriate and which are not you can save the hassle by disallowing them all.

how about dealing with the disease instead of hiding the symptomes?

Why is the kid displaying a hate statement?

i think kids are worth 'the hassle'.

 

[Todd]

how about dealing with the disease instead of hiding the symptomes?

Why is the kid displaying a hate statement?

i think kids are worth 'the hassle'.

I agree with you 100%, I think kids are worht the hassle of trying to find why they are displaying a hate statement. But in lue{sp} of all the recent school shootings in the past 2-3 years nation wide Canada and USA, It seems the schools would ratherhide the symptoms or ignore them rather than deal with them.

I seem to notice that a lot of the schools in after thought are saying through the guidance counselor "Yes we thought there was something wrong with the kid, but we didn't want to dirty our hands by doing our jobs and finding out what the problem is/was" Its a sad time we live in when children are not worth the effort to dirty our hands

 

[MinkSoul]

how about dealing with the disease instead of hiding the symptomes?

Why is the kid displaying a hate statement?

i think kids are worth 'the hassle'.

I agree with you 100%, I think kids are worht the hassle of trying to find why they are displaying a hate statement. But in lue{sp} of all the recent school shootings in the past 2-3 years nation wide Canada and USA, It seems the schools would ratherhide the symptoms or ignore them rather than deal with them.

I seem to notice that a lot of the schools in after thought are saying through the guidance counselor "Yes we thought there was something wrong with the kid, but we didn't want to dirty our hands by doing our jobs and finding out what the problem is/was" Its a sad time we live in when children are not worth the effort to dirty our hands

i take it that is a 'No' vote on dress codes in schools...

 

[Todd]

i take it that is a 'No' vote on dress codes in schools...

Only if the schools and parents are willing to open thier eyes and look at the symptoms and do something about it. Until then we might as well cover it up with a dress code and continue to ignore the problem.

 

[Orlanth]

Since no one agrees or dissagrees with my augument posted above, I'll just go cruel back under my rock.

 

[DarlingBri]

From a purely practical POV...

it is very hard these days to find clothing that does NOT carry any logo at all. I'm not a lable buyer, but my wardrobe is filled with items with tiny tags, logos, badges, etc.

In the UK, school children have uniforms. I hate them, passionately, and not because they're ugly, but because they're sexist. They're also ugly, but that's not the point.

What I'm getting at is that all these children's clothes are bought from various uniform suppliers. There's some latitude, and there are skirts, trousers, button-downs, pullovers and even t-shirts. It's not a particulalry expensive way to buy clothes, and there are schools sales at the end of the year where parents can buy uniforms other children have grown out of, second hand.

I would think that if your school board isn't willing to adopt this approach, then the plan is doomed. Clothing without *any* lables is just too hard to find except from uniform suppliers, and kids WILL find a way to work around the "no lables" rule and make a clothing heirarchy unless they're all shopping from the same selection. That's just kids.

This approach *is* used in the US, particularly in boarding schools and at summer camps, just for your reference.

[Edited by DarlingBri on 04-15-2001 at 08:31 AM]

 

[MinkSoul]

i take it that is a 'No' vote on dress codes in schools...

Only if the schools and parents are willing to open thier eyes and look at the symptoms and do something about it. Until then we might as well cover it up with a dress code and continue to ignore the problem.

and watch our Children Die on the six oclock news?

No Not Good Enough...

it's not just the schools and parents problem.....

it's Everyones problem....

You... Me.....that guy on the street... the woman who just drove by... E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E


We don't need more regulation..... we need more understanding... not babysitting... not hand holding ....Understanding!!

by the way Macbeth... i agree with you, to a point, the world ain't as shitty as you seem to see it....

there are pockets of beauty you just have to look for them...

 

[DarlingBri]

We don't need more regulation..... we need more understanding... not babysitting... not hand holding ....Understanding!!

OK, fine, but I'm approaching this question from a practical viewpoint. Nobody is going to disagree that the world needs more love, but that doesn't address the school outfitting dilemma.

 

[Orlanth]

by the way Macbeth... i agree with you, to a point, the world ain't as shitty as you seem to see it....

there are pockets of beauty you just have to look for them...

Well, from my point of view and all I have been put throw, I think the human kind is just a plague to good old mother earth.

Believe me, you would never understand the pain I have gone throw. By no means am I saying I have gone throw the worst.

 

[Guest]

there are pockets of beauty you just have to look for
them...

This is going to seem strange... but...

http://www.literotica.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=29474
Something like this

 

[MinkSoul]

it's not the clothes.... it's the attitude...


just because a kid starts wearing a uniform doesn't mean they don't want to kill someone...

we are wasting our time telling kids what to wear instead of spending it finding out what is going on with them...

 

[Orlanth]

*Runs back to his on thread, the one sentice story*

 

[Todd]

i take it that is a 'No' vote on dress codes in schools...

Only if the schools and parents are willing to open thier eyes and look at the symptoms and do something about it. Until then we might as well cover it up with a dress code and continue to ignore the problem.

and watch our Children Die on the six oclock news?

No Not Good Enough...

it's not just the schools and parents problem.....

it's Everyones problem....

You... Me.....that guy on the street... the woman who just drove by... E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E


We don't need more regulation..... we need more understanding... not babysitting... not hand holding ....Understanding!!

by the way Macbeth... i agree with you, to a point, the world ain't as shitty as you seem to see it....

there are pockets of beauty you just have to look for them...

Thats what I was getting at, if you read my words and thier meaning. If we are not going to try and understand the kids and do something with that understanding, then we might as wellcaover it up with a dress code and turn a blind eye as they die on the 6 oclock news.

 

[DarlingBri]

Yes fine, agreed.

However, the fact that your kid DOES wear a uniform means that nobody is going to mug him for his Nikes. He's not wearing any.

Practical.

 

[OUTSIDER]

Back in the day, when I was a school boy 79/84 for my last school, we had to wear a uniform and although I never liked it then I can now see how good it was.
The uniform was a white shirt, black trousers (not jean's or combat's but real trouser's) which are for the most part cheaper than jeans (at least in this country), black shoes again no trainers (sneakers I think you call them) and a dark blue or black blazer with the school badge on.....oh and the school tie.
The school tie and blazer badge could be bought only at the school and cost very little, now things are somewhat different the kids all wear a blue sweat top with the school badge printed on, and no blazer anymore, they can wear shoes or trainers as long as the trainers are solid black with no designs in other colours, and the kids all seem rather happy with the arrangement.
But in the long run while you cut out some of the snobbery out by making the kids wear uniform, it does not go away it just becomes more inverted and small, but on the whole I like kids to wear school uniform.

 

[MinkSoul]

by the way Macbeth... i agree with you, to a point, the world ain't as shitty as you seem to see it....

there are pockets of beauty you just have to look for them...

Well, from my point of view and all I have been put throw, I think the human kind is just a plague to good old mother earth.

Believe me, you would never understand the pain I have gone throw. By no means am I saying I have gone throw the worst.

i'm not discounting what you have gone through and i'm sorry that life has been so rough for you Macbeth.

if i could use you as an example...

if someone had seen what was happening to you and gotten you out of that situation i think your outlook on life would be Very Different then what it is right now...

 

[His Whimsicality]

I somehow doubt that the displaying of brand names is the core of problems at school. And, ironically, the families who don´t have the money to buy their kids brand name clothes would now have to spend that money on their kids´ school uniforms...

 

[Orlanth]

if someone had seen what was happening to you and gotten you out of that situation i think your outlook on life would be Very Different then what it is right now...

I agree, my view on life would be diffrent. But still I went throw it all. And I will give you an idea of just a very small part of what I went throw.


I had a major back operation, (spinal fusin) back in 1995. Well I woke up in the operation, all I can say about that is "you don't want to know". Then, I had lost 100% control of my body for weeks, it looked as I was in a comer, but I was not. I can still remember it like yesterday how I was abused by the nursess night afther night, not going in to any more detail. That is only a small tiny part of what I went throw.

Of course I have 100% control of my body again, thank god.

[Edited by Macbeth on 04-15-2001 at 10:25 AM]

 

[MinkSoul]

Yes fine, agreed.

However, the fact that your kid DOES wear a uniform means that nobody is going to mug him for his Nikes. He's not wearing any.

Practical.

DamIt Bri.... i was on a tirade and you bring up 'Practical'...



yes i agree with you on that point...

back to the tirade...

the kids today are going through Hell and we think telling them what to wear is going to solv the problem?

anyone else see something wrong with this?

 

[Orlanth]

the kids today are going through Hell and we think telling them what to wear is going to solv the problem?
anyone else see something wrong with this?

I do